Modeler

I'm all set to go lease my new 450h this Saturday, when I realize that even though BMW 550i would be $13,000 more expensive for me, the lease payments would be identical. This is because of the unrealistic residual values and low money factors used by BMW.

My 450h 36 months/12K miles lease provides for a 53% residual value, and carries a 0.00245 money factor.

BMW 550i, on the other hand, has a residual of 61% with 12K annual miles, and money rate of 0.0015!

I've never driven the 550i because of the unreasonable prices, but I always thought I would like it. So last night I'm all worried that I'm making a mistake going with the 450h when I can lease BMW for the same amount of money. So I run to the local BMW dealership and drive 550i, and, thankfully, don't like it as much as the 450h.

I thought that 550i drove like a dream! Amazing handling and connection to the road, good engine power and sound. I also liked the 20-way adjustable sport seat. But I thought that on everything else 450h handily beat the BMW. The ergonimics was clearly inferior: from the sun visor that didn't have an extension, to the complete lack of middle-console storage (except for tiny cell phone compartment), to the CD changer in the glove box, to the stupid iDrive and terrible voice recognition.

Anyway, I'm glad I drove the 550i, because I would not wonder now whether I would've liked it more. But I thought I'd post this because, just like me, most people don't realize that leasing BMW is a lot cheaper than Lexus.

Lexmex

I have driven the 550i at the track (some guy didn't know how to launch properly so he gave me a crack at it) and very, very nice. My father was with me so he gave it a go and very impressive acceleration. Still can't compare it to a 450h (no Lexus down here), but am going up to Vegas in March so perhaps I can form an opinion.

Jace7

Well from someone who owns both, They are both incredible cars in their own way.

My 550i, with the HUD, 20 comfort seats, sports package, and sport ride, along with the superior steering wheel are great plus'.
My GS450h, although it doesn't have those mentioned above is smoother, instant acceleration, in the long run will be better with less maint. It also has the Lazer cruise, but with the BMW the lazer cruise doesn't actually apply breaks to the car to stop, where the GS actually breaks the car.

My GS450h does have the AAAS, but the 550i, has it's sports package with the same type AAAS, but far superior in handling. The 550i is more or a sports car. The GS is more luxury/sports.

The 550i isn't as nice, besides the seats on the inside. Nav isn't as good as Lexus Nav.
Climate control is better in BMW, but Lexus has everything right at your fingertips. ALthough the i-control is great once you know it, and you can program shortcuts, the Lexus is easier from the beginning and I just like it better.

The 550i has NO RATTLES and is completely sound proof. Amazing.
My GS450h, well, I had the windshield rattle but after the 4th time it's gone. But still no comparision to the sturdy ride and sound proof feeling.
But they each serve their own purpose.
If I wan't a car that corners on rails and is awesome, I drive the 550i. No comparison,

But if I want what I mentioned abot the GS, well I drive it.

Both great cars in their own way.

You made a great choice going with the GS450 though.

bearsteve

This thread is perfect for me since i am right now trying to decide between cars. I have owned a Lexus SC400 since 97, first a 96 and then a 99 and love the car. Alas, it has 108K miles and i need a bigger vehicle. I looked at the 450H and was real excited until I saw the trunk, which is smaller than my SC and unacceptable. I was considering the GS430 until i realized that the GS350 has comparable performance stats at the low end. I am used to the V-8, so the V-6 is not really what I am looking for. The GS 460 sounds like just what the Dr. ordered, but is so far just a rumor with an expected date of this fall, which is too late, i am not looking to wait that long.

My choices are then going with the 450H knowing that I will be using the back seat as a trunk or the 550i. I am going to be testing both cars, but you really can't get a feel for a car off of a test drive. I have done a bunch of reading on this board an elsewhere and have decided what I really want is a 550i made by Lexus. Modding out a Lexus is not for me as I am not real big on modifications other than wheels. I like reading Jace's posts since he has both. I have looked at the Infiniti and am not thrilled with the look of the car and have dismissed any MB.

edit: Guess I should have added, I will probably lease with low mileage and then buy of off lease after three years as i put about 18k on a car a year. With the BMW, I can get the extended warranty for about 1700 which would give me 4 years free maintenance and 6 years 100k bumper to bumper.

uplusd

If your leasing then at least with the BMW you wouldn't have to worry about paying for maintenance on a car that you most likely won't be keeping.

Jace7

First of all is price an issue?
Becuase the 550i I have I loaded it up and purchased it for about 81K.
My GS450 it came loaded which was base sticker at 65K before the HID fogs, 3M and stuff like that.
So after tax my 550i is about 84K, and the GS is about 70K not quite.

You have some great points. The GS450h, has NO trunk space, and I am in real estate, and well, it doesn't work for me at all. That's one thing I HATE about the car. Oh well.

The 550i, is a different car, not the interior finish of the 450h, but still VERY nice in it's own ways. It serves it's own purpose. More or a sports car.

If you have the $$, I personally like the new MB E550, I think. Its the bigger, newer, faster engine, with a very nice interior.

TBMW will have some prob with the VANOS later in life, the GS will probably be flawless, I am saying that b/c it's a lexus, but it's the hybrid so I can't say for sure, too new of a car.

As for the Infinity, NO WAY. stay away, even if you go with the M over the G, (just from memory) if wrong, please excuse, but even is fo, you won't be as happy as either of the two I've mentioned.

It's a personal choice,....

What are you wanting in a car, maybe I can help you narrow it down. I have had the 450h for 4 months now, and the 550i for 3. SO i can help you in deciding, just let me know what you need/want in your next car.

Modeler

You know, I completely agree with you on the 550i vs 450h, but you're dead wrong on the Infiniti. I'm not thrilled with the looks of the M45, but it is a VERY VERY nice car inside. It was actually my first choice before I tried 450h. The Navigation system and voice control beat the pants off of both the BMW's and Lexus' systems! I mean, there's just no comparison of the voice control for entering destination address: M45's works every time, BMW and Lexus work very rarely.

Ergonomics in general is very similar to that of the 450h.

The power is as good as 550i's and the handling is pretty darn close.

Yeah, I did not wet myself when I drove M45, as when I laid my hands on that fat steering wheel of the 550i, but it's a fairly close contest.

bearsteve

The MB is above the price limit, but the 550 the way i want it is not. I need trunk space as I work out of my car and would be uncomfortable having things in plain site. I like performance. I want to know when i step down the car will move no matter what speed i am at. I also like tight cornering. I miss the cornering ability of my first car, a 91 Supra; that thing cornered on a rail. When I went to the SC, I missed that tight feel in the curves. By today's standards, my sc is bare bones in the luxury department, a rough ride and has none of the now standard accoutrements. I like to feel and hear my car, I enjoy listening to the roar of a well tuned engine and feeling the road, although not every bump on it.

Don't get me wrong, I am no Mario Andretti and 75-80% of my driving will not use all the car has to offer. I recently borrowed my fathers LS400 and, while a great ride, it was too big, quiet and luxurious for my taste.

I guess what is holding me back from the 550 is it does not come with the Lexus reliability. What is holding me back from the 450h is the trunk and some of what i have read about its handeling.

My problem with the M is strictly looks and transmission, I can't get over the front end plain grill and the large *** it has. If it was a better looking car with a 6 speed for improved mpg, I would be driving it by now.

Gojirra99

If you are considering the GS450h, make sure you get the **** option, it still won't drive/feel like a BMW, but it improves handling a lot.

Jace7

Bear, what options specifically would you get on each the 550i, and the 450h?

The BMW is louder, handles better around corners by far. But the GS with AAAS, is wonderful!!!

The HUD is awesome in the 550i, if you even want, but the nav stinks.
No touch screen, no DVD bypass to watch movies.
Sound system in the 550I, IS BETTER. More speakers more watts, and I think it's 6.1 or 7.1 Surround sound.
I'll check.


Explain your options for each...

bearsteve

BMW options:

sport package
active steering
cold weather
comfort access
sirrius radio
premium sound

The active cruise control, heads up display and night vision do not interest me. DVD watching does not interest me

The Lexus would have the
****
NAvigation
premium sound
Xirius
small options, cargo net and such

The PCS and the DRCC do not interset me

Modeler

Do you mean that it's better than the stock stereo on the 450h, or the Mark Levinson system? I didn't even turn on the stereo on the 550i I drove last night. I figured it would be comparable to the Mark Levinson I'm getting on the 450h.

I thought that all car magazines raved about the ML system and it is considered to be the top premium factory audio system available. Am I wrong?

Jace7

I was referring to the top lexus stereo system = ML
vs.
the top premium BMW sound system.

Personally I think that unless you are listening to a DVD-A in the ML, the system in the BMW is far better in every category and sound volume.
With a DVD-A in to "my" ears they are very similar.

Jace7

POSTED BEFORE:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BMW options:

sport package
active steering
cold weather
comfort access
sirrius radio
premium sound

The active cruise control, heads up display and night vision do not interest me. DVD watching does not interest me

The Lexus would have the
****
NAvigation
premium sound
Xirius
small options, cargo net and such

The PCS and the DRCC do not interset me

MY THOUGHTS:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ah. ok on my BMW I Have and would recommend.

Yes on the HUD,
Yes on the Premium sound
No on the active cruise, worthless, doesn't even apply breaks, just lets off gas. = worthless in my mind.
YES on the sports package!!
Yes on the variable active steering.
Yes on the cold weather
Yes on the Comfort access.
For me, I dont care about sirius.
I also have the night vision which althought I don't think it's worth what they charge, I do think it is worth it. Far better than the MB night vision. different tech. BMW is better.
You didn't say anything about, but I also opted for the rear seat airbags. I would opt for it if I was you. gotta protect the ones in the rear.

As for Lexus, I would say yes to every option you listed above for considereation, but I also feel the pre collision system is worth getting.

I couldn't make a decision between the two cars we are talking about that's why I have both, but please let me know what you decide and how you like it. Also, post some pics either PM me if BMW or post to the CL board if you choose the 450h.

Both are great cars.

CarMonkey

Anyone know if the Mercedes E550 has good residuals and rate factors like BMW?