...I posted this on the ES 350 forum but I thought you guys might be interested too.


Well, I just got home from a wonderfully stimulating afternoon of gawking at and driving cars.

Here's some of my thoughts.

First off, Lexus did a wonderful job and had enough cars that the lines to drive them weren't excessively long. The entire affair was handled with polish and class. Kudos to Lexus for an entertaining and informative afternoon.

Lexus LS 460 - Very much the "big brother" to our car. Nice but not drop dead "holy cow, I can't believe it" nice. Very fast, nicely balanced and pretty flat through s-curves. On the negative side, the throttle is still very non linear with small changes corresponding to either no change in power or massive "throw you back in the seat" acceleration; the brakes, too were very notchy and "grabby" with small moduations in pressure causing unpredictable and overly aggressive braking. All in all the drivetrain was a major dissappointment in it's lack of harmony and linkage. As this is clearly present in our cars (the ES) one begins to think that Lexus just can't get engines and tranny's to link together properly.

M-B S 550 - WOW!!! Both inside and out, this car radiates class and elegance. Literally everything about it pretty much screams "in this car you have reached the pinnacle of automotive sophistication and refinement." Everything looks like quality and radiates good taste. Awesome, simply awesome. The engine is incredibly torquey (sp?) and it feels like the ability to accelerate is limitless. Power delivery is entirely linear with the degree to which the accelerator is pressed and there is no hesitation whatsoever when you push the gas pedal. Power delivery is immediate with your right foot, the accelerator pedal and the drivetrain all feeling as if they are governed by one mind. Very impressive! The transmission is as smooth as fresh butter and you never feel any shift points at all. On the negative side, the car is heavy and the front end doesn't respond to rapid direction changes as nimbly as the Lexus. There is very little body lean, however and the car maintains a nice neutral posture thru s-curves. The steering is positively awful. The steering wheel is too big and feels like a Mack truck it's so heavily weighted. All this comes at a price (what doesn't?). $86k is what you'll need to bring one of these home.

BMW 750 - This is one seriously ugly car. And you know what? It gets even worse (if that's possible) when you get in. The interior looks cheap and as if it's ergonomics (I admittedly use the term loosely) were designed by a psychotic, retarded person. Buttons and ***** are strewn everywhere with little or no apparent planning. The button to adjust seat position is mindlessly placed on the side of the center stack by your right knee. Buttons are everywhere and you don't even want to get me started on the mind nubbingly dumb-assed "I-Drive" system. It's all a design and ergonomic nightmare. Chris Bangle should be shot for the exterior but whoever "designed" (again, I use the term loosely as this thing doesn't appear so much designed as thrown into some cosmic blender and put together based on whatever spilled out) the interior should be given to Saddam Hussein's kids (if they were still alive, but I guess you get my point). Now onto something a bit more pleasant. The car drives like a dream. As with the M-B, there is total harmony between the engine, transmission and accelerator pedal. Power delivery is immediate and the thing is a rocket ship. There is essentially no body lean and it handles like a slot car. Pretty impressive for a 4500 lb. vehicle. There is simply nothing bad to say about the driving dynamics of this champ. If you could get by it's "Ugly Betty" appearance and hideous interior, this is a killer car. And a steal at "only" $74k.

Lexus SC 430 - Ughhh! Who buys this thing? It looks like an upside down bathtub. It's proportions are all wrong and it's cramped inside. It's not terribly fast and it handles like a Cunard ocean liner. I simply don't know what to say. This baby is just a joke.

Lexus GS 450h - OK, I'm on record as saying that I despise the hatchback appearance of the GS and I stick to that. And the interior is cramped. I couldn't car less about any dimensions that Lexus publishes that say that this is as roomy (or roomier) than the ES...it's not! You feel confined and claustrophobic. It's interior is quite spartan, perhaps taking its lead from it's target demographic, the BMW 5 Series. It's instrumentation is very nice, however and thankfully there are just enough buttons and ***** to control everything that needs to be controlled on a regular basis. You say you want power? Well, let me tell you, have you come to the right place! If the BMW 750 is a rocket ship (and it is), this thing is an anti-missile missle. This thing is frighteningly fast. This must be what driving a Ferrari is like (well, maybe not quite, but close). In very unLexus-like fashion, power delivery is pretty much immediate and the car feels like it could take off with another millimeter or two of accelerator travel. The chassis is as flat as a carpenter's level and it handles s-curves with complete composure and confidence. This thing is like driving a go cart at a carnival. Except it's much bigger, has a roof and goes a whole lot faster. Oh, and it costs just a little more too ($62k). The brakes are a little notchy in reassuringly Lexus-like fashion (what's the problem here guys, you can get this right...you really need to work on this..."Relentless Pursuit of Perfection" huh?...well you have some work to do here) and you have to be very careful modulating them or they grab way too hard, a characteristic seen on just about every Lexus vehicle. If Lexus wants to know how to do brakes right, they should just copy whatever M-B is doing because, let me tell you, they have it dead solid perfect.

OK, end of rant, er, I meant review.

Flame away!

 

troll.....hope your therapist has an appointment available for you tomorrow. better yet this post belongs on MB/BMW forum. just my 2 cents

 

Eh... glad you had fun. Good for you. I'd still take that cramped hatchback-wannabe over an ES, though.

 

guys, everyone has their right to voice their opinions. if you don't like it, skip it. calling people a troll isn't making you any better. i don't want to close this thread for that resaon.

thanks

 

I think PsychDoc is pretty much dead on. I have experienced the brake issues he describes and most of the Lexus vehicles do it. What gives?

 

it's just a matter of getting used to. i bet both es350 and gs300 you guys all have the normal smaller brakes, of course the stopping power is not comparable to the large brakes on the gs430, ls460, gs450h, is350, etc....

imho the brakes on the gs300 and es350 are very weak, i will leave it like that. not that the brakes don't work, but they are not as aggressive and predictable.

it's all about perspective. when i switched from my gs400 too sc430 (with brake assist), the braking is very strong and i need time to get used to them. once i drive my sc430 for a while and go back to my gs400, i need to press harder and deeper to get the same braking.

and both cars when i switched from stock brakes to aftermarket bbk, i needed to relearn braking too. once you get used to it, you will have no problem

 

PsychDoc, I haven't been a fan of your "negative" GS posts on the ES forum, but I agree with parts of your review. I also am very impressed with the S550. I know people will question the reliability of Mercedes, but inside and out, I think the S550 is homerun.

I also agree with your assessment of the GS450H...styling critiques notwithstanding. It's quite the rocket, such a different car than my GS430.

 

sorry didnt mean to go off on psycho doc. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

i quite enjoyed the 450h but still love our 430 a lot too. it's a real tossup for me - fuel economy/power vs. brute V8 growl. we get a kick out of driving the 430 all the time, and the styling is very sporty yet elegant IMO.

as for the S550 mercedes - i can't agree w/ you more. we were BLOWN AWAY by the interior, it is like no other car. we were happy that a line had formed before the take off from the green light so that we could play with it a tad longer. i mean the thing screams luxury and class and actually rides quite nicely. it's a tad too big IMHO for everyday use, but that thing is just amazing. it's just in a class of its own. it makes me wonder how it will translate into the new E class in a few years...

 

I believe Mercedes did the only sensible thing - they ditched the brake by wire system which they had initially rolled out in the E-class and went back to hydraulic for their whole range of cars. This restored all of the brake feel and modulation that electronic sensors can never hope to duplicate.