RiceMaster

They're waiting to call it the GS500. GS450H performance already matches a 4.5L type V8, so there's no point for a GS460. Another 6-8months will be about time for a GS refreshment. A detune version of the IF-500 V8 will definately give GS more edge over the competition.

doug_999

Then why do they keep saying they are using the 5-series as a benchmark?

GFerg

Do yall ever get tired of posting the same exact Lexus vs. BMW stuff in every thread?? Look a few threads down and its the same arguement!!

Before this turns into another heated debate, the thread title is about why Lexus is quiet about the GS460, not why some prefer a BMW to a Lexus (and vice versa).

marshmallo

On the other hand, DASHOCKER this was not supposed to be a thread
about BMW anyways. Honestly it's like what 1SICK says. You like a
BMW buy a BMW and stop contaminating these threads with BMW vs
Lexus arguments.

To make the point more clear :

AT THIS POINT IT'S YOU GUYS WHO ARE MAKING ME HATE BMW

I am going to try to get back on topic for a change :

We can speculate as to the reasons as to why the GS460 has slipped
under the radar, but here may be a few candidates :

1) LS460 is higher priority.
2) IS-F, LF-A are higher priority.
3) Quality issues are plaguing the ES and to a lesser extent the IS and
GS. If you have a choice of which ones to fix clearly the ES has to
be fixed first (just on a volume basis).
4) They still can't fit the new V8.
5) GS is Lexus's lowest priority (I'm leaning towards this one)

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Before you start jumping on the proverbial bandwagon and pointing fingers,
Click back a page and read what I wrote initially.

natnut

I personally feel that the 3rd Gen GS is a disappointment compared to the 2nd Gen.

The 2nd Gen stock was inferior to the BMW 5 series handling-wise but made up for it by being more spacious interior-wise, it was ergonomically more comfortable, more relaxing to sit in. You could make up for its dynamic deficiencies by modding the chassis and suspension thus getting the best of both worlds.

The problem with the 3rd Gen is that it feels like a toy car compared to the 2nd Gen.It may be bigger in external dimensions but it feels 2/3 the size of the 2nd Gen when sitting inside! The fit and finishing is on par or better than the 2nd Gen but it is so cramped!

The new 5 series has improved its interior volume and ergonomics but the 3rd Gen has taken a step backwards. Now the 5 series has more usable interior space than the 3rd Gen.

When, we test drove the 3rd Gen, my dad hit his head on the door frame getting out of the driver's seat, something that never happened to him in all the years of driving our 2004 GS300!

If the 3rd Gen GS made up for this by being equal or superior to the 5 series in driving dynamics, it would be excusable. The problem is : while it handles better than a stock 2nd Gen, it's still noticeably inferior to a stock 5 series.

There's your problem--you could mod a stock 2nd Gen to beat a 5 series in terms of handling thus winning on both the driving dynamics and ergonomics. But it's impossible to mod the 3rd Gen to get more interior space. So now you have a car that is neither fish nor fowl: it's no longer more comfortable inside to sit in like the 2nd Gen nor does it handle as well as the 5 series.

I suspect that Toyota is aware of this problem and is taking the GS back to the drawing board for more tweaking to make it more usable for the busy executive with a family.

marshmallo

No bandwagon jumping here. I'm beyond fed up with this on my
own, as I am sure many others are too (the other posts protesting
showed up while I was typing mine). I am honestly frustrated by
the tendency to bring your favorite car into EVERY conversation about
Lexus.

I'm sorry for taking the thread Off Topic, but the things that are
happening here are WAY out of line. Guys who don't even own a
Lexus come into a Lexus forum bash our cars (yes I happen to OWN
one) and then expect us to not be annoyed???

I will take it to PM, but I feel that I needed to say this.

ff_

Why is it out of line? That doesn't make sense. This is a car chat sub-forum on an anoymous internet message board. What's wrong with a civil conversation about cars? We all have our favorites, but I think it's important (and healthy) to try and keep your mind open with regards to other brands and models. The alternative is called brand snobbery, and it results in conversations that are not very engaging for the rest of us.

LexFather

This BMW vs Lexus madness is going to end. This thread is about why the Lexus GS 460 has not debuted yet. If you cannot help the O.P with that question then do not take this off topic.

Gotham

Could Lexus get by with just the GS350 and the GS hybrid? I think they could, but I sure would miss the V8 being offered.

I know it's not very scientific, but I do see a fair number of 3rd generation GS's around my area (San Diego), so it appears to me they are doing alright sales wise.

Personally, I am fond of the current GS but at the same time I don't think it carried the torch from its predecessor very well. It seemed to loose some "excitement" the prior one had. But that's just me.

vraa

iTrader: (2)

I doubt it.
Might as well say "Could we get by with just Camrys"

Sure, but it'd suck.

marshmallo

I'm pretty sure the V8 will be offered. It is just a question of when
(there are many threads on this topic and rumored date is Sept of
this year last I heard). I don't think they can just get by with GS350
and GS450h because many still don't consider a hybrid to be a halo
type car.

If you think about volume vs. profitability it is fairly easy to figure out
why the V8 GS460 has fallen off the map - Maybe they will sell about
200 a month optimistically and this car needs to offer significant
performance advantage over a car (GS350) that is more powerful and
faster than the GS430 V8

At the same time Lexus continues to sell LS460's like hotcakes, so
why bother stealing extra capacity by selling GS's.

Faraaz23

If I had to take a guess, I think Lexus is still trying to figure out what to do with the V8 GS. I also agree they are going to slip it in at otherwise quiet time. We've heard rumors before that the delay is due to the fact that they could not fit the 4.6L in the engine bay, but I have a hard time believing that. If a 5.0L can fit in the IS, why can't a 4.6 fit in the larger GS???

While the V6 models have sold pretty well, the GS430 has been in a slump of sales for years now... well before the 3GS even came out. Like one person speculated, I hope they are working on a REAL sport package with reengineerd suspension, steering , 19's, and a OEM ground effects/aero kit.


While normally I agree with you 1Sick that most Lexus owners won't be that interested in a model mentioned above, i'd say from the sales numbers of the GS430, in its current softeness and suppleness (i think i just made up a word) isn't appealing. The people who don't really care about sporty driving are going to be more than happy with 305hp and compliant ride in the GS350. I don't think Lexus have that much to lose by offering a Sport Package to at least a small percentage of inventory to dealers, as well as available for special order. The people who want a soft ride don't have to get it, but people who do, as well as people who have resisted buying Lexus before for this reason only, will be happy. We just posted an article on how Toyota wants to make cars for ALL different types of customers (hence the new Tundra, IS-F, LF-A).

Also, I think an aero kit and wheels exclusive to sport package are a must. There are a number of people out there who opt for the sport package on the german competition simply because it LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER than the standard ones.

MR_F1

The GS has an excellent athletic chassis, its just softly sprung, and ruled by electronic nannies.

As for those speculating that they cant get the engine to fit, use your brain for a second please. The GS already has a V8. Just because the new one has a bigger displacement, doesnt mean that its external dimensions are. I'm also pretty sure Lexus never planned to use the OOOOOLD 4.3 throughout the life of the GS.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I disagree, I'm do not think GS is a great Lexus. I've had a first gen GS300, and that was a great Lexus, but my current 2nd gen just simply isn't. It's just not here not there.

On one hand it has what feels to be tight steering, but at the same time its sloppy and unpredictable. So why make it artificially tight in the first place? Just make it soft. Heck, the first gen GS had soft steering but it was more precise and provided more feedback.

Then the suspension. Its stiff over the bumps, but the car has more body roll than Titanic. On one hand the stiff suspension gives you false sense of confidence, but take a high speed curve and right away you see its rubbish. So why make it stiff in the first place. You see, I drive on I95 from NY to MA every other month, and driving through Rhode Island the highway has a lot of curves. I used to take these curves at 80mph in my old GS300 without much drama, and even my parents MDX could handle them at 80mph. I took the same curves at 100mph in my parents S500 - quite breathtaking, I tell ya. But in my GS430 I almost lost control taking one of these curves at 70mph, and shat a brick. And thats with low profile high performance tires.

I'm sorry but I just don't feel that 2nd gen or the current GS is a good Lexus. It's just not a very good car at all. The only thing I like about my 2nd gen is exterior styling, interior and the seats (the best damn seats ever), and of course the engine is one hell of a beast. But it's driving dynamics are horrible.