GS350 vs 530i vs E350
10-15-06, 04:02 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
I have to burst your bubble about..
German leading edge technology vs. Lexus Doug_999 but Lexus had the near- infrared heads-up display three years ago on the LX470 which gave you a 500ft range ahead and had the resolution of a CCD video camera. We found that owners seldom used it and it made the windshield cost $3,000. Toyota/Lexus spends 28 million dollars a day on research and development for innovation. I can recite a long list of features unavailable on BMW, Mercedes, and Audi that are available on Lexus. Some are licensed to other manufacturers like Hybrid Synergy Drive. The rationale that the more advanced technologies are less reliable is bunk. One of my customers has an '06 BMW 525 which drives and looks beautiful but is a technological disaster. His whole dash panel would just go out completely and it took about 2 months and 4 visits to fix. BMW's and Benz will sit in the stall getting numerous patches downloaded to fix glitches in their systems. We don't have that at Lexus. There are definitely things that BMW excels at that could be arguably better than Lexus but technology, ergonomics and reliability are not their strong suits for comparison.
JD Power surveys the German auto market and Lexus leads in reliability there too. Consumer Reports is kind to the 3 series but the instance of repair on BMW is twice that of Lexus.
I would advise our prospective buyer to drive all of the cars on the type of roads they will use it on and see how the seat fits and the ease of use of the features etc. These are all top notch brands and you can't make a bad decision in this category.
Rock
JD Power surveys the German auto market and Lexus leads in reliability there too. Consumer Reports is kind to the 3 series but the instance of repair on BMW is twice that of Lexus.
I would advise our prospective buyer to drive all of the cars on the type of roads they will use it on and see how the seat fits and the ease of use of the features etc. These are all top notch brands and you can't make a bad decision in this category.
Rock
10-15-06, 04:28 PM
#33
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los AngePittsInaFranciTonionativille
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a stated policy of toyota/lexus not to put new technologies into their models until the reliability, quality, cost, etc., can be justified. The notable exceptions were the hybrid synergy drive systems (not bleeding edge, but market-forward, and improved on everyone else's hybrid designs) and the parking assist (debuted 3 years ago by Toyota at SAE World Congress)...
You'll notice that when they do bring in a new technology, though, they've usually done it better than everyone else.
You'll notice that when they do bring in a new technology, though, they've usually done it better than everyone else.
10-15-06, 05:08 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
German leading edge technology vs. Lexus Doug_999 but Lexus had the near- infrared heads-up display three years ago on the LX470 which gave you a 500ft range ahead and had the resolution of a CCD video camera. We found that owners seldom used it and it made the windshield cost $3,000. Toyota/Lexus spends 28 million dollars a day on research and development for innovation. I can recite a long list of features unavailable on BMW, Mercedes, and Audi that are available on Lexus. Some are licensed to other manufacturers like Hybrid Synergy Drive. The rationale that the more advanced technologies are less reliable is bunk. One of my customers has an '06 BMW 525 which drives and looks beautiful but is a technological disaster. His whole dash panel would just go out completely and it took about 2 months and 4 visits to fix. BMW's and Benz will sit in the stall getting numerous patches downloaded to fix glitches in their systems. We don't have that at Lexus. There are definitely things that BMW excels at that could be arguably better than Lexus but technology, ergonomics and reliability are not their strong suits for comparison.
JD Power surveys the German auto market and Lexus leads in reliability there too. Consumer Reports is kind to the 3 series but the instance of repair on BMW is twice that of Lexus.
I would advise our prospective buyer to drive all of the cars on the type of roads they will use it on and see how the seat fits and the ease of use of the features etc. These are all top notch brands and you can't make a bad decision in this category.
Rock
JD Power surveys the German auto market and Lexus leads in reliability there too. Consumer Reports is kind to the 3 series but the instance of repair on BMW is twice that of Lexus.
I would advise our prospective buyer to drive all of the cars on the type of roads they will use it on and see how the seat fits and the ease of use of the features etc. These are all top notch brands and you can't make a bad decision in this category.
Rock
Rock, you can argue all you want - numerous surveys (including ones I have posted) have shown that BMW has more technology in their cars than Lexus. We can start a "but we have this" war, but I don't think it is worth our time.
You can also point out the reliability differences between the two cars (as I'm sure you do in your job - and rightfully so) - but the fact is, BMW is above average in reliability. Yes, that might mean an extra trip to the dealer once a year, but the fact that Lexus does not put service indicators (ding!) in their cars probably means that Lexus owners visit their dealers more often than BMW owners (my 2000 540ia went in twice - once at 15K and once at end of lease 33K). My GS430, while an atypical Lexus/Toyota car, spent well over 25 days at the dealers during my 39 months with the car.
I do agree however, a prospective buyer needs to not only drive as many cars as possible, but decide what is truly important to them and then make the decision. We are lucky we can choose from so many great cars out there today.
10-15-06, 06:01 PM
#36
Lead Lap
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los AngePittsInaFranciTonionativille
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-16-06, 03:15 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My parents also considered GS and 530i before they bought their 5. Both are very nice cars. It is just there is something very special about the 5. It feels very light and nimble. You just love to drive it. Plus, we like the 5's look more.
10-16-06, 11:05 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rock, you can argue all you want - numerous surveys (including ones I have posted) have shown that BMW has more technology in their cars than Lexus. We can start a "but we have this" war, but I don't think it is worth our time.
You can also point out the reliability differences between the two cars (as I'm sure you do in your job - and rightfully so) - but the fact is, BMW is above average in reliability. Yes, that might mean an extra trip to the dealer once a year, but the fact that Lexus does not put service indicators (ding!) in their cars probably means that Lexus owners visit their dealers more often than BMW owners (my 2000 540ia went in twice - once at 15K and once at end of lease 33K). My GS430, while an atypical Lexus/Toyota car, spent well over 25 days at the dealers during my 39 months with the car.
I do agree however, a prospective buyer needs to not only drive as many cars as possible, but decide what is truly important to them and then make the decision. We are lucky we can choose from so many great cars out there today.
You can also point out the reliability differences between the two cars (as I'm sure you do in your job - and rightfully so) - but the fact is, BMW is above average in reliability. Yes, that might mean an extra trip to the dealer once a year, but the fact that Lexus does not put service indicators (ding!) in their cars probably means that Lexus owners visit their dealers more often than BMW owners (my 2000 540ia went in twice - once at 15K and once at end of lease 33K). My GS430, while an atypical Lexus/Toyota car, spent well over 25 days at the dealers during my 39 months with the car.
I do agree however, a prospective buyer needs to not only drive as many cars as possible, but decide what is truly important to them and then make the decision. We are lucky we can choose from so many great cars out there today.
I would get the new upcoming BMW 535i over the GS350 anyday, however would take the GS460 over a BMW 535i anyday (since they may even be in the same price range!)
10-17-06, 02:33 PM
#40
German leading edge technology vs. Lexus Doug_999 but Lexus had the near- infrared heads-up display three years ago on the LX470 which gave you a 500ft range ahead and had the resolution of a CCD video camera. We found that owners seldom used it and it made the windshield cost $3,000. Toyota/Lexus spends 28 million dollars a day on research and development for innovation. I can recite a long list of features unavailable on BMW, Mercedes, and Audi that are available on Lexus. Some are licensed to other manufacturers like Hybrid Synergy Drive. The rationale that the more advanced technologies are less reliable is bunk. One of my customers has an '06 BMW 525 which drives and looks beautiful but is a technological disaster. His whole dash panel would just go out completely and it took about 2 months and 4 visits to fix. BMW's and Benz will sit in the stall getting numerous patches downloaded to fix glitches in their systems. We don't have that at Lexus. There are definitely things that BMW excels at that could be arguably better than Lexus but technology, ergonomics and reliability are not their strong suits for comparison.
Rock
Rock
But are genernally behind in powertrain, handling, chassis tuning, and suspension.
Lexus did not have active steering, and roll stabilization until recently. And is only available on the GS430. Lexus has never made an efficient automatic as those of BMW. I don't want even to get into Chassis tuning, steering response...etc. The fact speak for itself that GS finished poorly in vehicle dynamics. This is where the technology difference is between German car and Lexus. In addition, just because lexus stated it has the same system does not mean the performance is the same.
I also disagree with comment made by ergonomics. I think I-drive is very easy to use and does not pose any ergonomics problem as people in this forum made it out to be. I don't like Lexus seats (in fact I hate lexus seats, lack support and are generally too soft for long trips). Lexus certainly has its ergonomic issues.
Last edited by chiawei; 10-17-06 at 11:36 PM.
10-17-06, 08:09 PM
#41
I've always been under the belief that most owners do not own their cars for over 12 years and drive them to 200K+ miles, so if you only own a vehicle for four to five years and log on 100K, then the number of visits to the dealer you make will vary very little. So you make 10 trips with Lexus, 12 with BMW, 13 with MB, 11 with Cadillac, it's all moot over the life of the car.
It's those owners that drive their cars to the ground, then you'll notice a substantial more visits to the dealer in German vehicles once you approach the high 100K range into 200K.
It's those owners that drive their cars to the ground, then you'll notice a substantial more visits to the dealer in German vehicles once you approach the high 100K range into 200K.
10-18-06, 02:55 AM
#42
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HI
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the thread has gotten somewhat off topic. ANyway, Thanks for the input. I think I am gonna splurge a little and order the 540i. I've always liked BMW V8s.
10-18-06, 04:02 PM
#43
Rock, you can argue all you want - numerous surveys (including ones I have posted) have shown that BMW has more technology in their cars than Lexus. We can start a "but we have this" war, but I don't think it is worth our time.
You can also point out the reliability differences between the two cars (as I'm sure you do in your job - and rightfully so) - but the fact is, BMW is above average in reliability. Yes, that might mean an extra trip to the dealer once a year, but the fact that Lexus does not put service indicators (ding!) in their cars probably means that Lexus owners visit their dealers more often than BMW owners (my 2000 540ia went in twice - once at 15K and once at end of lease 33K). My GS430, while an atypical Lexus/Toyota car, spent well over 25 days at the dealers during my 39 months with the car.
I do agree however, a prospective buyer needs to not only drive as many cars as possible, but decide what is truly important to them and then make the decision. We are lucky we can choose from so many great cars out there today.
You can also point out the reliability differences between the two cars (as I'm sure you do in your job - and rightfully so) - but the fact is, BMW is above average in reliability. Yes, that might mean an extra trip to the dealer once a year, but the fact that Lexus does not put service indicators (ding!) in their cars probably means that Lexus owners visit their dealers more often than BMW owners (my 2000 540ia went in twice - once at 15K and once at end of lease 33K). My GS430, while an atypical Lexus/Toyota car, spent well over 25 days at the dealers during my 39 months with the car.
I do agree however, a prospective buyer needs to not only drive as many cars as possible, but decide what is truly important to them and then make the decision. We are lucky we can choose from so many great cars out there today.
No.
BMW has I-Drive. And thats only where it has more technology than Lexus. And I am not really sure if thats good at all.
Now, going to powertrain, navigation, lighting, parking systems, ergonomics and gazillion other features, BMW is significantly inferior.
It is really hard to argue that BMW has more technology than Lexus, especially in light of all the horror stories about complete car electronic failures, which you can find on any BMW board, and any BMW.
10-18-06, 04:04 PM
#44
Lexus has technology advantage in electronics such as self parking, navi, etc.
But are genernally behind in powertrain, handling, chassis tuning, and suspension.
Lexus did not have active steering, and roll stabilization until recently. And is only available on the GS430. Lexus has never made an efficient automatic as those of BMW. I don't want even to get into Chassis tuning, steering response...etc. The fact speak for itself that GS finished poorly in vehicle dynamics. This is where the technology difference is between German car and Lexus. In addition, just because lexus stated it has the same system does not mean the performance is the same.
I also disagree with comment made by ergonomics. I think I-drive is very easy to use and does not pose any ergonomics problem as people in this forum made it out to be. I don't like Lexus seats (in fact I hate lexus seats, lack support and are generally too soft for long trips). Lexus certainly has its ergonomic issues.
But are genernally behind in powertrain, handling, chassis tuning, and suspension.
Lexus did not have active steering, and roll stabilization until recently. And is only available on the GS430. Lexus has never made an efficient automatic as those of BMW. I don't want even to get into Chassis tuning, steering response...etc. The fact speak for itself that GS finished poorly in vehicle dynamics. This is where the technology difference is between German car and Lexus. In addition, just because lexus stated it has the same system does not mean the performance is the same.
I also disagree with comment made by ergonomics. I think I-drive is very easy to use and does not pose any ergonomics problem as people in this forum made it out to be. I don't like Lexus seats (in fact I hate lexus seats, lack support and are generally too soft for long trips). Lexus certainly has its ergonomic issues.
:-).
10-18-06, 06:44 PM
#45