GS460 no go, engine doesn't fit...
03-01-06, 07:11 PM
#31
Originally Posted by MPLexus301
You may be right and there are parts of your post that I agree with, however, there are still people who will not buy hybrid over gas, I'm one of them and I know several more. Right now hybrid technology looks great but it's unproven for long term durability and reliability, gas powered motors are more reassuring. The GS 450h is a great alternative for the people who want to try something new, but Lexus needs to keep a V8 powered car to woo those who want conventional V8 power because they will simply go elsewhere if Lexus does not provide..
need that GS460. From my standpoint why do you need a 4 door sedan to go any
faster than 0-60 in 5.2s? That is overkill like Benz's 600HP AMG.
About reliability, can't the same be said about the direct+port injection technology?
There is no long term reliability data on this new 4.6L engine either. If reliability is
the thing I trust the 4.3L V8 that's been around a while much more than either of these
new engines.
03-01-06, 09:10 PM
#32
Well, one, I havent been screaming for more performance. Except out of the IS250.
while a V6, v6 hybrid and v8 may not seem confusing. a GS350, GS450H and a GS460... where the GS460 is cheaper and faster than the 450.. may confuse the average joe.
People may have been screaming for a V8 or more power than the IS300/GS300 could deliver, but that is because those cars produced 220HP, lexus has a 300HP V6 and a 340HP v6 hybrid..probably they can tune more power out of the 450H motor.
The market is changing rapidly, gas prices are sky high, and while a V8 may be more fuel efficient, it still has a stigma of fuel consumption. People are getting away from that, because they know how bad prices can be.
The V8 will go into other cars if not the GS... LS, LX, SC and perhaps a toyota... who knows.
while a V6, v6 hybrid and v8 may not seem confusing. a GS350, GS450H and a GS460... where the GS460 is cheaper and faster than the 450.. may confuse the average joe.
People may have been screaming for a V8 or more power than the IS300/GS300 could deliver, but that is because those cars produced 220HP, lexus has a 300HP V6 and a 340HP v6 hybrid..probably they can tune more power out of the 450H motor.
The market is changing rapidly, gas prices are sky high, and while a V8 may be more fuel efficient, it still has a stigma of fuel consumption. People are getting away from that, because they know how bad prices can be.
The V8 will go into other cars if not the GS... LS, LX, SC and perhaps a toyota... who knows.
Last edited by tqlla3k; 03-01-06 at 09:21 PM.
03-01-06, 09:17 PM
#33
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A GS460 (if they make it) will probably weigh at least a couple hundred pounds less than the 450h. So it'll probably be a better handler.
Also, IF the LS460 gets "mid-20s" mpg like they claim, the GS460 should get similar to that. If the GS460 gets the 8 speed transmission, it should actually get better mileage than "mid-20s", since the GS460 should weigh a lot less.
The mpg difference between the GS450h and the GS460 may only be 2 to 3 mpg.
Also, IF the LS460 gets "mid-20s" mpg like they claim, the GS460 should get similar to that. If the GS460 gets the 8 speed transmission, it should actually get better mileage than "mid-20s", since the GS460 should weigh a lot less.
The mpg difference between the GS450h and the GS460 may only be 2 to 3 mpg.
03-01-06, 09:19 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by tqlla3k
The GS450h has 339hp, a 0-60 of 5.2sec, and gets a combined fuel rating of 35MPG, who needs a V8?
The GS450h has a combined rating of 28 mpg.
03-01-06, 09:22 PM
#35
Sorry, I was reading some UK site, its been fixed. honestly though, how fast does the GS have to be to "Compete" with the 5 series?
Also, what is the combined rating on the IS350, I think its in the low-mid 20s... I would be very very shocked if the 460 motor pulling an LS could get similar MPG.
It could happen, but I would be shocked.
Also, what is the combined rating on the IS350, I think its in the low-mid 20s... I would be very very shocked if the 460 motor pulling an LS could get similar MPG.
It could happen, but I would be shocked.
Last edited by tqlla3k; 03-01-06 at 09:30 PM.
03-01-06, 10:49 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
If the GS450h sells out then there is a better chance..
that Lexus will someday make the GS460. The GS V8's have traditionally not sold well for Lexus. The Past is not always Prologue but I can see that they won't continue to beat a dead horse. There has to be a market to serve for Lexus to be interested. Meanwhile the cadre of enthusiasts will have to "make do" with the GS450h. BTW, there is nothing more reliable than a magnet. I have asked Lexus to have simulated high decibels of Hemi sounds pumped into the interior to match the acceleration of the 450h. Some vibration could be simulated in the seats easily. Yeah and make the suspension have a "harsh" setting too. What's playing at the Drive-in?
Rock
Rock
03-01-06, 10:52 PM
#37
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I mean, the GS 400 became the GS 430 when the 3LS became th eLS 430 with the new engine. I figure the same will happen again.
Even though the GS 450h may make more sense, as in V-8 power, I-4 economy, there is no substitute for a V-8 powered GS.
I mean the GS was to be the bad boy sedan of the line, and its like they are giving that to the IS. But no offense, a V-8 is NEEDED. I don't care if they sell 200 a month. It provides a HUGE image and halo effect throughout the GS range and brand.
For Lexus to take on BMW and Benz as they have stated so many times, they NEED a V-8 GS. Not want but NEED to offer one.
Even though the GS 450h may make more sense, as in V-8 power, I-4 economy, there is no substitute for a V-8 powered GS.
I mean the GS was to be the bad boy sedan of the line, and its like they are giving that to the IS. But no offense, a V-8 is NEEDED. I don't care if they sell 200 a month. It provides a HUGE image and halo effect throughout the GS range and brand.
For Lexus to take on BMW and Benz as they have stated so many times, they NEED a V-8 GS. Not want but NEED to offer one.
03-01-06, 11:15 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
1Sicklex, I'm feeling yah...
it's just that Lexus is already taking on Mercedes and BMW and just pulling away farther and farther each year. This year 35,000 more than Bimmer, 75,000 more than Mercedes-Benz. It is they that are trying to keep Lexus in sight. Now Lexus has its gaze focused on Europe. That place might be Hybrid heaven in about 5 years or so. IS250's/IS220d's everywhere too. The German public already polled by JD Power said that Lexus was the most reliable make in Germany! I love the M5 and its V10. The interior is over the top but so what? The E55 is a joy to behold. I would like Lexus to make me one of those scary fast coches so I could run in those special No speed limit deals out in Utah or Nevada. Turn off the limiter! Run the Salt Flats, whatever. Before I die....I'm begging now......It's the car gene prolapse.
Rock
Rock
03-02-06, 01:07 AM
#39
Originally Posted by thenod
Am I missing something or is it definite that the GS won't one day have a V8 hybrid. I know for a fact that the new LS will have a V8 hybrid. Why not use the same motor for the GS? By the way, I checked out the new LS LWB up close and personal and.....WHAT A CAR!!!!!
03-02-06, 03:45 AM
#40
Originally Posted by MPLexus301
You may be right and there are parts of your post that I agree with, however, there are still people who will not buy hybrid over gas, I'm one of them and I know several more. Right now hybrid technology looks great but it's unproven for long term durability and reliability, gas powered motors are more reassuring. The GS 450h is a great alternative for the people who want to try something new, but Lexus needs to keep a V8 powered car to woo those who want conventional V8 power because they will simply go elsewhere if Lexus does not provide..
03-02-06, 03:49 AM
#41
Originally Posted by marshmallo
About reliability, can't the same be said about the direct+port injection technology?
There is no long term reliability data on this new 4.6L engine either. If reliability is
the thing I trust the 4.3L V8 that's been around a while much more than either of these
new engines.
There is no long term reliability data on this new 4.6L engine either. If reliability is
the thing I trust the 4.3L V8 that's been around a while much more than either of these
new engines.
03-02-06, 06:28 AM
#42
Originally Posted by CK6Speed
I'd like to add another factor as why many are still not ready to jump to hybrids. Modability. Right now the technology is still too new and no aftermarket company that I know of has even attempted to modify a hybrid for more power whether it be the electric section or the motor itself. That alone is one reason I'm not ready to jump on the hybrid bandwagon for anything other than pure economy which cars like the RX400H and and GS450H are not.
I think Lexus is trying to give people more than just power for the money. THey are giving them more power and better fuel efficiency.
339HP, 28MPG combined, 0-60 in 5.2. What more does the GS need to compete with the 5Series or the E class sedan?
03-02-06, 06:39 AM
#43
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by Rockville
it's just that Lexus is already taking on Mercedes and BMW and just pulling away farther and farther each year. This year 35,000 more than Bimmer, 75,000 more than Mercedes-Benz. It is they that are trying to keep Lexus in sight. Now Lexus has its gaze focused on Europe. That place might be Hybrid heaven in about 5 years or so. IS250's/IS220d's everywhere too. The German public already polled by JD Power said that Lexus was the most reliable make in Germany! I love the M5 and its V10. The interior is over the top but so what? The E55 is a joy to behold. I would like Lexus to make me one of those scary fast coches so I could run in those special No speed limit deals out in Utah or Nevada. Turn off the limiter! Run the Salt Flats, whatever. Before I die....I'm begging now......It's the car gene prolapse.
Rock
Rock
Last edited by Gojirra99; 03-02-06 at 06:42 AM.
03-02-06, 07:39 AM
#44
I dont think the GS is outsold because of its lack of a Flagship models. Its because of its lack of power. It would also be nice if there was an MT
However, next years GS's will Have a large jump in power compared to the current models. Even the Base GS350 will be very powerful.
GS300/430
245/300
GS350/450H
(about)300/339
However, next years GS's will Have a large jump in power compared to the current models. Even the Base GS350 will be very powerful.
GS300/430
245/300
GS350/450H
(about)300/339
03-02-06, 08:19 AM
#45
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I agree with most of you that Lexus needs a V-8 in thier GS line-up but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I my wild guess is that it will come out in spring 2007...possible as a 2008 model. I think it will comes out around 6 months after the LS460 hits the streets. When Lexus comes out with the hybrid in May, I don't see them one upping themselves 4 months later with the 460.
Here is my dilemna. I need to get a car within 2 months because my current car is having issues. I can get a GS430 for about 2k above invoice which sounds tempting but I don't want to buy it knowing the 460 is 6 months away. If I knew it was 6 months away then I could tough it out but if it's 1 year I would just get the 430 now. When will we find out info about this? Any thoughts?
Scott
Here is my dilemna. I need to get a car within 2 months because my current car is having issues. I can get a GS430 for about 2k above invoice which sounds tempting but I don't want to buy it knowing the 460 is 6 months away. If I knew it was 6 months away then I could tough it out but if it's 1 year I would just get the 430 now. When will we find out info about this? Any thoughts?
Scott