Argelius

Okay. Here's my story. I'm a major gadget and car nut and have been intrigued by the GS 450h for some time. After months of seeing the redesigned GS's on the road and liking what I saw, I finally decided to go for a test drive.

I drove both a 350awd and a 450h. Loved them both. In my very short drive, which was hampered by too much Chicago traffic, I didn't notice a huge difference between them (admittedly I didn't have the opportunity to max out the acceleration).

The hybrid version appeals to me for these reasons:
[1] Touchy feely, it's better for the environment
[2] I just happen to like the idea of driving reasonably fast, coasting to stoplights, and watching the hand-off between electric motors and the engine.
[3] Reliably getting more than 20 mpg just appeals to me (but I know full-well this car is no Prius)

My concerns at this point:
[1] Rear-wheel drive in Chicago. Have gotten used to having AWD and not having to worry about snow tires. (Obviously, this doesn't have anything to do with the hybrid, per se)
[2] Residual value (whether I lease or buy) -- this hybrid performance car seems like such a boutique idea, just wondering if anyone would really want a used one.
[3] Hardly any trunk. (Ultimately, not a big deal for me, but it is awfully small).


Putting aside $$ issues, I'm just wondering if the pluses will outweigh the minuses. Obviously, all of this is totally subjective, but I'd love to hear from current owners about how they feel about their GS hybrid. It's cool to be able to go from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, but in real life, how often do you actually get to do that...

Thanks. Hope someone is listening!

twister

Tough decision!!! Having AWD myself, and reading all these posts about sporty performance of 450h, here is what I'm thinking. Narrow is down to if this is going to be your only full time driving car and something you are going to substitute your previous AWD vehicle, than go with AWD. I'm getting 19mpg in a heavy stop'n'go traffic. On a highway it should be in mid 20's. Also keep in mind, in a good weather its 70/30 split and you will feel RWD push BUT, if you have a way of getting around in a bad snow weather with another family vehicle, than by all means go with 450h. It will have all around better sporty handling, superior performance, and you will get all the hi-tech toys.

Argelius

Thanks...those are all good thoughts. I currently have a BMW 330xi -- an excellent automobile. But after having several BMWs, I sort of decided I ready to opt for Lexus' isolation and solitude in lieu of BMW's road feel and exhaust note.

Hoping someone who owns a GSh will chime in!

GiSmo350

How small is the 450h's trunk?

rainforest

I have the 450h, and I love it. I've never test driven the 350, but aren't the gadgets the same for both? I find the hybrid system quite novel, but to be honest, the car rarely runs on electric motors alone. It only does this under about 20km/h, so pretty much only when you're cruising a parking lot looking for a space. The other nice thing is that the engine shuts off every time you're at a red light - you feel the car shudder slightly. Also, the whole engine is smooth and silent because of the hybrid system and the CVT transmission. I would guess that these are the main differences between the regular 350 and the hybrid. The 450h definitely gets better fuel economy - without a doubt. It uses the same amount of gas as my 99 Honda Accord 4 cylinder, but has way more power.

My main criticism would be between the GS and other brand cars. My main criticism is that the GS has really bad head room in the back seat - the front seats are better, but still worse than a lot of cars. I'm not tall, though, so I don't care. Also, the handling of the car is definitely not so sporty (active stabilizer not avail in Canada), but at the same time, I find the ride quite harsh. It doesn't have a good ride/handling balance. But I forgive all of these faults because of the fact that the 450h is the most technologically advanced car on the road today.

Argelius

The GS450h's trunk is 7.5 cubic feet
(compared to the non-hybrid which is 12.7...)

steverhode

Do you have the runflat tires?

Thus far everyone I have read here that complained about a harsh GS ride had the runflats. I'm not an owner of of new GS yet (I have a 98 GS) and a harsh ride would bother me a lot.

twister

Just wait until Jace7 will chime in. He will give you all the down lows and pros and cons

Modeler

I drove the GS 350 AWD followed by GS 430. For me the 350 felt like it didn't have nearly as much power (torque) as I wanted to have in my new car. The 430 was good, but the GS 450h simply blew me away with the amount of power and smooth delivery.

I ended up buying the 450h. I don't care about the trunk size. What's there is plenty for everyday driving and most runs to Costco. We have Honda Odyssey minivan as the second vehicle, for when I need more storage space.

I strugled with the decision to buy a rear-wheel-drive car; all my previous cars were front-wheel-drive. But I don't live in Chicago, so dealing with a few snow days in Virginia seemed like not a big problem. We just had this big snow storm a week ago, our street still hasn't been plowed to the day. My 450h did just fine driving slow through the neigborhood until I get to the clear main road. Fortunately there are no hills on my way to the main road.

As far as resale value goes, it's a crapshoot. That's why I'm leasing my car so that I don't have to deal with the uncertainty.

Argelius

Thanks for your thoughts -- all are good. Obviously, it all comes down to personal preference. At this point, I'm leaning toward the hybrid!

One more question: what kind of mileage are you experiencing?

Modeler

I'm a very "spirited" driver and have been getting mileage of about 23 mpg on my daily commute that includes about 5 miles of "city" followed by about 10 miles of highway in fairly light rush-hour traffic. On the highway I typically maintain about 75 mph speed, with bursts up to 90 mph.

On the highway, if I set cruise to 65 mph, I get 30 mpg. Long-distance highway driving at 75-80 mph average speed yields about 27 mpg mileage.

Obviously I'm very happy with the mileage. Given the way I drive, I'd be getting 13-14 mpg in a V8 car like BMW 550i or Infiniti M45.

Argelius

oh man...those numbers sound amazing! They do seem at odds with some of what I have read elsewhere, but most of that was from professional reviewers who probably didnt measure it in real-world driving conditions.

As I said, I know the GSh isnt a Prius, but getting mid-20 mpg would be the straw that would tip me over the edge toward a purchase. (You are a very bad influence on me!)

A couple other quick questions if you dont mind...

Would you happen to have had the ipod adapter installed? Just curious how it's working, if you did. (Think it is obscene that this technologic tour de force of a car has a cassette deck but no ipod/aux input. C'mon Lexus -- it's 2007!)

Do you have runflats? (Haven't determined if they are standard). If so, are they loud? I have them on my BMW 330XI and they do have a pronounced drone. Wonder if the wizards at Lexus solved that issue.

Finally, does the CD/DVD player allow you to *listen* to DVD movies while in motion (even though you cant *watch* them)? I know the new LS lets you do that. Just curious...

Thanks again for your thoughts! I am almost there...

Modeler

I'm one of very few people of my age who do not use iPod. I just don't have use for it. In my car about 95% of music I listen to is from XM radio. The other 5% are from my CDs.

My car, just like the majority of GS 450h cars out there, came with Dunlop Sport 5000 run-flat tires. These tires are amazingly quiet, at least early on. But they are ridiculously hard on my bones; they make the car ride very harsh. So I replaced my run-flats with conventional tires by the end of the first week of ownership (you should be able to find my thread on the subject, just search for "crappy run-flats"). The tires I got - Continental ContiExtremeContact - have great handling and make for a fantastic ride, but they definitely produce more drone at speeds above 50 mph than the Dunlop run-flats did.

Other reason to get rid of the run-flats include sub-par wet and snow/ice grip. Not terrible, but definitely a lot worse than the best all-season tires on the market.

I don't believe you can listen to soundtrack of DVDs while driving (unless you do the hack that involves cutting wires). The system will see those disks as DVD Video, not DVD-A.

As far as mileage goes, I think my numbers are in line with what I saw in reviewes and you should expect to do at least as well as I'm doing. There are plenty of people posting that they get 26-27 mpg in their mix of driving, but it's hard for me to believe they would get those numbers consistently. The official rating is 25 mpg in the city, 29 on highway, but I knew I would be extatic if I got at least 22 mpg. I got 22.7 average on the first two tanks of gas (about 600 miles total), and 23.6 on the next two tanks (the traffic has improved somewhat).

Now, since you're choosing between two GS models, I don't know how relevant this is to you, but I want to mention that voice recognition on the GS sucks to the point of being completely unusable. This would be an important consideration for me if I were choosing between the GS and Acura RL or Infiniti M35/M45. The latter two systems have fantastic voice recognition.

Modeler

I just realized that you're in Chicago. With the horrible roads in Chicago area, I would NEVER have run-flats on my car.

doug_999

You are going to need snows...