CarMonkey

No AAAS.

All I'm saying is that there was no "knock me back in my seat" acceleration as I have been reading.

I agree that once it got going it quickly and smoothly gained speed.

Jace7

I easily go about 120mpg, and obviously am passing everyone, but although it feels fast relativ to other cars and stationary objects, it's silent and smooth beyond belief. When I want to track, I take my 550i. COrnering is incredible....
Besides the articulated backs and the cornering in my 550i, I drive my 450h everyday and am more impressed.
And don't even get me started on the POS nav system they have in the BMW's.....
Lexus nav is much better!

CarMonkey

OK. Redrove the 450h. I was much more impressed with the acceleration. Made sure it was it was set on Power. It was quick and the handling was not as bad as I had thought.

My problem: I also drove the MB E550 and the Infiniti M45.

The E550 was the best performing car- speed and handling-wise I have ever driven. The M45 was a pleasant surprise in that it was actually faster than the 450h at the start and had all the tech features you could ask for.

If I had unlimted $ the decision would be easy (E550). However, for $4000-5000 less the 450h and M45 are great cars.

What to do?

LexFather

550 is a beast, we are talking more than the last gen E55 in horsepower!!! What a car (and IMO the best looking of this class), M45 is fast too but never has gotten an acceleration time better than a GS 450h in any magazine, it clearly has the "value" equation going for it.

GS 450h is best of both worlds, IMO.

Jace7

+1 the GS450h.

sdbrandon

Hybrids are pure marketing for those folks who think they are driving a green car. It will take years to recoup any gas savings. It actually takes more energy and natural resources to make and dispose of a Hybrid.

Jace7

didn't buy the car for the gas milage, and I couldn't care about "build green" crap.
I bought this car, b/c it's simply the best GS out there and it has instant acceleration and no shifting, oh and it's super smooth. Superior Car.
I couldn't care about the gas savings or the mpg, it's simply the best GS out there and with the features as I just stated it's a level above the rest.

LexFather

It is not pure marketing. The cars are green. They have the lowest emissions of any new car. In Europe,where Emissions are taxed, hybrids save thousands of dollars and the planet. True, if you don't drive much, the expected MPG gains will not save you money, however if you drive TONS, hybrids make tons of sense and the gas savings will be felt by the consumer.

You are also missing the HUGE fact, Lexus hybrids are TUNED for PERFORMANCE. They are not tuned for full economy like the Prius.

Think of it as a super-charger, or turbo. Its "cool" when a car has that but "useless" when a car makes as much power as a turbo with no gas loss in MPG right

I read that report about it costs more to make and break a hybrid. Why don't they just weigh all owners of cars as well, since more weight, means less economy.

The hybrid hate must end, it is the future. It is not the solution to all problems but credit toyota and Lexus for leading the way in unchartered territory.

sdbrandon

True, but with a 450H you are tied to Lexus dealers for repairs. No independent shops will be able to work on the thing. That is where these cars will kill you long term.

JeffTsai

iTrader: (1)

Isn't that why the hybrids have that extra long warranty on the powertrain and batteries? 10 years 100k miles or something like that? That was to entice more buyers and reduce thier uncertainty for long term ownership. Or was I misinformed?

Jace7

you are correct Jeff. I'm now confused of the point brandon is even trying to make. All cars will have repairs associated with them, some just have less than others. Why would I even want to take it anywhere else then Lexus. They would be the best at fixing it, since they did built it in the first place. You can go to Goodyear if you want, I wouldn't even go there for advice on tires.

LexFather

If you bought a 60k car, why would anyone take it to an independent shop? This is one of the things about hybrids, the dealer more than likely has to take care of it. Should you not take your car to the dealer anyway, in most cases?

I've found you might save a few bucks at independent shops but some prefer the warranty and piece of mind of the dealer.

You are saying kill in the long term and the GS 450h hasn't been out a year and we cannot compare the 1st gens of hybrids to the new ones.

We haven't had them long enough to see the long term negatives.

davidsong

dude, wat do u expect?? its a lexus!! just drive ur bimmer if u dont like it. I drive a lexus for its durability, and a mercedes sl600 for its instant speed and status. SO just do what i have done, and stop complaining.

Jace7

Lexus, Mercs, and BMW's I somwhat agree are a status thing to a degree for some people, but in my mind they are all just cars. The ones who think these are status cars haven't purchased "real" cars. Absolutly no offense david just stating my opinion. You have an awesome 600, but it's still just a Merc. These cars are nothing to "drool over" special. Get a McLarren or a Ford GT, or a Lambo or even a Ferarri, something limited you don't see alot of. Those are more status/cool cars in my mind. The first 3 to me are just cars... good cars, but still just cars.
People who get cars just as a status thing, get them mainly b/c they want for people to think of them as more important than they actually are. I can't stand people who say, I bought this because of the brand... Blah blah... By it b/c it is the best, if it actually is, not because of what someone else will think. I care less that other people think. Do it for yourself...
And why all the complaining... there's really no need.. is there?...

hrthrb

Yeah, the POWER mode is good for pushed-back-into-your-seat starts. It's not fast if you don't put your foot into it, as the electric is the first to start. But once you give it the gas, you're off! It's so smooth that I don't feel like I'm going at speed. I'm tempted to test it against my 99 ES300 to be sure. In SPORT mode, it handles like the GS 350AWD we tested. I can't say if it's better than a 545i, but it sure pushes my buttons.

2007 GS 450h, black onyx on cashmere, ML
1999 ES 300, white on tan - it's for sale! in Virginia