GS300AWD vs ES350 Comparitive Mini-Review
02-05-07, 02:08 PM
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GS300AWD vs ES350 Comparitive Mini-Review
In December the dealer had my GS in for service: the infamous pull-the-engine-to-fix-an-oil-leak procedure, and also to fix the equally infamous winshield/cowl rattle. By the time they futzed around with trying to avoid pulling the engine (and had to pull it anyway), and pulling/reinstalling the dash only to find out that I was right and the rattle really was the cowl (and wait for a redesigned cowl to arrive), I was in an ES350 loaner for two weeks. Having come from an ES300, it was an interesting experience to try out the next generation after living with a 3rd-gen GS for ten months.
ENGINE
Ayup, that 350cc V6 sure has some power. Had I come straight from my '02 ES300, I would surely have been in nirvana. My biggest complaint on my ES was that it simply could not get out of it's own way when pushed, especially at cruising speeds. This was an immense disappointment after my '93 and '98 ES's, which were both very responsive by comparison. But the ES350 has plenty of pull, and you can get it up to highway speed in no time.
Compared to the GS, the ES feels like it has a smoother power curve, whereas the GS takes getting up to 3000RPM or so before the exhaust starts to sing and the torque starts to kick in. The GS isn't exactly underpowered, but the ES "takes off" a bit earlier from a standing stop.
Of course, some of that power is wasted in a front-drive car: it is very easy to chirp the tires from a stop, even on dry road. That basically never happens on the GS, no doubt because of the AWD.
HANDLING
No comparison, but then again, that's no surprise. The ES as smooth a car as you'll find, but it doesn't like its feathers ruffled. It's reasonably sure-footed in most quick maneuvers, but you quickly start to feel like you're pushing the edges. The GS always, always feels firmly planted to the ground, and seems to welcome spirited driving rather than chafing at it.
EXTERIOR STYLING
So far, I'm of the opinion that the GS and IS have seen the best rendering of L-Finesse in the entire lineup. The ES350 looked promising in photos, but I was underwhelmed by it in person. That said, it is worlds better than the previous design. I bought the '02 when it first came out, mostly being wowed by the interior and the availability of Nav, both of which were a big step up from my '98. But I didn't like the exterior styling, and my opinion of it only got worse over time. So it's nice to have the ES look respectible again. Had I been coming from my '02, I would have been pleased. Coming from a GS, not so much.
INTERIOR STYLING
The previous ES had a really, really nice interior. I can't say that the new one is really all that much better, which speaks more to how well they did five years ago rather than any deficiency of current design. I do prefer the GS on nearly all counts. The quality is definitely better for starters---minor things like the steering wheel buttons, for example.
Yet in some respects the comparison is unfair: the lines in the GS interior are simply amazing---every line has a purpose, every shape conforms to the same design language. It's a delight to sit in the GS and for the first time really notice these things and see how there are zero loose ends. So while the ES interior is very nice, it's more of a lateral move from the previous design, and just isn't on the same plane as the GS.
One thing I did like on the ES was the gauges. They do a nice trick where there's a reflective ring near the outer part of the needle, which acts to subtly refect the light from the needle. Hard to describe, but a nice touch when you see it in person.
COMFORT
A couple of years ago I contemplated going from my ES300 to an ES330. Fortunately I ended up in an ES330 loaner over a weekend, and found a deal-killer: the seats. Something about the construction of the ventilated seats really didn't work for me, and I found them uncomfortable, especially on a long trip. The ES350 seats are better, but still not quite as good as the GS. This is, obviously, very subjective.
I prefer the cup-holders on the GS, and doubly-prefer the GS's center console. The GS is bigger and has a much more reasonable opening mechanism. The ES's is gimmicky and would become increasingly annoying over time.
Everything else was pretty much on par---the seat heaters, memory settings, etc all worked as expected. I managed to dial in decent settings on the seats and steering wheel, and after many hours of driving I had no major comfort issues.
TECHNOLOGY
The ES didn't have Nav, which is probably a good thing
since it likely would have trounced what's in my GS. To my surprise, however, it did have Bluetooth, which is only available in the GS when you have Nav. A happy camper, I quickly paired my phone and was in business. The voice command system is a notch ahead of the GS, and dial-by-number worked very well---I definitely wish I had that (yes, the GS350 has it, I know). The downside of course is that without a Nav screen, you are forced to do everything by voice command, which can be much slower.
Unfortunately, I was very disappointed by the speakerphone. People on the other end had serious trouble hearing me, so the preset mic level is way too low. That's fixable in the GS via a hidden menu, hopefully there's something similar on the ES (and yes, I had to fix that on my GS, so part of the problem may be my RAZR V3). But the other problem was more serious. It sounded like there was some sort of automatic volume leveling circuit enabled on the speakers, and it was incredibly distracting. When my wife would call from her car and stop talking, the road noise from her car would just get louder and louder until I had trouble concentrating on what I was saying. Once she spoke again, the background noise went away. It was very strange---usually that sort if thing is done at the microphone, not on the receiving end. And this simply never happens on the GS's Bluetooth hands-free phone, so it's not her car kit at fault.
The ES had parking assist, but I noticed that there are fewer sensors than on the GS. Didn't really notice any problems though. It also had push-button start, which was good since I'm so addicted to it now on my GS.
OVERALL
While the ES is a quality car, it feels rather lightweight compared to the GS. Which again, speaks more to the quality of the GS than any problem with the ES. The doors and trunk feel and sound more solid on the GS. The interior has a richer feel to it. The GS is quieter at speed, and balances very well the desire to have a peaceful cruise on the highway yet jump to life when driven aggressively.
As I've hinted earlier in this review, based on my personal experience I'd be tickled to have come from an ES300 into the ES350. There's loads to love about the ES350, and they fixed nearly everything I disliked about the ES300. But having driven the GS300, I have no regrets at all, even after seeing what road I might have travelled.
ENGINE
Ayup, that 350cc V6 sure has some power. Had I come straight from my '02 ES300, I would surely have been in nirvana. My biggest complaint on my ES was that it simply could not get out of it's own way when pushed, especially at cruising speeds. This was an immense disappointment after my '93 and '98 ES's, which were both very responsive by comparison. But the ES350 has plenty of pull, and you can get it up to highway speed in no time.
Compared to the GS, the ES feels like it has a smoother power curve, whereas the GS takes getting up to 3000RPM or so before the exhaust starts to sing and the torque starts to kick in. The GS isn't exactly underpowered, but the ES "takes off" a bit earlier from a standing stop.
Of course, some of that power is wasted in a front-drive car: it is very easy to chirp the tires from a stop, even on dry road. That basically never happens on the GS, no doubt because of the AWD.
HANDLING
No comparison, but then again, that's no surprise. The ES as smooth a car as you'll find, but it doesn't like its feathers ruffled. It's reasonably sure-footed in most quick maneuvers, but you quickly start to feel like you're pushing the edges. The GS always, always feels firmly planted to the ground, and seems to welcome spirited driving rather than chafing at it.
EXTERIOR STYLING
So far, I'm of the opinion that the GS and IS have seen the best rendering of L-Finesse in the entire lineup. The ES350 looked promising in photos, but I was underwhelmed by it in person. That said, it is worlds better than the previous design. I bought the '02 when it first came out, mostly being wowed by the interior and the availability of Nav, both of which were a big step up from my '98. But I didn't like the exterior styling, and my opinion of it only got worse over time. So it's nice to have the ES look respectible again. Had I been coming from my '02, I would have been pleased. Coming from a GS, not so much.
INTERIOR STYLING
The previous ES had a really, really nice interior. I can't say that the new one is really all that much better, which speaks more to how well they did five years ago rather than any deficiency of current design. I do prefer the GS on nearly all counts. The quality is definitely better for starters---minor things like the steering wheel buttons, for example.
Yet in some respects the comparison is unfair: the lines in the GS interior are simply amazing---every line has a purpose, every shape conforms to the same design language. It's a delight to sit in the GS and for the first time really notice these things and see how there are zero loose ends. So while the ES interior is very nice, it's more of a lateral move from the previous design, and just isn't on the same plane as the GS.
One thing I did like on the ES was the gauges. They do a nice trick where there's a reflective ring near the outer part of the needle, which acts to subtly refect the light from the needle. Hard to describe, but a nice touch when you see it in person.
COMFORT
A couple of years ago I contemplated going from my ES300 to an ES330. Fortunately I ended up in an ES330 loaner over a weekend, and found a deal-killer: the seats. Something about the construction of the ventilated seats really didn't work for me, and I found them uncomfortable, especially on a long trip. The ES350 seats are better, but still not quite as good as the GS. This is, obviously, very subjective.
I prefer the cup-holders on the GS, and doubly-prefer the GS's center console. The GS is bigger and has a much more reasonable opening mechanism. The ES's is gimmicky and would become increasingly annoying over time.
Everything else was pretty much on par---the seat heaters, memory settings, etc all worked as expected. I managed to dial in decent settings on the seats and steering wheel, and after many hours of driving I had no major comfort issues.
TECHNOLOGY
The ES didn't have Nav, which is probably a good thing
since it likely would have trounced what's in my GS. To my surprise, however, it did have Bluetooth, which is only available in the GS when you have Nav. A happy camper, I quickly paired my phone and was in business. The voice command system is a notch ahead of the GS, and dial-by-number worked very well---I definitely wish I had that (yes, the GS350 has it, I know). The downside of course is that without a Nav screen, you are forced to do everything by voice command, which can be much slower. Unfortunately, I was very disappointed by the speakerphone. People on the other end had serious trouble hearing me, so the preset mic level is way too low. That's fixable in the GS via a hidden menu, hopefully there's something similar on the ES (and yes, I had to fix that on my GS, so part of the problem may be my RAZR V3). But the other problem was more serious. It sounded like there was some sort of automatic volume leveling circuit enabled on the speakers, and it was incredibly distracting. When my wife would call from her car and stop talking, the road noise from her car would just get louder and louder until I had trouble concentrating on what I was saying. Once she spoke again, the background noise went away. It was very strange---usually that sort if thing is done at the microphone, not on the receiving end. And this simply never happens on the GS's Bluetooth hands-free phone, so it's not her car kit at fault.
The ES had parking assist, but I noticed that there are fewer sensors than on the GS. Didn't really notice any problems though. It also had push-button start, which was good since I'm so addicted to it now on my GS.
OVERALL
While the ES is a quality car, it feels rather lightweight compared to the GS. Which again, speaks more to the quality of the GS than any problem with the ES. The doors and trunk feel and sound more solid on the GS. The interior has a richer feel to it. The GS is quieter at speed, and balances very well the desire to have a peaceful cruise on the highway yet jump to life when driven aggressively.
As I've hinted earlier in this review, based on my personal experience I'd be tickled to have come from an ES300 into the ES350. There's loads to love about the ES350, and they fixed nearly everything I disliked about the ES300. But having driven the GS300, I have no regrets at all, even after seeing what road I might have travelled.
02-05-07, 03:22 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
I do agree with everything you have described above 100%. I owned ES350 for 4 month since the middle of the summer, until I had 2 failed trannys and Lexus bought back my car which opened a door of opportunity to jump into GS350. For me, driving ES350 was boring, while GS350 is more fun. I was sold the moment I test drove GS. One thing you forgot to mention is interior roominess and trunk size of ES, both are bigger in ES. The ride in ES is very soft and floatty, some might like it better than GS sporty drive. I just think both cars are in a different category designed for a different audience. One thing you obviously not aware of is that infamous tranny flare issue (you can read more about it over at ES350 forum).
02-05-07, 06:32 PM
#5
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One thing you forgot to mention is interior roominess and trunk size of ES, both are bigger in ES. The ride in ES is very soft and floatty, some might like it better than GS sporty drive. I just think both cars are in a different category designed for a different audience. One thing you obviously not aware of is that infamous tranny flare issue (you can read more about it over at ES350 forum).
I have read about the tranny issue. I presume that will be fixed in later builds of the ES, and certainly didn't seem to be a problem in my loaner, so I didn't think that terribly relevant to my review.
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02-06-07, 06:59 PM
#9
Great writeup! But, you are incorrect on the Bluetooth.. My 06 has no NAV but I still have the Bluetooth.. just not the voice recognition, which i hear really doesn't work that well anyway.
02-08-07, 10:42 AM
#11
Additional comments on the ES350
yon, great review. I also had an '07 ES350 loaner for the past few days. Here are some additional comments.
The engine idle was smoother on the ES350 than on my GS300 AWD.
The ES350 definitely seemed quicker than my GS.
Fuel economy of the ES350 didn't seem as good as my GS.
Handlng of the ES350 was fair at best. No comparision to the GS.
Ride quality of the ES350 is very good with a much softer ride than my GS.
I could see much better (further illumiation distance) in the dark with the ES's headlights than my GS's HID auto leveling headlights.
Interior comfort of the ES was good. I liked the seats and thought they were comfortable. The GS's seats are more firm and I sit more into the seat rather than on the seat as in the ES. Neither have good thigh support (I'm tall). But I read that the ES has an optional seat extension for thigh support.
The ES's interior was very quiet with no rattles. Even with my GS just returning from the dealer from repairing dash noises, the ES was still quieter. Then again, the ES had less than 4000 miles. My GS was quiet with only 4000 miles too.
I still don't care for the rounded console on the ES where stuff rolls off of it. Also, the GS's long center console armrest is more comfortable than the ES's shorter arm rest.
Although the ES doesn't have the automatic trunk lid lock, the ES's trunk, which is sprung very lightly, closed and locked with ease. Actually, it closed easier than my GS's lid.
Overall, I think the ES350 is a big improvement over its ES predecessors. For a few moments I considered replacing my GS with an ES350. But after I had the ES for a few days I very much preferred my GS over the ES.
The engine idle was smoother on the ES350 than on my GS300 AWD.
The ES350 definitely seemed quicker than my GS.
Fuel economy of the ES350 didn't seem as good as my GS.
Handlng of the ES350 was fair at best. No comparision to the GS.
Ride quality of the ES350 is very good with a much softer ride than my GS.
I could see much better (further illumiation distance) in the dark with the ES's headlights than my GS's HID auto leveling headlights.
Interior comfort of the ES was good. I liked the seats and thought they were comfortable. The GS's seats are more firm and I sit more into the seat rather than on the seat as in the ES. Neither have good thigh support (I'm tall). But I read that the ES has an optional seat extension for thigh support.
The ES's interior was very quiet with no rattles. Even with my GS just returning from the dealer from repairing dash noises, the ES was still quieter. Then again, the ES had less than 4000 miles. My GS was quiet with only 4000 miles too.
I still don't care for the rounded console on the ES where stuff rolls off of it. Also, the GS's long center console armrest is more comfortable than the ES's shorter arm rest.
Although the ES doesn't have the automatic trunk lid lock, the ES's trunk, which is sprung very lightly, closed and locked with ease. Actually, it closed easier than my GS's lid.
Overall, I think the ES350 is a big improvement over its ES predecessors. For a few moments I considered replacing my GS with an ES350. But after I had the ES for a few days I very much preferred my GS over the ES.
02-08-07, 12:48 PM
#12
Excellent and thorough review. 
I agree with your conclusions. Even though the ES350 is a more powerful
car I prefer the gearing of the GS300 in ECT power mode.
I kept looking for an ECT power switch on the ES, but alas I could not
find one
I agree with your conclusions. Even though the ES350 is a more powerful
car I prefer the gearing of the GS300 in ECT power mode.
I kept looking for an ECT power switch on the ES, but alas I could not
find one
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