Q for long time Lexus owners. Is Lexus quality going downhill?
12-27-06, 02:21 AM
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Q for long time Lexus owners. Is Lexus quality going downhill?
The GS350 and ES350 are my first Lexus products and I have always been under the impression that these were the most reliable cars out there, over-engineered and designed to outlast anything out there. I can honestly say that so far I am very unimpressed. The GS itself is wonderful and I still love it but the rattle thing is a little disappointing. It's not a big deal and I can live with it but I was thinking about it and I am not sure why I should have to accept it. I have never had a rattle like this in any of the cars that I have ever owned. Sure they may have had other problems but those were all repaired without issue and for lack of a better phrase, stuff happens. If the 2006 GS had so many rattles that there were numerous spots that needed to be isolated, why is there still a rattle in the 2007 GSs with build dates after the date of the TSIBs? The windshield locating pin issue affects the new LS460 as well so it's not a price point issue. It's just poor design. I have had several Suburbans, a Denali XL, a Chrysler Town & Country Minivan, a couple of Camrys, a Solara, a Sienna, lots of BMWs, lots of Mercedes, and a couple of Porsches. None have rattled like this and none have had the issues that people are experiencing with their ES350s. (mine seems to be ok so I am not complaining specifically about my ES350, just referencing problems reported by other members).
I took my GS in for the windshield locating pin TSIB (for the second time) and they gave me a 2007 IS loaner. It has 6200 miles on it and there are so many rattles that I am shocked that this is a Lexus product. They are all over the car including the dash (middle and sides), the moonroof, the center console, the rear shelf. EVERYWHERE! How does a car rattle like this after only 6200 miles. It's not a convertible, it's not a truck, this would be unacceptable even 20 years ago. How can this happen? It's a beautiful car, personally I think the lines are even better than the GS and the inside looks great, the instrument cluster is better than the GS, the seats are comfortable, the quality of materials is just as good as the GS but this car is a real POS! Am I being too hard on the car or even Lexus in general? I thought about that all the way to my office (2 hour drive) and I can say without a doubt that if this were my car and I got a great deal and paid $30k for it (which is not even possible), I would be livid! I would be so mad that I would have veins popping out of my head talking to Lexus reps about the incessant rattling.
You may be asking, where is he going with this? I guess the moral of the story is that I was initially impressed with the gadgets and overall design of my GS but I am very disappointed with the quality issues that I am seeing from a company that has a reputation for quality. The GS is a great product, my particular car has a tiny issue but it's still an issue because it shouldn't be there. A part used for production purposes only that has no useful or necessary function after production should not even be in the car let alone allowed to cause a rattle. The tranny problems with the ES should not be happening. The IS that I am driving should not be a POS after 6200 miles. It's almost like they have lost focus of what gave them their reputation in the first place. Toyota is not immune to these issues as well. Obviously, it is the same company and they have a stellar reputation for quality as well but I had a huge issue with them also. I had a 2005 Toyota Sienna Limited that I traded in for the GS because it was in the shop for over 30 consecutive days. They weren't able to fix the car and the dealership said they had no idea how to fix the problem I was having with the A/C system. It would cycle cold and warm every 30 seconds. 4 master certified techs looked at it, they pretty much replaced the whole system and could not fix it. I thought no big deal, things like that happen so I just traded it in and made it go away. I pretty much wrote off the whole ordeal as a fluke. I had a 2004 Toyota Camry SE 4cyl that was THE PERFECT CAR. Not a single problem, not a single rattle, not a single issue so I know that Toyota can build near perfect cars. It was the best $19,200 that I ever spent. I drove it 21k miles in 1 year and sold it for exactly $700 less than I paid for it. I wanted a V6 so I traded it in for a 2005 Solara SLE V6 that was just as reliable and perfect. I took a bath when I sold that one after a year as well because of the purchase price but it was perfect as well. Then I got the 2005 Sienna Limited and that's when my Toyota experience went sour. I really like the GS and my wife is already asking me when I am going to trade it in, but my answer remains the same. I love this car and I will keep it until the 4th gen GS comes out but I really hope Lexus gets their act together by then.
Not so much of a complaint as it is a summary of my thoughts after a 2 hour drive in the worst car I have ever driven. This is the "pursuit of perfection"? End of rant....
I took my GS in for the windshield locating pin TSIB (for the second time) and they gave me a 2007 IS loaner. It has 6200 miles on it and there are so many rattles that I am shocked that this is a Lexus product. They are all over the car including the dash (middle and sides), the moonroof, the center console, the rear shelf. EVERYWHERE! How does a car rattle like this after only 6200 miles. It's not a convertible, it's not a truck, this would be unacceptable even 20 years ago. How can this happen? It's a beautiful car, personally I think the lines are even better than the GS and the inside looks great, the instrument cluster is better than the GS, the seats are comfortable, the quality of materials is just as good as the GS but this car is a real POS! Am I being too hard on the car or even Lexus in general? I thought about that all the way to my office (2 hour drive) and I can say without a doubt that if this were my car and I got a great deal and paid $30k for it (which is not even possible), I would be livid! I would be so mad that I would have veins popping out of my head talking to Lexus reps about the incessant rattling.
You may be asking, where is he going with this? I guess the moral of the story is that I was initially impressed with the gadgets and overall design of my GS but I am very disappointed with the quality issues that I am seeing from a company that has a reputation for quality. The GS is a great product, my particular car has a tiny issue but it's still an issue because it shouldn't be there. A part used for production purposes only that has no useful or necessary function after production should not even be in the car let alone allowed to cause a rattle. The tranny problems with the ES should not be happening. The IS that I am driving should not be a POS after 6200 miles. It's almost like they have lost focus of what gave them their reputation in the first place. Toyota is not immune to these issues as well. Obviously, it is the same company and they have a stellar reputation for quality as well but I had a huge issue with them also. I had a 2005 Toyota Sienna Limited that I traded in for the GS because it was in the shop for over 30 consecutive days. They weren't able to fix the car and the dealership said they had no idea how to fix the problem I was having with the A/C system. It would cycle cold and warm every 30 seconds. 4 master certified techs looked at it, they pretty much replaced the whole system and could not fix it. I thought no big deal, things like that happen so I just traded it in and made it go away. I pretty much wrote off the whole ordeal as a fluke. I had a 2004 Toyota Camry SE 4cyl that was THE PERFECT CAR. Not a single problem, not a single rattle, not a single issue so I know that Toyota can build near perfect cars. It was the best $19,200 that I ever spent. I drove it 21k miles in 1 year and sold it for exactly $700 less than I paid for it. I wanted a V6 so I traded it in for a 2005 Solara SLE V6 that was just as reliable and perfect. I took a bath when I sold that one after a year as well because of the purchase price but it was perfect as well. Then I got the 2005 Sienna Limited and that's when my Toyota experience went sour. I really like the GS and my wife is already asking me when I am going to trade it in, but my answer remains the same. I love this car and I will keep it until the 4th gen GS comes out but I really hope Lexus gets their act together by then.
Not so much of a complaint as it is a summary of my thoughts after a 2 hour drive in the worst car I have ever driven. This is the "pursuit of perfection"? End of rant....
12-27-06, 05:21 AM
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I had a chance to drive the 2IS and now my cousin has a IS350. In my experience with both cars, they were perfectly quiet. The first one was an IS250 AWD and of course, it doesn't feel the same as a 350. I would defeintely consider the car if I weren't 6'2 and have kid.
12-27-06, 07:02 AM
#3
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While I was getting my Sirius and Remote Start installed yesterday at dealership, they gave me '07 IS250 AWD loaner with 7k miles on it. It was very quiet, but so damn slow to accelerate. Of course, this quietness doesn't mean anything. Ironically, when I had my ES350 tranny problems (the only real problem I had with that car), I drove a few ES350 loaners with 04/06 build. None of them had tranny problem, but they were rattling like hell.
12-27-06, 11:03 AM
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Man, it must be my luck. This particular IS is a total POS. I trust you guys and if you guys have quiet IS loaners, it may just be a case of being in the wrong car at the wrong time. Believe it or not, I appreciate the positive responses, it restores a little bit of confidence in the company for me. 
12-27-06, 11:15 AM
#5
I bought my GS coming from the 03 camry se which was awesome. I drove the shuut out of that thing and it was perfect..no rattles (well one maybe) but I was expecting something else out of the GS....my buddy had an 02 gs300 and it was quiet, we drove around a few times and not a rattle....mine on the other hand has a few dash rattles and the infamous windshield click...i dont want to take it in because i am afraid the car will get other issues.....2thfixer....make sure you look at your car carefully when you get it, especially the seat, if they will sit in your car for any dash repairs, the way they may sit can cause horrible crinkles in your leather. What i mean is if you sit on the seat and have your legs out the car, the side bolsters at the bottom part of the seat bend and get a fold and the leather being so soft crinklles and gets folds as well (which are permanent). Why should quality get worse when price is increasing above and beyond inflation and what is reasonable for the increased trechnology...I mean come on, should a nav / ML GS cost as much as a very nicely equipeed E350 ???? they do in so cal !!!
12-27-06, 11:41 AM
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2thfxr,
I'd love to see independent quantitative statistics (complaints per customer or warranty claims per vehicle) that prove me different, but my gut tells me Lexus quality has had to have declined from what it was 10 years ago. Now my "perception" is just that, a perception so I'd be curious to hear what others who have owned Lexus cars over that same period would have to say.
My perception is based on:
a) Everyone I know that has owned older model Lexus (say pre 2003) cars gives them nothing but praise. I can't remember the last time I heard someone complain about their older model Lexus car.
b) Every older model Lexus I've ever riden in has been quiet, tight and silky smooth. I can't say I ever recall sitting in one and going, this thing is a piece. My brother owns a 3 year old LX470 and a 10 year old LS400 and they're both solid, not a single squeak. They seem to run as tight and smooth as the day they were new.
c) Looking at older model CL forums (for previous gen ES, GS, etc.) and the posts from current users seem to be mostly positive. Yes, every now and again someone posts a major engine or transmission issue, but those seem to be few and far between.
d) When I decided to leave Infiniti for Lexus, I first checked out the ES350. I read the CL ES350 forum for a couple of months and was blown away by the problems some people seemed to be having and the sheer volume of negative to positive posts. Yes, its been debated that there are far more satisfied ES350 owners out there than there are dissatisfied ones, but I was still shocked at the difference in tone between the CL IS350/GS350 forums and the ES350 forum. Needless to say, I quickly discounted the ES and took a closer look at the GS. And I'm so happy I did.
So IMO here's the bottom line. As companies like Toyota have tried to grow share (to in turn grow revenue & profit) by expanding their target audience, I believe they've struggled to keep quality in check while keeping pace with the growth. Look at the growth Toyota/Lexus has experienced and its no wonder their struggling to keep up with quality. Have you ever worked in a company where growth takes off like a rocket and you're trying to ramp up systems, processes and people all at the same time you're trying to indocrinate your new hires on the foundational elements that made the company great to begin with. It's a nice problem to have but very challenging to manage through. Ask Google, I'm sure they're experiencing this in spades and they're a sofware company not a manufacturing outfit.
My last comment is this. Quality is relative to any category and the competitors in that category. Today, even with the problems I've read about relative to the ES, I still believe Lexus is the best quality brand in the luxury automotive segment. Would I be willing to switch to someone else if they could beat them on all the things I value in a car (compelling designs, quality build, smooth/quiet ride, luxury ammenities, and investment longevity, etc.), absolutely! But so long as Lexus keeps doing it collectively better than the other guys... well, their quality could (I say could be, not that it is) be less than stellar and I'll likely still be back for more. Hopefully Toyota/Lexus won't rest on their laurels and settle for being marginally better than the rest. That's certainly not what they were founded on, nor is it my definition of the "Relentless Pursuit of Perfection."
Well, there you have it. Just another unfounded and unsubstantiated CL member opinion.
I'd love to see independent quantitative statistics (complaints per customer or warranty claims per vehicle) that prove me different, but my gut tells me Lexus quality has had to have declined from what it was 10 years ago. Now my "perception" is just that, a perception so I'd be curious to hear what others who have owned Lexus cars over that same period would have to say.
My perception is based on:
a) Everyone I know that has owned older model Lexus (say pre 2003) cars gives them nothing but praise. I can't remember the last time I heard someone complain about their older model Lexus car.
b) Every older model Lexus I've ever riden in has been quiet, tight and silky smooth. I can't say I ever recall sitting in one and going, this thing is a piece. My brother owns a 3 year old LX470 and a 10 year old LS400 and they're both solid, not a single squeak. They seem to run as tight and smooth as the day they were new.
c) Looking at older model CL forums (for previous gen ES, GS, etc.) and the posts from current users seem to be mostly positive. Yes, every now and again someone posts a major engine or transmission issue, but those seem to be few and far between.
d) When I decided to leave Infiniti for Lexus, I first checked out the ES350. I read the CL ES350 forum for a couple of months and was blown away by the problems some people seemed to be having and the sheer volume of negative to positive posts. Yes, its been debated that there are far more satisfied ES350 owners out there than there are dissatisfied ones, but I was still shocked at the difference in tone between the CL IS350/GS350 forums and the ES350 forum. Needless to say, I quickly discounted the ES and took a closer look at the GS. And I'm so happy I did.
So IMO here's the bottom line. As companies like Toyota have tried to grow share (to in turn grow revenue & profit) by expanding their target audience, I believe they've struggled to keep quality in check while keeping pace with the growth. Look at the growth Toyota/Lexus has experienced and its no wonder their struggling to keep up with quality. Have you ever worked in a company where growth takes off like a rocket and you're trying to ramp up systems, processes and people all at the same time you're trying to indocrinate your new hires on the foundational elements that made the company great to begin with. It's a nice problem to have but very challenging to manage through. Ask Google, I'm sure they're experiencing this in spades and they're a sofware company not a manufacturing outfit.
My last comment is this. Quality is relative to any category and the competitors in that category. Today, even with the problems I've read about relative to the ES, I still believe Lexus is the best quality brand in the luxury automotive segment. Would I be willing to switch to someone else if they could beat them on all the things I value in a car (compelling designs, quality build, smooth/quiet ride, luxury ammenities, and investment longevity, etc.), absolutely! But so long as Lexus keeps doing it collectively better than the other guys... well, their quality could (I say could be, not that it is) be less than stellar and I'll likely still be back for more. Hopefully Toyota/Lexus won't rest on their laurels and settle for being marginally better than the rest. That's certainly not what they were founded on, nor is it my definition of the "Relentless Pursuit of Perfection."
Well, there you have it. Just another unfounded and unsubstantiated CL member opinion.
12-27-06, 11:48 AM
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Sbrown, well said.
I remember reading an article somewhere stating how Toyota is climbing to #1 soon. A reporter asked the CEO Toyota in Japan what is the most important thing once Toyota becomes #1. The CEO said "Continue to maintain high quality". With that as the #1 objective in the company, I think we will continue to see high quality built cars from Toy/Lex.
I remember reading an article somewhere stating how Toyota is climbing to #1 soon. A reporter asked the CEO Toyota in Japan what is the most important thing once Toyota becomes #1. The CEO said "Continue to maintain high quality". With that as the #1 objective in the company, I think we will continue to see high quality built cars from Toy/Lex.
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12-27-06, 01:06 PM
#8
Man, it must be my luck. This particular IS is a total POS. I trust you guys and if you guys have quiet IS loaners, it may just be a case of being in the wrong car at the wrong time. Believe it or not, I appreciate the positive responses, it restores a little bit of confidence in the company for me.
Or, maybe your just too used to the Porsche which just booted toyota off the top of the JD Power Initial Quality ranking
but even when I had my Boxster S, i was never treated with the courtesy and respect that I receive at a lexus dealership at the porsche dealership.. maybe it was because i was 30 and looked like 25, but thats no excuse.. specially when i pulled into the lot in a porsche..
12-27-06, 04:37 PM
#9
I can say my 95 SC300 doesn't have any sqeaks and rattles. To me, the car is one of the best ever ceated. Does it have faults?? Sure. the brakes stink. I don't think the brakes in my 06 GS are that great either.
The SC line all seem to have had a problem with a leaky distributor o-ring that would waste on the alternator if not caught. I don't believe they ever resolved it. The 2GS line had problems with vibration at high speed. If I remember correctly the LS line had a few inherent problems. Looks like Lexus has never been perfect. It's just these interior squeaks that have people up in arms. I thinks it's because of a change in materials. In the older cars, the dash was made of this leather-like material that was solid as a rock. But over time it showed age as most dash's do. Starting with the 3GS, the dash is now made of a hard rubber-like material that seems to be heat and age resistant. It's also causing a lot of squeaks. I'm sure they'll eventually get it right.
The SC line all seem to have had a problem with a leaky distributor o-ring that would waste on the alternator if not caught. I don't believe they ever resolved it. The 2GS line had problems with vibration at high speed. If I remember correctly the LS line had a few inherent problems. Looks like Lexus has never been perfect. It's just these interior squeaks that have people up in arms. I thinks it's because of a change in materials. In the older cars, the dash was made of this leather-like material that was solid as a rock. But over time it showed age as most dash's do. Starting with the 3GS, the dash is now made of a hard rubber-like material that seems to be heat and age resistant. It's also causing a lot of squeaks. I'm sure they'll eventually get it right.
12-27-06, 04:51 PM
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Eye Kutr, it sounds like you had a Camry SE experience just like mine. It was PERFECT and bulletproof. Rattles? No way, nothing remotely resembling a rattle. I had an experience in 1995 where I was rear ended on the highway. My 750iL ended up in the shop for 6 weeks and I had a 1995 GS300 loaner. It was also perfect. That's what made my buy a Lexus in the first place. I almost got a 2007 Camry SE but I thought I was being smart by paying a little more to get a Lexus so I could get a quieter, higher quality car but I don't feel like that's what I got. It all makes me wonder about what's going on with Toyota and I think you guys nailed it on the head. It's probably just growing pains or too much technology. You can't be perfect 100% of the time and I don't expect 100% perfection. However, with Lexus' reputation for quality and customer service, I shouldn't feel like I need to prove the existence of a rattle that's well documented by their own TSIB and I shouldn't have to cross my fingers hoping that the rattle gets fixed.
kuch123, my Porsche experience has been great. They treat me like a king and they have gone above and beyond by doing things like changing my battery despite the fact that I drained it and caused sulfation by leaving my radar detector on. They changed my $140 painted wheel crests when they started peeling. They swapped out all of my brake rotors because the hubs showed a little bit of rust and while they were at it, they changed out the lug nuts and locks. I don't recall but I think they changed out the pads while they were at it. I have no complaints about Porsche service. In fact, I have had stellar service with my BMWs and Mercedes as well. I have no complaints about service with German makes. Even though they have more problems in general, I don't have any complaints about that as well. Every problem that I have had has been repaired without incident or any hassles whatsoever. There is no doubt as to whether a problem will be fixed. It's as simple as telling them what's wrong, dropping it off, and picking it up. Sometimes I don't even have to pick it up, they come to the house and get it.
The funny thing is that I bet I could go out and buy a Toyota Corolla that could be driven for 250k+ miles without any problems at all.
kuch123, my Porsche experience has been great. They treat me like a king and they have gone above and beyond by doing things like changing my battery despite the fact that I drained it and caused sulfation by leaving my radar detector on. They changed my $140 painted wheel crests when they started peeling. They swapped out all of my brake rotors because the hubs showed a little bit of rust and while they were at it, they changed out the lug nuts and locks. I don't recall but I think they changed out the pads while they were at it. I have no complaints about Porsche service. In fact, I have had stellar service with my BMWs and Mercedes as well. I have no complaints about service with German makes. Even though they have more problems in general, I don't have any complaints about that as well. Every problem that I have had has been repaired without incident or any hassles whatsoever. There is no doubt as to whether a problem will be fixed. It's as simple as telling them what's wrong, dropping it off, and picking it up. Sometimes I don't even have to pick it up, they come to the house and get it.
The funny thing is that I bet I could go out and buy a Toyota Corolla that could be driven for 250k+ miles without any problems at all.
12-27-06, 05:28 PM
#11
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i've been with lexus since 98 and you can see in my sig the various ones we've had. the very first lexus in my immediate family was my mom's 97 LS400 which was a fantastic car and the reason i fell in love w/ lexus i decided to get one myself in 98.
i would say that there has been a change in overall quality over the years which is definitely attributable to its rapid growth and increasing sales volume.
it's funny though - recently i went in with our near-problem free GS and was telling my advisor about how creaky and embarrassing the center console armrest is. we played around with it a few minutes and he said, "yeah i think it's just another example of lexus overengineering stuff again." the little slider for the armrest coupled with the dual level holder inside just is too much for something as minor as a center console. why they did it we will never know, but the center consoles in our previous GS's and SC430 were simple and trouble free.
in any case, the point is your perception is correct that older models seem a little more bulletproof with respect to the numerous knick knacks in the car. now the cars are so fancy that every minor detail is overanalyzed and sometimes the simple stuff should be left simple!!
i love our GS, and will probably be a GS "lifer", but i must say that i was impressed with my Audi's fit and finish and how "tight" everything felt from Day 1 (the Audi is our first non-lexus since 98!). going over bumps, uneven surfaces don't bother me at all. in a lexus you will certainly feel like you are stressing out the fit and finish. in the Audi all that potential noisemaking is mitigated somehow ...
i would say that there has been a change in overall quality over the years which is definitely attributable to its rapid growth and increasing sales volume.
it's funny though - recently i went in with our near-problem free GS and was telling my advisor about how creaky and embarrassing the center console armrest is. we played around with it a few minutes and he said, "yeah i think it's just another example of lexus overengineering stuff again." the little slider for the armrest coupled with the dual level holder inside just is too much for something as minor as a center console. why they did it we will never know, but the center consoles in our previous GS's and SC430 were simple and trouble free.
in any case, the point is your perception is correct that older models seem a little more bulletproof with respect to the numerous knick knacks in the car. now the cars are so fancy that every minor detail is overanalyzed and sometimes the simple stuff should be left simple!!
i love our GS, and will probably be a GS "lifer", but i must say that i was impressed with my Audi's fit and finish and how "tight" everything felt from Day 1 (the Audi is our first non-lexus since 98!). going over bumps, uneven surfaces don't bother me at all. in a lexus you will certainly feel like you are stressing out the fit and finish. in the Audi all that potential noisemaking is mitigated somehow ...
12-27-06, 05:29 PM
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Robert - I know you had to vent, but IMO you basically need to get the dealer (or another dealer) to fix this issue for you. I agree, it's unacceptable. In FL, we'd document each trip and invoke the lemon law after trip # 3 and make them buy it back if they cannot fix it. Right now, my 07 GS350 is pretty close to perfect... no rattles whatsoever... I hope it stays that way, but time will tell. You should have a quiet car.... mine is, and it was built in late SEP in Japan... it probably has those assembly line insertion guides for the window too... not sure, I need to look at it tmrw. to tell you. Anyway, get the district office on the phone and get them to take action... I bet they solve it quickly for you, esp. with the chance that this negative press here on CL is getting the word out more so than they would like. Good luck with it... and make them give you an LS loaner in the mean time ;-) j/k .......
12-27-06, 06:22 PM
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2thfixr and GreatSmile - two dentists perhaps. 
And EyeKutr - you do lasik?
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming...
And EyeKutr - you do lasik?
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming...
12-27-06, 06:23 PM
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You have both the A6 and the GS430. Can you compair the two? The A6 rattle free?
12-27-06, 06:24 PM
#15
Great thread, 2thfxr.
I agree. Quality has declined. My 99 GS400 has its share of squeeks and rattles, but it also has 92,000 miles on it, so that's to be expected. Everyone who rides in my car is so impressed that a 7.5 year old car with nearly 100,000 miles can look and feel almost new. It doesn't sound like we can say that today about the newer models.
I will also say that service has definitely declined as well. I've read all of the ES350 service issues (not the problems with the car, but the problems with the dealers servicing them), and it's pretty unbelievable. I was going to post this up as a separate thread, but here's a good example of why Lexus isn't the same company that it was 10 years ago.
Here's an incident that happened to me today in the service department. While getting a car wash at Lexus a few months ago, they accidentally ripped off one of the molding strips that runs along the bottom of the passenger door on my GS. I saw it immediately, and brought it to my service advisor's attention. He said no problem, and he proceeded to tell me that he would order a new one and that they would take care of it for me. Okay, great, problem solved. Apparently, the part came in, but my service advisor never claimed it, so they sent it back to wherever they got it from. This happened a few more times until finally yesterday I went in there and my advisor promised me that the part would be in today. I went to pick it up today, and the parts department manager (yes, not just a stock person, but the manager of the parts department) brought me the part and presented me with an invoice for $30. Okay, no big deal, he didn't know that my service advisor was taking care of it for me. Not his fault. So I walked out of the parts department and handed the invoice to my advisor, and he said to come back with him to the parts department to take care of it. When we got back to the parts department, my service advisor explained to the parts manager that the part should be expensed to the dealership because the molding was ripped off in the wash. The parts manager rolled his eyes, looked at me, and then said in a condescending voice "Come on. There's no way that happened in the wash. These things fall off all the time. I replace 2-3 of them on the GS every week." My advisor tried to explain the situation to him, but he wouldn't listen, and with that, he grabbed the invoice and stormed away. I left the dealership with a sour bad taste in my mouth. How dare he question the integrety of a customer, and not just that, but in front of me and the service advisor as well. About 2 miles down the road, I turned around and drove right back to the dealership, part in hand, to give it back to them, tell them to keep it and do other unpleasant things with it, and that I would buy the stinkin' part somewhere else. As I walked into the dealership, with steam coming out of my ears, I was intercepted by my service advisor who profusely apologized for the conduct of the parts manager. He basically begged me to keep the part, that he would talk to the parts manager, that it would never happen again, and that he would somehow make it up to me. At that point, I still felt like walking back to the parts department to shove the part up the parts manager's a$$, but I guess when you put it in perspective, there's worse things in the world to get worked up over.
Anyway, my point -- this never would have happened 10 years ago. Back then, Lexus would have bent over backwards to make the situation right for me. I wouldn't expect this treatment from a Ford dealership, much less a Lexus dealership.
e
I agree. Quality has declined. My 99 GS400 has its share of squeeks and rattles, but it also has 92,000 miles on it, so that's to be expected. Everyone who rides in my car is so impressed that a 7.5 year old car with nearly 100,000 miles can look and feel almost new. It doesn't sound like we can say that today about the newer models.
I will also say that service has definitely declined as well. I've read all of the ES350 service issues (not the problems with the car, but the problems with the dealers servicing them), and it's pretty unbelievable. I was going to post this up as a separate thread, but here's a good example of why Lexus isn't the same company that it was 10 years ago.
Here's an incident that happened to me today in the service department. While getting a car wash at Lexus a few months ago, they accidentally ripped off one of the molding strips that runs along the bottom of the passenger door on my GS. I saw it immediately, and brought it to my service advisor's attention. He said no problem, and he proceeded to tell me that he would order a new one and that they would take care of it for me. Okay, great, problem solved. Apparently, the part came in, but my service advisor never claimed it, so they sent it back to wherever they got it from. This happened a few more times until finally yesterday I went in there and my advisor promised me that the part would be in today. I went to pick it up today, and the parts department manager (yes, not just a stock person, but the manager of the parts department) brought me the part and presented me with an invoice for $30. Okay, no big deal, he didn't know that my service advisor was taking care of it for me. Not his fault. So I walked out of the parts department and handed the invoice to my advisor, and he said to come back with him to the parts department to take care of it. When we got back to the parts department, my service advisor explained to the parts manager that the part should be expensed to the dealership because the molding was ripped off in the wash. The parts manager rolled his eyes, looked at me, and then said in a condescending voice "Come on. There's no way that happened in the wash. These things fall off all the time. I replace 2-3 of them on the GS every week." My advisor tried to explain the situation to him, but he wouldn't listen, and with that, he grabbed the invoice and stormed away. I left the dealership with a sour bad taste in my mouth. How dare he question the integrety of a customer, and not just that, but in front of me and the service advisor as well. About 2 miles down the road, I turned around and drove right back to the dealership, part in hand, to give it back to them, tell them to keep it and do other unpleasant things with it, and that I would buy the stinkin' part somewhere else. As I walked into the dealership, with steam coming out of my ears, I was intercepted by my service advisor who profusely apologized for the conduct of the parts manager. He basically begged me to keep the part, that he would talk to the parts manager, that it would never happen again, and that he would somehow make it up to me. At that point, I still felt like walking back to the parts department to shove the part up the parts manager's a$$, but I guess when you put it in perspective, there's worse things in the world to get worked up over.
Anyway, my point -- this never would have happened 10 years ago. Back then, Lexus would have bent over backwards to make the situation right for me. I wouldn't expect this treatment from a Ford dealership, much less a Lexus dealership.
e