GS350 vs. Hyundai Genesis ???
07-25-08, 11:59 PM
#77
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I call the stock GS suspension a Mafia Setup suspension, it keeps the Mob boss comfy while taking the bumps and bruises of outrunning who ever so may be chasing you...lol
I might go and see if I can test drive a Genesis at a local dealer, I don't even know where my local Hyndai dealer is...lol
07-26-08, 01:51 AM
#79
Lexus Test Driver
LOL, so far the only things I did not like about the Genesis, cosmetically, are the wheels and grille. I am sure due for a test drive before I comment on the dynamic performance. Can't just make bold assumptions, right?
Last edited by memasterac; 07-26-08 at 02:00 AM.
07-26-08, 03:54 AM
#80
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Cheap interior?
And that is why "luxo" buyers will turn away from it like it was contaminated waste. I started this thread just to get a feel of how Lexus owner/fans/etc. felt about the Genesis being a potential option for us.
For me, I'm not dropping $40K on a HYUNDAI, partly based on name and partly based on the dealer experience. I know some people hate dealers and don't care for them, but I've had very good experiences with the Lexus dealers on the times that I've had to go. For extended repairs, they offer loaner vehicles, the services areas are top notch, the people are very friend. If you guy the Genesis, you're going to be going into queue in the same regular service area, and you're not getting a loaner and if you do, you'll be getting a Sonata at best.
Just like Toyota does not have that many $40K+ vehicles, but much more floating in the $20-30K mark, it's because a lot of perception of Toyota is that it's a grade "A" automaker, but I'm not going to drop $40K into a "Toyota." Because of the marketing that's been done to build Lexus, the consumer sees Lexus as more high end, and so they're more willing to drop higher money into them because of the differentiation. Take my dad for example, I know if I told him "I paid $42K for an Avalon" he would be like "wow, 40k for a Toyota ?!?!" but if I drive up in a GS and told him "I paid $50K for this Lexus" he would be like "really? nice car..."
It's just all marketing and public perception, with a touch of actual variances in dealer network and scale of services. I think the Genesis will sell well of course, for the Sonata buyers who are ready to upgrade to something better than the Azera. It's going to sell well to Accord and Camry owners who might look to have a bigger vehicle. It's not going to be a viable alternative to a Lexus buyer who has a more upscale taste.
On a side note, I thought the Genesis has real wood interior ??? Somone noted they test drove it and hated the fake wood. Was it real that just looked fake?
For me, I'm not dropping $40K on a HYUNDAI, partly based on name and partly based on the dealer experience. I know some people hate dealers and don't care for them, but I've had very good experiences with the Lexus dealers on the times that I've had to go. For extended repairs, they offer loaner vehicles, the services areas are top notch, the people are very friend. If you guy the Genesis, you're going to be going into queue in the same regular service area, and you're not getting a loaner and if you do, you'll be getting a Sonata at best.
Just like Toyota does not have that many $40K+ vehicles, but much more floating in the $20-30K mark, it's because a lot of perception of Toyota is that it's a grade "A" automaker, but I'm not going to drop $40K into a "Toyota." Because of the marketing that's been done to build Lexus, the consumer sees Lexus as more high end, and so they're more willing to drop higher money into them because of the differentiation. Take my dad for example, I know if I told him "I paid $42K for an Avalon" he would be like "wow, 40k for a Toyota ?!?!" but if I drive up in a GS and told him "I paid $50K for this Lexus" he would be like "really? nice car..."
It's just all marketing and public perception, with a touch of actual variances in dealer network and scale of services. I think the Genesis will sell well of course, for the Sonata buyers who are ready to upgrade to something better than the Azera. It's going to sell well to Accord and Camry owners who might look to have a bigger vehicle. It's not going to be a viable alternative to a Lexus buyer who has a more upscale taste.
On a side note, I thought the Genesis has real wood interior ??? Somone noted they test drove it and hated the fake wood. Was it real that just looked fake?
07-26-08, 04:16 AM
#81
Pole Position
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-26-08, 05:34 AM
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Automobile mag with its long term GS commented on how much fun and how much they loved the car after they disabled VDIM with the 5600 step process on 2006 models.
07-26-08, 06:34 AM
#83
Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ontario
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
genesis
I have not even seen these cars yet in ontario canada but it looks interesting . I just driven the 2008 cadillac CTS AWD fully loaded which costs
$60,000.00 dollars cdn excluding taxes , licence , ect. I've driven a fully loaded gs-350 AWD which costs $ 70,000.00 dollars cdn excluding taxes , ect. . I have to say I prefered the cadillac because the interior was nicer , slightly quieter , much more refined ride and steering / handling plus $10,000.00 dollars cheaper . I think perception is the "key' word here as that's how car manufactures price their cars . Korean car manufactures are obviously after the luxury car market in the US /Canada , so they are going to push the envelope in bringing alot of car for the buck . Car manufactures around the globe are going to have to figure out how they will compete with these guys " dollar for dollar' and throw away their arrogance !!!
B D HEMI
$60,000.00 dollars cdn excluding taxes , licence , ect. I've driven a fully loaded gs-350 AWD which costs $ 70,000.00 dollars cdn excluding taxes , ect. . I have to say I prefered the cadillac because the interior was nicer , slightly quieter , much more refined ride and steering / handling plus $10,000.00 dollars cheaper . I think perception is the "key' word here as that's how car manufactures price their cars . Korean car manufactures are obviously after the luxury car market in the US /Canada , so they are going to push the envelope in bringing alot of car for the buck . Car manufactures around the globe are going to have to figure out how they will compete with these guys " dollar for dollar' and throw away their arrogance !!!
B D HEMI
07-26-08, 07:57 AM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
3GS handling is a marked improvement over the 2GS but it's still no BMW.
And as 1SICK points out, the 'Titanic' steering on Lexus is a weak point.
And as 1SICK points out, the 'Titanic' steering on Lexus is a weak point.
07-26-08, 08:38 AM
#85
Pole Position
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone keeps harping on price, yet the Genesis is priced like a Chrysler 300/300C, ES350, Avalon, IS250/350, Maxima, G35, etc. yet is the similar in size to the short wheelbase LS460, S-Class, etc. It's an absolute bargain given the feature content, horsepower and size.
As for reviews, I've seen a few lukewarm reviews, but overall the vast majority have been very positive IMO. Many of the early test drives took place in Korea and some weren't even of U.S. spec vehicles. The North American suspension tuning is VERY different than the Korean model.
Reviews
Autobytel:
http://www.autobytel.com/content/sha...le_id_int/2948
"It’s not often that a car company knocks one out of the park as comprehensively as Hyundai has with the Genesis. It possesses the power, luxury and poise of a much more expensive sedan, with almost zero compromise. If this doesn’t change your perception of Hyundai, it’s likely nothing will."
Canadian Driver:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdr...ai-genesis.php
"While there is no doubt the new Genesis is a fine car and competitive in most respects with much more expensive luxury sedans, it remains to be seen how well luxury car buyers will respond to a Hyundai-badged luxury sedan. Still, the influential Black Book of used car residual values is predicting the 2009 Genesis V6 will retain 52% of its value after three years and the Genesis V8 will retain 50% of its value after the same period. That's better than the Black Book's predicted residual value for the Acura TL, Lexus ES 350, Infiniti G35 and Cadillac CTS."
Autoblog:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/27/f...undai-genesis/
"Hyundai would like you to consider the Genesis a competitor to an exhaustive list of cars. The targets reportedly include the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, S Class, BMW 5-Series, 7 Series, Infiniti M, Lexus GS, Chrysler 300C, Lexus ES350, Pontiac G8, and Cadillac STS. After a day behind the wheel over road and track, we whittled it down to a much shorter list. In one breath, the Genesis will simply compete head-to-head with the Infiniti M, Lexus GS, Lexus ES, Acura TL, and Acura RL. The German buyers want their badge; the American customers are true to their flag."
"The Korean automaker paid careful attention to aerodynamics and wind management. A low drag coefficient (Cd of .27) and an acoustically laminated windshield and front side windows keep the passengers extremely isolated. Independent testing says the Genesis equals the serenity of the Lexus LS 460 over rough pavement, and our ears believed it. It's what you don't hear in the Hyundai that matters."
Auto123.com:
http://www.auto123.com/en/hyundai/ge...tid=99124&pg=1
"The Korean-manufactured Hyundai Genesis proves that a premium performance sedan can be secured for less than $40K, and for less than $50K it can be equipped with a cutting-edge V8, world-class audio and all the latest techno gizmos and safety gear available in cars demanding much higher stacks of greenbacks."
"This is a spacious sedan that offers more interior room than an S-Class Mercedes-Benz while taking up considerably less real estate in the parking lot. It's as luxurious and refined--if not more so--than many of its competitors. Hyundai has found the elusive sweet spot between ride comfort and handling dynamics although I would argue that the nod goes to ride comfort over razor-sharp handling."
Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
"Our brief driving impression revealed well-controlled drive motions, predictable handling, and an excellent powertrain. We’ll need more time behind the wheel to be sure, but all signs point toward a well-tuned chassis. We’re not sug*gesting banishing that 5-series just yet, as the Genesis is tuned more for Lexus-like isolation than BMW-like involvement. And that, at least ideologically, is one of the few minor shortcomings of the Genesis. Lexus makes fine cars, to be sure, but the Germans and Infiniti have more to offer in the fun-to-drive category.
Then there’s the price. A top-of-the-line Genesis V-8 costs $42,000, or about $10,000 less than a base 2008 Lexus GS460 (a loaded Genesis V-6 tops out at 40 large). That’s also significantly cheaper than the mid-size offerings from Audi, BMW, Infiniti, and Mercedes-Benz, and the Genesis comes with full-size dimensions. But 1989 was a long time ago, and a Lexus-like upset of the luxury-car order is unlikely if not impossible in this era. Plus, the Genesis is expensive for a Hyundai, and it is pricier than the less luxurious 300C and G8. That said, the Genesis stands poised to make drivers reevaluate their perceptions of the Hyundai brand, which is good for Hyundai and bad for the competition. In that respect, then, it looks like 1989 all over again."
Edmunds:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai...read.php?t=129
What Works:
Smooth and powerful V8 engine, comfortable ride, features and options galore, value on top of value.
What Needs Work:
Convincing luxury-sedan buyers to visit a Hyundai dealership.
Bottom Line:
Your socks had better be firmly affixed or the Genesis will blow them clean off; there isn't a better rear-wheel-drive sport sedan for the money
Automobile.com (not Automobile Magazine):
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Hy...rack-test/5795
"Hyundai has delivered a surprise. The company promised to raise its own bar for both quality and reliability, but no one expected this. It is a very difficult car to criticize. It has a larger interior than a BMW 5 Series and is best in class in every quantifiable target. The corporate exodus from cheap and amusing is well underway with a Genesis to lead the new line of less expensive and exceptional."
National Post:
http://www.nationalpost.com/cars/story.html?id=645892
"Trot out any tired old metaphor you'd like -- a deal changer, a seismic shift, a quantum leap. Whatever the verbiage, not since Lexus introduced its LS 400 in 1990 has so much luxury and performance been offered for so little money. For the first time in a very long time -- since that first Lexus, in fact -- mere proles can afford the same performance, luxury and amenities as all the yuppies in their BMWs can.
There was really no indication the new 2009 Genesis would be this good. After all, there is a Hyundai badge on its rear deck. Oh, sure, the company's Sonata now competes head to head with the Camry, but there's a huge gulf between benchmarking a Toyota and claiming that one's car is on an equal footing with a BMW."
"All of this makes the Genesis a tremendous accomplishment for Hyundai. Price aside, the V8 model makes a worthy competitor for BMW's 550i. With a sticker price starting at $43,995 and topping out at $48,995, the 4.6L-powered Genesis gives incredible value. It's the best sedan you can buy for the money and a great car regardless of its price."
Guys, if the Genesis Tour comes to a city near you, I urge you to take part and drive the Genesis. Decide for yourself, but at least give it a shot before dismissing it as "just another Hyundai".
Genesis Tour: http://www.discovergenesistour.com/
As for reviews, I've seen a few lukewarm reviews, but overall the vast majority have been very positive IMO. Many of the early test drives took place in Korea and some weren't even of U.S. spec vehicles. The North American suspension tuning is VERY different than the Korean model.
Reviews
Autobytel:
http://www.autobytel.com/content/sha...le_id_int/2948
"It’s not often that a car company knocks one out of the park as comprehensively as Hyundai has with the Genesis. It possesses the power, luxury and poise of a much more expensive sedan, with almost zero compromise. If this doesn’t change your perception of Hyundai, it’s likely nothing will."
Canadian Driver:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdr...ai-genesis.php
"While there is no doubt the new Genesis is a fine car and competitive in most respects with much more expensive luxury sedans, it remains to be seen how well luxury car buyers will respond to a Hyundai-badged luxury sedan. Still, the influential Black Book of used car residual values is predicting the 2009 Genesis V6 will retain 52% of its value after three years and the Genesis V8 will retain 50% of its value after the same period. That's better than the Black Book's predicted residual value for the Acura TL, Lexus ES 350, Infiniti G35 and Cadillac CTS."
Autoblog:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/27/f...undai-genesis/
"Hyundai would like you to consider the Genesis a competitor to an exhaustive list of cars. The targets reportedly include the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, S Class, BMW 5-Series, 7 Series, Infiniti M, Lexus GS, Chrysler 300C, Lexus ES350, Pontiac G8, and Cadillac STS. After a day behind the wheel over road and track, we whittled it down to a much shorter list. In one breath, the Genesis will simply compete head-to-head with the Infiniti M, Lexus GS, Lexus ES, Acura TL, and Acura RL. The German buyers want their badge; the American customers are true to their flag."
"The Korean automaker paid careful attention to aerodynamics and wind management. A low drag coefficient (Cd of .27) and an acoustically laminated windshield and front side windows keep the passengers extremely isolated. Independent testing says the Genesis equals the serenity of the Lexus LS 460 over rough pavement, and our ears believed it. It's what you don't hear in the Hyundai that matters."
Auto123.com:
http://www.auto123.com/en/hyundai/ge...tid=99124&pg=1
"The Korean-manufactured Hyundai Genesis proves that a premium performance sedan can be secured for less than $40K, and for less than $50K it can be equipped with a cutting-edge V8, world-class audio and all the latest techno gizmos and safety gear available in cars demanding much higher stacks of greenbacks."
"This is a spacious sedan that offers more interior room than an S-Class Mercedes-Benz while taking up considerably less real estate in the parking lot. It's as luxurious and refined--if not more so--than many of its competitors. Hyundai has found the elusive sweet spot between ride comfort and handling dynamics although I would argue that the nod goes to ride comfort over razor-sharp handling."
Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
"Our brief driving impression revealed well-controlled drive motions, predictable handling, and an excellent powertrain. We’ll need more time behind the wheel to be sure, but all signs point toward a well-tuned chassis. We’re not sug*gesting banishing that 5-series just yet, as the Genesis is tuned more for Lexus-like isolation than BMW-like involvement. And that, at least ideologically, is one of the few minor shortcomings of the Genesis. Lexus makes fine cars, to be sure, but the Germans and Infiniti have more to offer in the fun-to-drive category.
Then there’s the price. A top-of-the-line Genesis V-8 costs $42,000, or about $10,000 less than a base 2008 Lexus GS460 (a loaded Genesis V-6 tops out at 40 large). That’s also significantly cheaper than the mid-size offerings from Audi, BMW, Infiniti, and Mercedes-Benz, and the Genesis comes with full-size dimensions. But 1989 was a long time ago, and a Lexus-like upset of the luxury-car order is unlikely if not impossible in this era. Plus, the Genesis is expensive for a Hyundai, and it is pricier than the less luxurious 300C and G8. That said, the Genesis stands poised to make drivers reevaluate their perceptions of the Hyundai brand, which is good for Hyundai and bad for the competition. In that respect, then, it looks like 1989 all over again."
Edmunds:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai...read.php?t=129
What Works:
Smooth and powerful V8 engine, comfortable ride, features and options galore, value on top of value.
What Needs Work:
Convincing luxury-sedan buyers to visit a Hyundai dealership.
Bottom Line:
Your socks had better be firmly affixed or the Genesis will blow them clean off; there isn't a better rear-wheel-drive sport sedan for the money
Automobile.com (not Automobile Magazine):
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Hy...rack-test/5795
"Hyundai has delivered a surprise. The company promised to raise its own bar for both quality and reliability, but no one expected this. It is a very difficult car to criticize. It has a larger interior than a BMW 5 Series and is best in class in every quantifiable target. The corporate exodus from cheap and amusing is well underway with a Genesis to lead the new line of less expensive and exceptional."
National Post:
http://www.nationalpost.com/cars/story.html?id=645892
"Trot out any tired old metaphor you'd like -- a deal changer, a seismic shift, a quantum leap. Whatever the verbiage, not since Lexus introduced its LS 400 in 1990 has so much luxury and performance been offered for so little money. For the first time in a very long time -- since that first Lexus, in fact -- mere proles can afford the same performance, luxury and amenities as all the yuppies in their BMWs can.
There was really no indication the new 2009 Genesis would be this good. After all, there is a Hyundai badge on its rear deck. Oh, sure, the company's Sonata now competes head to head with the Camry, but there's a huge gulf between benchmarking a Toyota and claiming that one's car is on an equal footing with a BMW."
"All of this makes the Genesis a tremendous accomplishment for Hyundai. Price aside, the V8 model makes a worthy competitor for BMW's 550i. With a sticker price starting at $43,995 and topping out at $48,995, the 4.6L-powered Genesis gives incredible value. It's the best sedan you can buy for the money and a great car regardless of its price."
Guys, if the Genesis Tour comes to a city near you, I urge you to take part and drive the Genesis. Decide for yourself, but at least give it a shot before dismissing it as "just another Hyundai".
Genesis Tour: http://www.discovergenesistour.com/
Last edited by jwaters; 07-26-08 at 08:55 AM.
07-26-08, 09:17 PM
#88
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CT/MA
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-26-08, 09:58 PM
#89
Pole Position
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And some people don't see the value in spending more for less.
You know, this place sounds just like a few BMW & MB forums I've been to, except they say the same things about Lexus. Too funny.
You know, this place sounds just like a few BMW & MB forums I've been to, except they say the same things about Lexus. Too funny.
07-26-08, 11:15 PM
#90
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Genesis would be something I would be proud to drive. I never liked Hyundai before but I like the Genesis and its causing discussions in many forums even M5 Board...lol