Lexus GS350 or Acura RL?
09-09-06, 09:34 PM
#46
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The GS now has VDIM disable, which was the mags main issue with the car. Also, there are GS 450h's used as race cars, we cannot say that for the RL. .
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...highlight=450H
Though I am sure to the normal human, SH-AWD is just a superior tech, makes tough driving easy to the average driver and in reviews, the RL and 2 SUVs, MDX and RDX have gotten very postive words.
(I am bugging Hawks63, we go way back to the old Acuraworld days).
09-09-06, 09:48 PM
#47
Yes, b/c those are the best sources for auto info! The GS now has VDIM disable, which was the mags main issue with the car. Also, there are GS 450h's used as race cars, we cannot say that for the RL.
.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...highlight=450H
Though I am sure to the normal human, SH-AWD is just a superior tech, makes tough driving easy to the average driver and in reviews, the RL and 2 SUVs, MDX and RDX have gotten very postive words.
(I am bugging Hawks63, we go way back to the old Acuraworld days).
The GS now has VDIM disable, which was the mags main issue with the car. Also, there are GS 450h's used as race cars, we cannot say that for the RL. .
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...highlight=450H
Though I am sure to the normal human, SH-AWD is just a superior tech, makes tough driving easy to the average driver and in reviews, the RL and 2 SUVs, MDX and RDX have gotten very postive words.
(I am bugging Hawks63, we go way back to the old Acuraworld days).
Those car mags though are tossing those cars a lot harder than most of us are, so maybe .... Yes!
The comparing the RL to the 450H is apples to oranges. Given it's powertrain configuration it might as well be considered a different vehicle. I don't think any of those race cars are GS300 (or 350) AWD configurations.
Again, I'm not knocking the GS, it's a gorgeous car and I almost bought it.
I'm just offering documented reviews and some objective sources when I speak of the auto mags, as a opposed to the "Buy the Lexus 'cause it's best".
Last edited by Gohawks63; 09-10-06 at 04:35 AM.
09-11-06, 10:04 AM
#48
... have you noticed ES350 just conveniantly "borrowed" the front end of RL? Also in Acura's case, at least RL has a different engine, transmission, and drive train than Honda Accord; Lexus just keeps the same engine, transmission and drive train from Camry, repackage it and call it ES350...Using your logic, ES350 is more of a derivative of Toyota Camry V6 than RL to a Honda.
Also, the Accord isn't going to have the RL powertrain because that would totally kill the RL (Acura flagship) if an Accord had the same powertrain. That would be like putting the LS powertrain into a Camry, not going to happen.
I'll agree on the derivative of the ES to the Camry. The ES sells as well as the Camry, while the RL doesn't sell anywhere as well as the Accord... :P
09-11-06, 10:24 PM
#50
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I think the ES350 front just looks more like a carryover of the ES330, which then would mean Acura copied Lexus since 330 came out first...
Also, the Accord isn't going to have the RL powertrain because that would totally kill the RL (Acura flagship) if an Accord had the same powertrain. That would be like putting the LS powertrain into a Camry, not going to happen.
I'll agree on the derivative of the ES to the Camry. The ES sells as well as the Camry, while the RL doesn't sell anywhere as well as the Accord... :P
Also, the Accord isn't going to have the RL powertrain because that would totally kill the RL (Acura flagship) if an Accord had the same powertrain. That would be like putting the LS powertrain into a Camry, not going to happen.
I'll agree on the derivative of the ES to the Camry. The ES sells as well as the Camry, while the RL doesn't sell anywhere as well as the Accord... :P
However, you logic is 100% correct. And both cars really have always had horizontal grills. The ES has had it since 1992 and has grown each generation to the huge grill it has now.
The RL started out with a huge horizontal grill in 1996 and had it revised in 1999 and the new RL continues.
So, no one really copied anyone.
09-12-06, 09:33 AM
#51
the other day and asked a few questions about the ES350 and the GS300 we had on display. I asked her if she was replacing her RL and why so soon? She replied that this was her third Acura that she had owned after having a couple of TL's. She said she was very upset with her RL and was negotiating a buyback. She previously was happy with both of the TL's but now she wanted to see what Lexus had to offer. The interior of the ES350 makes the RL look shabby in comparison in my opinion....I told her that the GS was more in character with the RL since it was more of a sport sedan and came with AWD....
The GS350 will just own the RL now that it has equal displacement and the Gen. 5 Nav. Your parents will appreciate the clarity of the VGA screen that can easily be seen with polarized sunglasses on. Try that on the RL and you will just squint..The touch screen is easier to use than the joystick too. The styling of the RL is a direct derivative of a Honda that's why it is referred to as a Honda and they are not easily distinguishable. The RL has had rave reviews and still Acura has a hard time selling it in the 50K class. Now they have retreated and reduced the price to find equilibrium. Of course this hurts the original early adopters that paid sticker. The RL is the top of the line Acura and it competes with the middle and lower cars in the Lexus lineup, the ES350 and now the GS350. The ES350 has more luxury appeal than the RL and the GS350 now has more performance. Lexus continues to be number one in both initial quality (6 years) and reliability (12 years) so you can't go wrong picking the Lexus. The Tahara factory is ranked number one in the world in manufacturing quality.
Tell us more about your parent's taste in cars, their needs and wants. Steer them away from the Acura....This is a Lexus forum of course.
Rock
The GS350 will just own the RL now that it has equal displacement and the Gen. 5 Nav. Your parents will appreciate the clarity of the VGA screen that can easily be seen with polarized sunglasses on. Try that on the RL and you will just squint..The touch screen is easier to use than the joystick too. The styling of the RL is a direct derivative of a Honda that's why it is referred to as a Honda and they are not easily distinguishable. The RL has had rave reviews and still Acura has a hard time selling it in the 50K class. Now they have retreated and reduced the price to find equilibrium. Of course this hurts the original early adopters that paid sticker. The RL is the top of the line Acura and it competes with the middle and lower cars in the Lexus lineup, the ES350 and now the GS350. The ES350 has more luxury appeal than the RL and the GS350 now has more performance. Lexus continues to be number one in both initial quality (6 years) and reliability (12 years) so you can't go wrong picking the Lexus. The Tahara factory is ranked number one in the world in manufacturing quality.
Tell us more about your parent's taste in cars, their needs and wants. Steer them away from the Acura....This is a Lexus forum of course.
Rock
Let me start by saying I am back on this forum because I have been thinking about trading my M and Maxima for one sedan. I no longer commute so I no longer need both. Unfortunately, my equity is tied up in the M so it will have to go if I am to get rid of the Max.
With that in mind, I have once again been considering Lexus and have test driven the ES350, GS350 and IS350. When the new GS was first introduced I owned an '05 Acura RL. I test drove the GS (300 and 430) and the RL actually felt more lively than either, perhaps due to the throttle-by-wire delay in the GS. I also felt the RL used more upscale materials in the interior. Fast forward to today... the GS350 seems to be more responsive, but I still think the interior looks spartan, even compared to the IS.
I really like the styling of the ES350 (especially in SGM w/ Graphite wheels), but it seems that over half of the owners in the ES350 forum are reporting strange engine noises, transmission "flaring", excessive wind noise and rattles. The RL certainly had its first-year issues, but they seem to have been resolved and Lexus is just going through the teething pains with the ES, so how can you say "steer them away from Acura"?
Re: the IS, it is a great car, but for my purposes it is just too small.
True, the RL's styling is very subdued, the brand is not as upscale as Lexus and they've done a poor job marketing the car, but it can easily compete with just about any mid-level Lexus product. And from my experience the nav w/ the **** is far easier to use than the one in the Lexus. (It is also more user-friendly than the one in my M). For one, you can program it while driving. Also, the XM display shows 16 characters rather than 10 as in the Lexus and Infiniti (which seems to be important to some). It is just more intuitive. I also found it easy to read, polarized or non-polarized sunglasses.
Again, we are all entitled to our opinions and I've valued your input in this forum, but this time around I can't buy into your statements. The Lexus cars are great, but they really don't give up anything to the RL, except maybe styling.
Last edited by dseag2; 09-12-06 at 09:39 AM.
09-12-06, 12:25 PM
#52
I know this is a Lexus forum and I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with your comments.
Let me start by saying I am back on this forum because I have been thinking about trading my M and Maxima for one sedan. I no longer commute so I no longer need both. Unfortunately, my equity is tied up in the M so it will have to go if I am to get rid of the Max.
With that in mind, I have once again been considering Lexus and have test driven the ES350, GS350 and IS350. When the new GS was first introduced I owned an '05 Acura RL. I test drove the GS (300 and 430) and the RL actually felt more lively than either, perhaps due to the throttle-by-wire delay in the GS. I also felt the RL used more upscale materials in the interior. Fast forward to today... the GS350 seems to be more responsive, but I still think the interior looks spartan, even compared to the IS.
I really like the styling of the ES350 (especially in SGM w/ Graphite wheels), but it seems that over half of the owners in the ES350 forum are reporting strange engine noises, transmission "flaring", excessive wind noise and rattles. The RL certainly had its first-year issues, but they seem to have been resolved and Lexus is just going through the teething pains with the ES, so how can you say "steer them away from Acura"?
Re: the IS, it is a great car, but for my purposes it is just too small.
True, the RL's styling is very subdued, the brand is not as upscale as Lexus and they've done a poor job marketing the car, but it can easily compete with just about any mid-level Lexus product. And from my experience the nav w/ the **** is far easier to use than the one in the Lexus. (It is also more user-friendly than the one in my M). For one, you can program it while driving. Also, the XM display shows 16 characters rather than 10 as in the Lexus and Infiniti (which seems to be important to some). It is just more intuitive. I also found it easy to read, polarized or non-polarized sunglasses.
Again, we are all entitled to our opinions and I've valued your input in this forum, but this time around I can't buy into your statements. The Lexus cars are great, but they really don't give up anything to the RL, except maybe styling.
Let me start by saying I am back on this forum because I have been thinking about trading my M and Maxima for one sedan. I no longer commute so I no longer need both. Unfortunately, my equity is tied up in the M so it will have to go if I am to get rid of the Max.
With that in mind, I have once again been considering Lexus and have test driven the ES350, GS350 and IS350. When the new GS was first introduced I owned an '05 Acura RL. I test drove the GS (300 and 430) and the RL actually felt more lively than either, perhaps due to the throttle-by-wire delay in the GS. I also felt the RL used more upscale materials in the interior. Fast forward to today... the GS350 seems to be more responsive, but I still think the interior looks spartan, even compared to the IS.
I really like the styling of the ES350 (especially in SGM w/ Graphite wheels), but it seems that over half of the owners in the ES350 forum are reporting strange engine noises, transmission "flaring", excessive wind noise and rattles. The RL certainly had its first-year issues, but they seem to have been resolved and Lexus is just going through the teething pains with the ES, so how can you say "steer them away from Acura"?
Re: the IS, it is a great car, but for my purposes it is just too small.
True, the RL's styling is very subdued, the brand is not as upscale as Lexus and they've done a poor job marketing the car, but it can easily compete with just about any mid-level Lexus product. And from my experience the nav w/ the **** is far easier to use than the one in the Lexus. (It is also more user-friendly than the one in my M). For one, you can program it while driving. Also, the XM display shows 16 characters rather than 10 as in the Lexus and Infiniti (which seems to be important to some). It is just more intuitive. I also found it easy to read, polarized or non-polarized sunglasses.
Again, we are all entitled to our opinions and I've valued your input in this forum, but this time around I can't buy into your statements. The Lexus cars are great, but they really don't give up anything to the RL, except maybe styling.
Appreciate your post, I'm sure my opinions were discounted since I currently own an '06 RL. Your opinions may be taken more seriously since you no longer own one.
As you and I have stated, the RL's biggest problem is marketing. Acura has no clue on how to market in this segment, that said, the disappointment in sales is due to that and not the car itself. Most people who chose the RL over a competitor, drove both, did the research, compared options and specs, and then made their decision. Those purchases were rarely done solely on brand loyalty.
09-12-06, 01:21 PM
#53
FYI, the RL is also drive-by-wire. As a result, any difference in responsiveness is most likely attributed to programming and calibration.
Appreciate your post, I'm sure my opinions were discounted since I currently own an '06 RL. Your opinions may be taken more seriously since you no longer own one.
As you and I have stated, the RL's biggest problem is marketing. Acura has no clue on how to market in this segment, that said, the disappointment in sales is due to that and not the car itself. Most people who chose the RL over a competitor, drove both, did the research, compared options and specs, and then made their decision. Those purchases were rarely done solely on brand loyalty.
Appreciate your post, I'm sure my opinions were discounted since I currently own an '06 RL. Your opinions may be taken more seriously since you no longer own one.
As you and I have stated, the RL's biggest problem is marketing. Acura has no clue on how to market in this segment, that said, the disappointment in sales is due to that and not the car itself. Most people who chose the RL over a competitor, drove both, did the research, compared options and specs, and then made their decision. Those purchases were rarely done solely on brand loyalty.
FYI, I traded the RL for the M45 primarily for the V-8 and pure RWD handling, although SH-AWD was a kick. I would have never traded it for an M35 or a GS300 as I still felt the interior quality of the RL (materials, guages, nav) was better than either and neither had a significant performance advantage.
I really like Lexus' new L-Finesse styling and I've always thought the new GS was one of the nicest looking cars in its class, but I just can't warm up to the rest of it. For me, the perfect car would a GS with an RL interior and M driving dynamics.
Since that doesn't exist, you made a good choice!
09-12-06, 01:50 PM
#54
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"the perfect car would a GS with an RL interior and M driving dynamics"
Actually a pretty close match to this perfect car is out and it is the GS 450h. I traded my 05 RL for one in late April primarily for the improved low end torque along with improved gas mileage. The 450h has torque all over the place and not just low end but the RL had decent torque only after take off. Until the 450h became available I would have never considered trading the RL for another 6 cylinder car. The RL had no faults in my experience other than mediocre low end torque. Zero reqrets going with the 450h over the RL but I frankly would not consider the GS 350 over the RL unless one just preferred the styling of the GS. Performance-wise I would have stayed with the RL in that comparo.
Actually a pretty close match to this perfect car is out and it is the GS 450h. I traded my 05 RL for one in late April primarily for the improved low end torque along with improved gas mileage. The 450h has torque all over the place and not just low end but the RL had decent torque only after take off. Until the 450h became available I would have never considered trading the RL for another 6 cylinder car. The RL had no faults in my experience other than mediocre low end torque. Zero reqrets going with the 450h over the RL but I frankly would not consider the GS 350 over the RL unless one just preferred the styling of the GS. Performance-wise I would have stayed with the RL in that comparo.
09-12-06, 03:29 PM
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09-12-06, 03:39 PM
#56
Same here, from the IS, all the way up to the new LS, I think everyone of those models represent some of the sharpest designs to ever come from Lexus.
09-12-06, 03:47 PM
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"OK, then "the perfect car would be a GS with an RL interior and M driving dynamics and LS trunk space."
Good point and LOL. The 450h trunk space is just fine for my needs but we sure won't be taking any family trips in it - unless we tow an minivan behind it.
Good point and LOL. The 450h trunk space is just fine for my needs but we sure won't be taking any family trips in it - unless we tow an minivan behind it.
09-12-06, 05:50 PM
#58
The perfect car would be a LS460L with a Ferrari turbocharged 12, Diablo driving dynamics, Lincoln Towncar trunk, with Civic hybrid fuel efficiency of 50 city/50 hwy on regular grade fuel.
09-12-06, 07:02 PM
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Well, as long as we are dreaming, the perfect car for me would be a four-door Aston Martin DB9 derivative with a GS price tag.
For now, I'll have to settle for the GS350...
For now, I'll have to settle for the GS350...