Today, I lost a wheel on the highway... (Well, almost…)
02-26-08, 05:03 PM
#18
now this is what my GUESS at what happened. again it's a guess, could be wrong. you hand tightened the lugs, which means they might be UNDER tightened. so they could be at 40-50ft-lb. assume that's the case, that means the wheel is not completely tightened down on the hub, and that could explain the slight vibration you had before when driving the car
if the wheel is vibrating, that means it's traveling in several direction, and coudl be going sideway, or back and forth. all these could produce unnecessary force on the stud, and if the wheel is vibrating enough, the force can be enough to break off the stud. once one is gone, and the rest being loose, it just makes it easier to break off the 2nd, etc...
if the wheel is vibrating, that means it's traveling in several direction, and coudl be going sideway, or back and forth. all these could produce unnecessary force on the stud, and if the wheel is vibrating enough, the force can be enough to break off the stud. once one is gone, and the rest being loose, it just makes it easier to break off the 2nd, etc...
This scenario happened to me but thankfully I did not break anything. Torquing by hand isn't a good idea. You can stand on the bar, but you're going to risk over torquing. Buy yourself a $50 torque wrench. Small price to pay for accuracy. Torque all your wheels and I can bet that most, if not all lugs are not as tight as they should be..
02-26-08, 05:04 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
haha sounds like you're about the tightening by hand being the problem 
02-26-08, 05:15 PM
#20
If my math is not deceiving me, there are more than enough force in a 200 lbs man and 12 inches wrench to torque around the values we are talking here (77-80 ft.lbs):
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
02-26-08, 05:20 PM
#21
List of questions your going to want answered whenever this situation arises:
3) How much did they get torqued to? If impact wrenched, I'm going to guess that's the problem, *ALWAYS* torque to the manufacturer, and never greater than 120ft lbs save for a few peculiar applications.
4) How did the studs fail? Keep one and have a mechanical engineer study the stud.
Your looking at a minimum of a new hub.
3) How much did they get torqued to? If impact wrenched, I'm going to guess that's the problem, *ALWAYS* torque to the manufacturer, and never greater than 120ft lbs save for a few peculiar applications.
4) How did the studs fail? Keep one and have a mechanical engineer study the stud.
Your looking at a minimum of a new hub.
Looking from the pics, which are a little hard to see it appears to be a shear stress failure, there doesn't appear to be any necking on the stud so that would indicate it wasn't an issue of "over torquing" the stud.
You should be fine with just replacing the studs, no need to replace the whole hub unless it was damaged.
02-26-08, 06:55 PM
#22
If my math is not deceiving me, there are more than enough force in a 200 lbs man and 12 inches wrench to torque around the values we are talking here (77-80 ft.lbs):
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
on your question regrding hub rings, i don't know what you mean by beveled section, but once you put the ring in, it should be almost flat to the back plate of the wheel face. and when you put the wheel on and tighten them, the lug nuts should be more than capable of fully pushing the back plate against the hub. or you can take a picture of the ring on your wheel and see what it is like
02-26-08, 06:57 PM
#23
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If my math is not deceiving me, there are more than enough force in a 200 lbs man and 12 inches wrench to torque around the values we are talking here (77-80 ft.lbs):
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
M = F x d
force (F) = 100 pound force = 444.8 newton (I use part of my body weight to apply pressure on the wrench)
lever arm length (d) = 10 inch = 0.254 meter (only 10 inches coz' my hand is in the last 2 inches)
moment (M) = 112.9 newton-meter = 83.4 ft.lbs
I'm not trying to said that I did it perfectly, but I do not think that it was way off, also I re torque all the wheels after few days just to make sure.
I sincerely believe that the issue come from some other parts, what about the hub centric ring? did someone has bad experience with them, I notice that they all have a little beveled section that get between the wheel and the hub itself, preventing the wheel to make a clean contact with the hub, is it just my wheels or they are all like that ?
wheel hub 78mm
hub ring 78 to 66mm
lexus = 60.06
so yeah it didnt fit correctly. a lot of vibrations!!! i was given the correct rings and it helped the shaking a lot, but still had some. it turned out that the balance job on when wheels sucked and really off.
wasted a lot of money because 2 wheel/tire installers couldnt do it right the 1st or 2nd time.back to the topic, vibrations from the wheels is probably the culprit to ur studs snapping off. it sucks, thats why i made a big deal out of a little vibration. i get a slight... very minimal/slight/tiny vib from 70mph+
02-26-08, 07:01 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wow, amazing, glad you are not hurt. I believe all Lexus are either a 76 or 80 torque, the only exception the new LS. I recently was at Discount Tire and I reviewed their spec sheet for all car makers.
For them to snap off, they had to be real tight and a huge force snapped them off. Cars can be driven with 4 out the 5 lugs.
For 4 to snap off? Wow.
For them to snap off, they had to be real tight and a huge force snapped them off. Cars can be driven with 4 out the 5 lugs.
For 4 to snap off? Wow.
02-26-08, 08:23 PM
#25
Wow, amazing, glad you are not hurt. I believe all Lexus are either a 76 or 80 torque, the only exception the new LS. I recently was at Discount Tire and I reviewed their spec sheet for all car makers.
For them to snap off, they had to be real tight and a huge force snapped them off. Cars can be driven with 4 out the 5 lugs.
For 4 to snap off? Wow.
For them to snap off, they had to be real tight and a huge force snapped them off. Cars can be driven with 4 out the 5 lugs.
For 4 to snap off? Wow.
and yes, the tq on the ls460 is way higher
02-26-08, 11:08 PM
#27
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Definitely agree you can't blame Lexus for aftermarket wheels, lugs, hubcentric rings and owner install. Glad you didn't get hurt, it could have been a lot worse for you and some unlucky guy next to you if it had come off completely! Just be glad this didn't happen to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMDNzhfwn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMDNzhfwn0
02-26-08, 11:17 PM
#29
Hacked CL to become a Mod
yea same thing almost happened to me...after installing coilovers for like 9h (we don't know what we are doing) we were **** tired to torque down anything. there is some squeaking noise and got worse so i parked on the side of the road thinking its the faulty coilovers...jacked up the car and realized 2 of the bolts were gone and the others were loose
02-26-08, 11:44 PM
#30
Definitely agree you can't blame Lexus for aftermarket wheels, lugs, hubcentric rings and owner install. Glad you didn't get hurt, it could have been a lot worse for you and some unlucky guy next to you if it had come off completely! Just be glad this didn't happen to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMDNzhfwn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMDNzhfwn0