I was at the same crossroads as you back in May. I first went and looked at the GS. I absolutely loved (and still do) the exterior styling of the GS. Interior was handsome and well executed. For the heck of it I decided to go look at the RL.

The interior of the RL blew me away, much more daring and flawlessly executed. In the end I went with the RL and the following is what swayed me...

1. As I mentioned, the interior just hooked me.
2. Acura Nav was hands better than the Gen IV Nav in the GS (I have the same in my Toyota Landcruiser). The voice recognition in the Gen IV is laughable. The VR in the Acura Nav is excellent. Navtraffic really works and I now can't imagine not having it. I would give it nearly a 98% accuracy with commands. You can virtually program or do anything just by speaking to it. Now Gen V nav in the new GS may have closed the gap, but I haven't tried it.
3. SH-AWD. It's not a gimmick, it really works. THe car handles like it's on rails.
4. Price. Yes resale may not be great, but you're also paying close to $10K under MSRP, so resale is relative.

Now I won't criticize the GS. I still admire the car when I see it on the road and it's a great car, but I'll anser some of the criticisms lobbed towrds the RL.

1. "It's a Honda" - Let's not kid ourselves people, the lineage is what it is. Just like Toyota is the parent company of Lexus, so is Honda with Acura. If you're that superficial about what is stenciled on the glass, then you need to get a life... Oh by the way, while the TL may have "Honda" on the glass, go check the RL... it says "Acura". Like I said though... who are we kidding?
2. Seats - I can't speak for the 3rd gen TL, but the RL has some of the most comfortable seats I've ever planted my not so small butt in. I mean it, go take a test drive.
3. "Looks like an Accord" - Admittedly it does bear the familiar Honda/Acura styling cues, and in pictures it does look a bit bland, but I have to say that in person it's a different story. It has a muscular wide stance to it. Granted it still leans more towards anonoymous versus daring, but it does look much better in person.
4. Touchscreen Navi vs. **** - I also though that this would be an issue, but I was pleasantly surprised. Do not mistaken this for BMW's I-Drive. Acura has done a much better job with the layout. Also as I mentioned the voice recognition is so good, I rarely have to reach for the ****.
5. "Not a real flagship" - Admittedly Acura has never had a clue on how to market a $50K+ car. No clue at all. The biggest criticism launched against it is the lack of a V8. Then again, you're looking at the 350, not the 430, so it's a moot point. Also, last I checked, The LS, not the GS is still the flagship for Lexus.
6. Run flats & CMBS - Admittedly I have the "non-tech" version so I can't speak to this stuff.
7. V6 power - The RL beat out the GS in several comparison test from the car mags (C&D etc.). Now I haven't seen a review opposite the new 350 and the power increase it brings.
8. "Acura namebadge" - I will agree that Acura dealers can learn a thing or two from Lexus, but I think it depends on the dealers. I would argue that my Acura dealer is on par with most Lexus dealers. In the past (I used to own an '01 TL) they have gone WAY BEYOND the call of duty. The service department treats me like royalty and provides me with a loaner RL whenever I take my car in for service. Again, if you find the right dealership, this can be a moot point.

So I've had my RL now for close to 6 months and I'm even more in love with this car now than I was in the beginning. It's been absolutely flawless (it is assembled in Japan vs. the TL which is screwed together in the US). I have received numerous compliments on the car and I love the aggressive look of the front-end (sdee my comments about in person versus pictures).


Again, I have the utmost respect for the GS as I came very close to buying one, but I thought I'd bring a little more objectivity to the conversation.

 

Both are great cars and of course, being on a Lexus forum, we will say get the GS. However it is for your mom and I think the RL is a perfect mom car and with the deals you can get on them, for your mom, it maybe a better buy....

Then buy YOURSELF the GS

One thing you didn't mention was speed, the GS 350 is a full second quicker than the RL in 0-60 and the 1/4 mile... makes for easier passing and merging in traffic.

 

BTW quotes on the two cars....

GS 350

"Delightful to drive, with a quiet and velvety power delivery. Not quite a sports sedan, but close enough for a luxury car"

Acura RL
"Crisp handling, sports sedan ride quality, SH-AWD system enhances cornering capabilities. "

Edmunds
GS 300 (I know it's the 300, but driving-wise I can't imagine much has changed)
"Good, but Not Great
There's nothing wrong with the 2006 Lexus GS 300 as a luxury sedan, it's the sport part of the equation where it fails to measure up. "

Acura RL
"Can't Argue With Success
If you want an eye-catching valet star, there are other cars that might be better. If you want the best all-wheel-drive luxury sport sedan for the money, the 2005 Acura RL is as good as it gets. "

There's more, but you get the picture.

Now which car should he get for his mother?

 

Here some other quotes/posts:

1) I am taking my 05 RL in Monday to have another axle bearing replaced. Has anyone else had this problem? I had the first one replaced at 8K miles and this one at 18K miles. They have to replace the entire axle to fix it since the bearing and axle are one piece.
Still love the car but this is crazy.

2) my drivers side lower fog lamp lens is split,,,not back rock,,,simply by rinsing with hose while washing!,,,do not know if this is covered by warranty!,,,sure hope so,,,anyone else encountered this? (pic at the link below)

3) I just purchased a brand new 2006 RL a month ago and it's just way too noisy. My family owns a Honda Pilot and Lexus es330 and it has the most road noise. I understand that Toyota cars are known for its quite ride, but even worse than the Pilot? Perhaps, something wrong with my car?? Is anyone having same complaints?
It's a $50,000 car and I'm very dissapointed.

4) 2005 RL ..

Overall, I've been very disappointed with the quality of the car .. so many noises and squeaks and rattles .. like a NYC taxi...

Most recent rattle that is driving me INSANE is one that appears to be coming from the drivers seat belt .. has anyone experienced this and does anyone have a solution? Dealer cannot do anything about it and I will trade the car in if I have to listen to this much longer.

5) I just wanted to check in with my fellow Acura RL owners. While I have really loved this car for the year I've owned it, I am a bit annoyed with some of the minor issues including the most recent, the AFS Warning Light. I brought it in to the dealer (Boston Acura) to have them check it out about a month ago, they said that they couldn't find a problem. In the past week the problem has gone from bad to worse . . . what was formerly an intermittent problem that was typically addressed by turning the car off is now an ongoing problem. For those of you who have had this problem: what did your dealer eventually uncover, and how was it resolved?

I think that Acura should require its dealers and their service departments to subscribe to and read this forum. So often they shrug their shoulders and say "We've never seen that problem before" . . . when in fact it's been discussed several times here on the forum.

Thanks all.

6) I was planning on buying an RL but after reading about all the experiences that owners have with their dealers and cars, I think I will pass on it. I compared this to the 'Problems' board on Lexus and it seems like the dealerships are a lot more helpful. The key reason I buy Japanese cars is because my work doesn't allow for frequent trips to the dealer. If there was a problem, I would not be able to easily make multiple trips to an Acura dealer just to be told "thats how the car is supposed to work". This message is targeted more to Acura -- you are losing business even with people who want to buy your car.

7) smart guy! the car isn't the wonder it is claimed to be.

Perhaps, that is why Acura is offering a $3000 dealer incentive to move the RL. It gets a junk rating in my book.

8) To Sad06rlowner,

I purchased a new tl that had a serious driveline vibration. When I complained, they told me it was "characteristic of the car"...just like they told you

Just remember...Acura does not build lemons...and they don't fix them either.

9) not just a few unhappy owners... over 600 posts identifying problems and Acura's response. THe controversy is caused by the problems. Some people are satisfied with anything, and don't complain. Others seek value and quality. My 05 was so bad I went to arbitration for 4 major problems. One was enough for the arbitrator, who ordered the car repurchased without even considering the other three. Acura's response - they all do that.

10) Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I had a similar conversation with our Service Manager, saying we were surprised on two or three occasions when objects suddenly appeared in the headlights and put it down to the very abrupt low beam cut-off. The result was disappointing.

We like our RL, but have given up on the Acura brand. The road service department left us stranded, and the dealer's penchant for selling profit-boosting unnecessary services has resulted in squabbles. Though Acura products feel better, we have set aside the purchase of an MDX in favor of a Lexus RX 330.

11) Problems aren't limited to you.

"They all do that" must be taught at Acura school. My RL had sluggish performance, severe throttle lag at 50 mph, poor fuel mileage (16 mpg) and a host of electrical gremlins. Acura's response " no defect, they all do that." Acura went as far as to sent another RL out for a test drive to prove they are right. The test car got 11 mpg, had the same lag, an a variety of gremlins.

Sorry Acura, the RL just doesn't cut it.

12) Follow up:
Turns out the reason the car was acting so poorly was that it was in "backup" mode and stayed there. Apparently, after a code is thrown the car goes into backup mode, kind of like Windows safe mode, until it is sure it has been fixed properly. After the code is cleared, it can take up to 30 days for the car to cycle through all of its internal diagnostics to feel it is "safe" to come out of its shell again and work up to par.

The awful part about this whole experience was how the dealership did everything it could to ignore the problem, the corporate headquarters avoided the issue and even when it became clear what had happened, I was still told 'but it could be bad gas too" - anything to blame the issue on me. They even refused to write up the service repair order explaining about the backup mode issue even though that is what the mechanic told both my husband and I in front of the service manager.
While on the test drive, the mechanic says "yes, I remember driving with you when you came and the car ran really rough but that was because it was in backup mode because the check engine light was on". "So, how long does this mode stay in place?" "Up to a month after the light has been reset." "So, then that explains why it continued to run rough when I got it back from the dealership only a few hours after you had reset the code." "Well, not necessarily. It could be something else, like bad gas." "But you just said it was riding rough because it was in backup mode." "Yes, but that was while the light was on, so I knew that was the problem then, after that it could have been anything else (like something you did wrong)>"

Unbelievable. Even when they KNOW what is wrong, they still won't admit it.

Anyway, if you car runs like a golfcart, check to see that it is not in backup mode.

13) Here’s my latest adventure getting my Acura RL serviced at the dealership.

I asked the dealer to provide a Type 2 service, and a warranty adjustment to a sticking front seat belt. My car is 18-months old, but has only 8,500-miles. The oil and filter are changed every 3-months, five times so far at an average 1,700-mile interval. There has been a previous comprehensive inspection.

The dealer performed $80 of unsolicited services additional to Acura’s published maintenance requirements. Coincidentally, most cost $15 plus labor and taxes. They termed the first three chemical services.

• Motor oil additive, $15.
• Gasoline additive, $15.
• Door and window gasket silicone spray, $15.
• Brake rotor polishing disk, $15. (The maintenance service calls for inspecting the brakes.)
• Seat belt retractor lubricant, $15. (Warranty)
• The ubiquitous environmental charge no one can satisfactorily itemize.

Saying, "I thought you would appreciate the extra care and attention we gave your car," the manager reduced the bill about $50, but appeared to be offended.

On arrival home I found a fresh foot-long scratch on the painted lower front bumper panel. It looks like a hydraulic floor jack may have been wheeled into it.

I doubt I’ll return to the dealer unless I have a warranty claim, and can watch what they do.

14) Read the 40,000 long term test of the Acura RL, Car&Driver took it off it's 10 best list because of all the problems they had with the car, 8 unscheduled dealer visits to fix a host of problems, they were not happy with this car. These problems are going to affect the resale value of the car, especially if Consumer Reports rates the dependability very bad also. Saw a new one with 3,000 miles at the Cadillac dealership, stayed away from it. Read the April issue of Car&Driver, maybe they discuss a fix for their car that applies to yours as well.

PLUS my personal experience...my uncle dropped his RL after a couple months because he said the seats are super uncomfortable and bad for your back posture and cannot be adjusted in a way that they are good for your back (he's a doctor!), guess what he drives now?---a 2006 LS!

I HAD a 05 TL until they refused to cover clear manufacturing defects and had to go to arbitration....arbitrator threw the book at Acura and was clearly disgusted at their "its how the car is supposed to be" cliche excuse. I got a refund!

All found at:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef4f332

Get the Lexus...Acura sucks!

 

Oh brother.... Do you really want me to comb through all the forums here for people complaining about their Lexus?

In addition, do you want me to point out the issues that I've had with my Landcruiser? Nav screen went out. Come to find out that there was a TSB out for '04 Landcruisers and LX470s. If I hadn't purchased the extended warranty. My '04 would have required me to pay over $5000 to get the nav screen replaced. Or what about the fact that the headunit in my LC needed to be replaced due to a TSB out there with respect to a bluetooth issue. Again plaguing both LCs and LXs.

Do a search on the recent quality problems that have been plaguing Toyota/Lexus lately.

The RL did have some teething problems it's first model year ('05), but Acura corrected them in the '06 model year. Don't take my word for it, go check the forums.

With all that said, my point here wasn't to start a flame war, but to give an opposing view.

 

I will TRY to be objective here...

The RL is an excellent car, but has had some real quality issues
that are more serious than the GS's. The 3GS has had rattle
issues and a seatbelt recall, but for the most part has rated very
well quality wise on Consumer Reports. Lexus customer service
is for the most part excellent and they stand behind their products.
Acura's is less so.

I think the RL is more of an older person's car. It is more practical,
but I also think its styling is too conservative.

Forget these cars and get an LS460 AWD next year

 

The biggest difference in the two brands is not only the reliability its the complete lack and even bad faith on the part of Honda/Acura to step up and remedy their defects. Toyota/Lexus on the other hand is much less likely to give you the middle finger when you need something done.

 

Both cars are fantastic. At the end of the day, you come home as a winner.

Since you're the ony who is going to buy the car, test drive both cars extensively and decide which one you prefer. Dont let brand image, sway you from one car to the other. If you happen to like the GS350 more, go for it, and vice versa with the RL.

No car can ever be built to perfection. Not even the almighty Lexus LS460, none the less a car that's built in mass production. Just know that with either car, reliability is a mute point to argue. Arguing about which car has better quality/reliability makes as much sense as arguing which car is uglier, the pontiac aztek or the Honda Ridgeline. Both are at the top of the game

But in the end for me, I would have to go with the RL. I'm coming from a 2nd gen GS400. I need something that would make me go wow in terms of gadget and daily performance. When I buy a car, I look for the following: quality, reliability, gadgets, and performance. The RL has all of that, except maybe the GS has better straight line performance, but I rarely floor my car so that extra second in a quarter mile doesn't matter to me.

Buy the Lexus if you like the looks of it, or if you're worried about what people will think (yes brand name can be a problem for some people). Buy the RL for its gadgets (SH-AWD is a big plus). The GS is probably more comfortable, at the expense of driving pleasure. The RL is probably not as cushy as the GS, but thats the tradeoff for sport-oriented suspension.

 

I admitted that not all Acura dealers are created equal. I must be fortunate then since mine bends over backwards. THey also repaired several items on my '01 TL as goodwill well after the warranty expired.

As for quality, I will also admit that there is a difference between that Acura's that are manufactured state-side (TL) and those assembled overseas (RL), but the purpose of this thread was a discussion of the RL, versus the GS. I'm not aware of any MAJOR quality issues with the RL as opposed to the transmission problems that are affecting the new Camry/ES (like the previous gen TLs). To my knowledge most of the RL issues pertained to XM units needing to be reflashed, Intermittent issues with AFS, and quirky door handles. Those were all corrected in '06 and if you scan the TSBs between '05 & '06 you'll see a dramatic improvement.

As for the comment that the RL is an "old man's car", again it is documented that the RL is more of a drivers car, while the GS is slanted more towards luxury and isolated ride. Given that it would seem it's the argument is for the reverse.

Again, you guys seem to get all sensitive defending your rides to the point that you have to start trashing the competition. I am just offering an alternative.

My RL has been rock solid. Go over to some of the RL message boards (not sure I'm allowed to mention them here) and you'll see that the vast majority of their owners love their RLs.

 

Have you checked out the Infiniti M35 AWD?

 

^^ Another decent car. THe styling just didn't grab me.

 

Let us post some facts

All cars have problems yes but Lexus is world famous now for being the top quality automobile. Acura is a good quality brand, they are above the industry average but have more problems per automobile on average than Lexus. Lexus has problems like all car makers but continues to have the LEAST amount of problems, this was verified again (and again and again and again) by JD Power and Consumer Reports.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...asp?ID=2006082

http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/inde...10-000816-1425

http://www.prnewswire.com/mnr/jdpower/22238/

Lexus is also the #1 top quality brand in Europe. (Acura is not sold in Europe but the RL is the Honda Legend there and Honda as a whole performs very well with quality).
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...ase.asp?ID=108
(as you can see the S2000 is the #1 car and I am giviing it props)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...highlight=gear



Since its debut in 1989, Lexus has developed a reputation for the reliability of its vehicles and the quality of its customer service. In 2006, consumer ratings firm J.D. Power named Lexus the most reliable brand in the U.S. based on its Vehicle Dependability Survey, a measure of over 47,000 vehicle owners and the problems they experienced in the first three years of vehicle ownership. It was the twelfth consecutive year that Lexus achieved this top rating [1]. That same year, Consumer Reports also named Lexus the most reliable brand in its Annual Car Reliability Survey of over one million vehicles nationwide [2]. Additionally, Lexus ranks highly on surveys of dealership service experience.

Bottom line but Lexus and Acura are high quality brands, Lexus is clearly the best quality automobile in the world.

p.s- please tell your 5 year old minded forum friends keep my name out their mouth. Its funny how worried they are about me years after we parted ways and I can't name one got damn person on that forum....

 

and who mentioned friends? My comments are based off of my experience over the years.

and lastly I never ripped Lexus for quality. Just pointed out the issues with my Landcruisers and the recent issues with Toyota/Lexus.

Oh and since you're pointing out facts.

This article was in Autoblog in August.

August 5, 2006
Repairing Some Dents in an Image
By MICHELINE MAYNARD and MARTIN FACKLER
The news is something no car owner wants to hear. Power steering on their hard-to-get hybrid could fail. Tires on their small pickups could bulge and possibly burst. Air bags may not inflate during a crash.

These recalls are the type that have long bedeviled American carmakers, but this time it was Toyota of Japan, long known as the crème de la crème in quality.

Just as Toyota appears poised to pass General Motors to become the world’s largest automaker, it has a growing problem with recalls that is sullying its carefully honed image.

In the United States, Toyota’s largest market, the number of vehicles recalled soared to 2.2 million last year. That was double the number of vehicles recalled in 2004, and more than 10 times the 200,000 cars it recalled in 2003, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

In Japan, the number of recalled vehicles has jumped 41-fold since 2001, to 1.9 million last year. And because many of the recalls are for vehicles that are more than 10 years old, analysts fear that another wave of bad quality news may be in store.

The situation has alarmed Toyota’s top executives and angered the Japanese government. It ordered Toyota to explain itself, which the company did in a report delivered Thursday, accompanied by the latest in a series of apologies. In it, the company promised to create a new computer database to obtain information more quickly from dealers on repairs and complaints. The police in Japan said three Toyota officials were under criminal investigation on suspicion that they concealed vehicle defects over eight years.

Inside Toyota, the spate of recalls and the criminal investigation has caused a flurry of high-level efforts to diagnose and fix the problems, which have affected its Prius hybrid, the gold standard among fuel-efficient vehicles; the Tacoma pickup; and cars in its Lexus luxury lineup.

Quality problems can befall any company, whether based in Detroit, Europe or elsewhere. This week, in fact, Ford expanded a recall of its vans, sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks because of problems with cruise control systems that were prone to catching fire.

For now, Toyota’s quality issues do not seem to be damping its operations either in Japan, where it is the biggest automaker, or the United States, where Toyota passed Ford in July to rank as the No. 2 company in terms of auto sales. Nor is it affecting Toyota’s net income, which climbed 39.2 percent during the second-quarter, to $3.2 billion, the company said yesterday. [Page C4.]

But executives know they cannot let the situation fester, because it ultimately threatens Toyota’s ability to grow. If they fail to get their arms around the problem, they will have to pull back on the company’s expansion plans, which are set to include more assembly and engine plants for the United States, as well as factories elsewhere.

At Toyota’s annual executive meeting in June, its departing chairman, Hiroshi Okuda; the new chairman, Fujio Cho; and its chief executive, Katsuaki Watanabe, all vowed to managers that the quality issue would be addressed, according to a senior Toyota executive who attended the meeting.

“The quality issue is a big concern. They’re embarrassed about it,” said the executive, who insisted on anonymity because the meeting was private.

“You think about Toyota, and quality is in our DNA,” he continued. “We are concerned about looking like the rest of the pack. The market is forgiving because of our long reputation, but how long will they be forgiving?”

Interviews with car owners and dealers show they have some latitude.

Bruce Wachtell, 71, bought a 2006 Prius in March after years of driving a Toyota Tacoma pickup without any problems.

“It’s never seen a dealer,” he said of the truck.

Mr. Wachtell, a retired ship’s radio officer living in Stinson Beach, Calif., began buying foreign cars after growing frustrated with the quality of American-made vehicles. That sentiment is confirmed, he said, whenever he peruses repair records for various brands in Consumer Reports, and he has not lost any confidence in Toyota because of the recent recalls.

“I think recalls are just simply a function of the fact that no design is perfect,” he said.

Mr. Wachtell called his dealership after discovering recall notices that included the 2006 Prius on the Internet, but he was told his vehicle was not among those affected. Both the Tacoma and the Prius, however, are among the vehicles in Toyota’s recent recalls.

At Bredemann Toyota in Park Ridge, Ill., Don Ziemke, the general sales manager, said only a few shoppers had asked about the implications of the recalls. Other dealers said they had prepared their employees to answer such questions, but that no one had even brought up the topic.

“Toyota’s longevity and reliability has always been a strong suit,” Mr. Ziemke said. “That kind of takes a hit when there are recalls out there.”

Still, he said, “It’s against the grain as far as what Toyota has provided its dealer body and customers in the past.”

The primary reason for the recalls is Toyota’s overloaded engineering staff, say company executives and industry analysts.

Despite its global expansion during the 1990’s, it failed to hire enough engineers to keep up with production increases.

And it kept most of its development in Japan, even though it built research and development centers in places like Ann Arbor, Mich., and Brussels. At the same time, a new Japanese law required companies to pay for overtime for white-collar workers, raising the costs incurred by engineers, whose long hours on the job were the stuff of industry legend.

Analysts say that all this may have contributed to a number of errors introduced during vehicle development. There have been fewer problems on the assembly line, however, which has been a more common cause of recent recalls at other carmakers like Nissan.

Another issue is that Toyota, like other global auto companies, has farmed out the development of key components to its suppliers, both companies with which it has been doing business for years, like Denso of Japan, and newer ones, like the Delphi Corporation, the biggest American parts maker.

The damage has been slow to emerge — indeed, most recent recalls involve cars produced in the 1990’s. But that means potential problems from hectic growth years in the early 2000’s have yet to appear, and analysts warn that Toyota’s quality woes may only become worse before they get better.

“I’m more concerned about the future,” said Kunihiko Shiohara, an auto analyst for Goldman Sachs in Tokyo. “A fundamental turnaround in quality levels will take at least four years.”

It also does not help that some rivals appear to be gaining quality ground on Toyota, whose Toyota-brand cars and Lexus line of luxury cars had long topped quality rankings. It still dominated the recommended list from Consumer Reports this year. But in June, a survey of new-vehicle quality by J. D. Power & Associates, a marketing research company, ranked the German luxury carmaker Porsche in the top spot, and with Hyundai of South Korea in second place, ahead of Toyota at No. 3.

To be sure, rising recall numbers are not limited to Toyota. A reason that recalls have gone up is that automakers are using an increasing number of common parts across a number of car models, which saves money, but also means that flaws affect larger numbers of vehicles.

Another is the increasing complexity of vehicles, as companies rely more heavily on electronics and computerized features that used to be mechanical. “It’s not fair to single out Toyota for many problems,” said Takaki Nakanishi, an auto industry analyst with J. P. Morgan in Tokyo.

Still, the rapid rise in recalls at Toyota stands out in comparison with other carmakers. In Japan, where Toyota is the largest auto company, with about 39 percent of the market, its recalls quadrupled over the last four years, to 1.9 million in 2005. That compares with 199,000 at No. 2 Nissan and 205,000 at Honda in 2005, according to the transportation ministry.

In Toyota’s case, 68 percent of its recent recalls can be blamed on design flaws, according to Goldman Sachs. They include rubber parts not made thick enough to withstand engine heat and joints too weak to hold together. Of Toyota’s recalls in 2004, 68 percent were because of design problems, Goldman Sachs said.

Analysts say Toyota’s problems stem from the mid-1990’s, when Mr. Okuda, who was president, began expanding its global production. Toyota did not hire enough engineers to keep up with production increases because it was trying to meet tough self-imposed cost-cutting targets, analysts said.

Understaffed design centers have also forced Toyota to rely on large parts makers to help design major components “Toyota’s resources have been stretched quite a bit by the big increases in volume,” said Andrew Phillips, an analyst at Nikko Citigroup in Tokyo. “What’s remarkable is that most the recalls now predate the really big ramp-up.”

That came after 2000, when Toyota’s annual vehicle sales rose to the almost 8.85 million expected this year, from about 6 million.

But Toyota has increased the hiring of new engineers, bringing on 979 last year, compared with 310 in 2001. A company spokesman, Paul Nolasco, said Toyota planned to hire at least another 850 this year.

In a departure from corporate tradition that stressed spending a career at a single company, Toyota wants 200 of its new hires to be experienced engineers hired in midcareer from elsewhere.

In June, Toyota assigned a second executive vice president to its quality control division and created a new senior managing director spot dedicated to improving quality.

“Everyone is taking this very seriously,” said a top-ranking executive in Toyota’s North American operations who spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. The stakes are high, he added: “If we can’t lick it, we will have to slow down” — a decision Toyota hopes it does not have to make.

 

Gohawks, you're lucky and (a rarity) in that you have excellent service out of an Acura dealer. However I bet my last time you realize you made a mistake buying Acura f you ever have a more seriosu problem and need anykind of ok above the dealer from Acura corporate to cover it. My money's on "its how its supposed to be" as a response to your problem. But good luck with it in the meantime.

 

Nope, not true. Remember that I had an '01 Tl. The '00 thru '03 Tls had the 5-spd tranmissions that were dying left and right. Early on in my ownership, just as the problem was first being reported, I noticed one wierd shift after I made a turn.

I called my dealer and with no questions asked, the SM told me to bring my car in to get serviced. They were going to give me a new transmission.

OK, now you might argue that that was a known problem. I also mentioned that they covered out of warranty stuff for me as well.

They replaced both seat heaters when I was 5K miles out of warranty. I'm sure they needed to get goodwill approval for that as I doubt the dealer ate the cost of the repair.

Like I said, there are good dealers out there and bad ones. I'll even admit ( and I did earlier) that Acura could learn a thing or two from Lexus on dealer service. I'm just a very happy Acura RL owner.