Traded in my IS350 today for a GS430
09-02-08, 06:34 PM
#31
Key words....torque and rpm.
More torque available at a lower rpm means more mid-range passing power when you need it, and a quiter cabin at cruise speeds.
AS long as each car has the same transmission and rear gear, I would be willing to bet the GS430/460 cars would out accelerate any IS350 car in the critical 35-75 mph acceleration run. The IS would probably have to down shift to a lower gear just to keep up in this speed range, and this is where a majority of your "real world" driving is spent.
More torque available at a lower rpm means more mid-range passing power when you need it, and a quiter cabin at cruise speeds.
AS long as each car has the same transmission and rear gear, I would be willing to bet the GS430/460 cars would out accelerate any IS350 car in the critical 35-75 mph acceleration run. The IS would probably have to down shift to a lower gear just to keep up in this speed range, and this is where a majority of your "real world" driving is spent.
09-02-08, 06:47 PM
#32
Lead Lap
09-02-08, 06:50 PM
#33
09-02-08, 06:51 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
09-02-08, 06:55 PM
#35
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Ah..no worries brother.
While the torque spread is much greater, take a peak at the acceleration runs of the new MB diesel powered E series cars as compared to the gasoline counterparts and you'll see what that low rpm torque gets you.
FYI....that's also why the 450h GS is "faster" than the 460 V8 cars in that same rpm range, even tho it gives up several HP. The electric motors give instantaneous torque at all speeds when they are engaged.
While the torque spread is much greater, take a peak at the acceleration runs of the new MB diesel powered E series cars as compared to the gasoline counterparts and you'll see what that low rpm torque gets you.
FYI....that's also why the 450h GS is "faster" than the 460 V8 cars in that same rpm range, even tho it gives up several HP. The electric motors give instantaneous torque at all speeds when they are engaged.
09-02-08, 07:35 PM
#36
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Just curious about the "quicker" part of this as a notable potential reason for choosing the GS350.
The specs on the two cars are vary similar. I'm not an expert, but I would think the most notable differences between an 06 430 and an 07 350 would be how they feel (delivery) and sound, not the difference in acceleration.
350 RWD
Horsepower 303 @ 6,200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 274 @ 3,600 RPM
0 - 60 mph (sec) 5.7
Top Track Speed (mph) 143
1/4-Mile Acceleration (sec) 14.2
Fuel Economy
City (mpg) - estimated 19
Highway (mpg) - estimated 27
430
Horsepower 300 @ 5,600 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 325 @ 3,400 RPM
0 - 60 mph (sec) 5.7
Top Track Speed (mph) 149
1/4-Mile Acceleration (sec) 14.2
Fuel Economy
City (mpg) - estimated 18
Highway (mpg) - estimated 25
The largest variance is torque; 274 and 325
The specs on the two cars are vary similar. I'm not an expert, but I would think the most notable differences between an 06 430 and an 07 350 would be how they feel (delivery) and sound, not the difference in acceleration.
350 RWD
Horsepower 303 @ 6,200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 274 @ 3,600 RPM
0 - 60 mph (sec) 5.7
Top Track Speed (mph) 143
1/4-Mile Acceleration (sec) 14.2
Fuel Economy
City (mpg) - estimated 19
Highway (mpg) - estimated 27
430
Horsepower 300 @ 5,600 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 325 @ 3,400 RPM
0 - 60 mph (sec) 5.7
Top Track Speed (mph) 149
1/4-Mile Acceleration (sec) 14.2
Fuel Economy
City (mpg) - estimated 18
Highway (mpg) - estimated 25
The largest variance is torque; 274 and 325
The GS430 car runs out of RPM, so the HP figures are going to be capped.
The IS350 car can rev higher to give a slight peak HP advantage (TQ x RPM), and being roughly 400 pounds lighter, it has less mass than the GS430. In this case, the 50 lbs/ft of additional torque at a lower rpm negates the weight advantage of the IS350, and both cars make their peak torque numbers at the same 3,600 rpm. I think that extra torque at 3,600 rpm is going to give the GS430 a brief advantage. The IS350 can make up this torques deficit initially by having a shorter (higher numerically) rear end gear to help it launch but a think a rolling start in high gear would favor the GS430.
Throw in the GS460, which can also rev match the IS350 (6,200 rpm) and greater peak torque at the same 3,600 rpm (339 lbs/ft), and the advertised performance figures give the 1/4 mile edge to the GS460 by over a quarter of a second.
09-02-08, 07:37 PM
#37
Lexus Connoisseur
I've had several runs with my friend's IS350 on the freeway and from a stand still. We're pretty much even throughout. On the freeway doing a 50 to 80 run, I pulled on him slightly. Mind you we both had full tanks and one passenger each. Call it a fluke, the GS350 is no slouch.
I think we're taking the magazine racing a little too far. We can start a whole new thread on this. Lets continue talking about Mike's new GS rather than debating on who's faster or slower.
I think we're taking the magazine racing a little too far. We can start a whole new thread on this. Lets continue talking about Mike's new GS rather than debating on who's faster or slower.
09-02-08, 07:41 PM
#38
plan to move it inside the car by the 3rd brake light. who knows maybe I will get creative and install the OEM shark fin?? I enjoy these DIY projects but I will black out the windows soon here so it if works in the back, as I think it should, then it will stay there
anyone running spacers with the OEM rims? How does the car "feel"?? With my IS it was a big difference on how it planted the rear of the car, also looked better to push it out with the car lower.
09-02-08, 07:51 PM
#39
the gs430 has tq, but it's not that much dramatic more. imho from 60-120 the gs430 will pull, but at lower speed the gs350 will probably be dead even or even be ahead.
imho the problem with the gs430 is gas mileage, which is very bad compared to the gs350 or the gs460.
imho the problem with the gs430 is gas mileage, which is very bad compared to the gs350 or the gs460.
09-02-08, 09:26 PM
#42
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Well, without knowing the terminal non-governed top speed and the rpm each tranny/engine/final drive can pull at terminal speed, this is how I would think it would play out.....
GS430 300 hp at 5,600 rpm , 325 lbs/ft at 3,400 rpm, 2.93 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3954 lbs dry (?)
GS350 303 hp at 6,200 rpm , 274 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 3.72 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3795 lbs dry
GS460 342 hp at 6,200 rpm , 339 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 2.93 rear gear, 8 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3954 lbs dry
IS350 303 hp at 6,200 rpm , 274 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 4.08 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .028 drag coeffiecent , 3527 lbs dry
top speed king: no doubt, GS460 with higher specific HP/TQ with higher rear gear (lower numerically) and lowest drag coeffiecent . Weight is a non issue here, the 8 speed tranny has far more gears spaced closer together which keeps the 460 in the meat of it's power band at all times. The GS430 might edge the GS350 solely because the 430 car makes greater peak HP/TQ at a lower RPM than the GS350 , which despite it lower rear end gear (higher numericaly at 3.72) , might not have enough high rpm TQ to overcome the aerodynamic drag to reach it's peak HP rpm of 6,200 rpm in high gear.
The IS350, with the same drive train as the GS350 but with a lower rear end gear (higher numericaly) of 4.08, might be able to overcome it's slightly higher aerodynamic drag (.028) to get closer to it's peak HP rpm of 6,200 rpm in high gear. This might allow the IS350 to reach a higher terminal speed than the GS350 and possibly match or surpass even the GS430.
By the way, I doubt any of these cars would be able to reach max redline rpm (and therefore HP) in it's top gear. Top gear is usually geared closer to resemble an overdrive.
0-60 and 1/4 times: just as you would expect and see in the advertised performance numbers.
GS460 and IS350 would be in a near dead heat to 60mph, with a very slight edge given to the IS350 which is 400 lbs lighter and has a 4.08 rear end gear compared to the 460's 2.93. The 460's torque is the great equalizer here.
Once past the 60mph hurdle the 460 car pulls cleanly away with a higher HP and TQ peak and closer spaced tranny gears, which translates to a lower et and higher trap speed which the car maintains all the way to terminal speed.
GS430 and GS350... once again a near dead heat with the 350's 3.72 rear gear and being 200 lbs lighter matches the 430's greater torque. It's only the 430's torque peak at a lower 3,400 rpm that keeps it in step. As the cars continue past 60 mph, the GS350 is reving at a higher rpm than the 430 at every step of the way (3.72 vs 2.93) which continues to negate the 430's superior TQ; the 350 and 430 run neck and neck to the finish line. The 430, however, has greater TQ/RPM across the board so as the cars get closer to terminal velocity, the 430 is able to "pull" it's gearing more effectively and will pull away from the GS350, eventially reaching a higher terminal top speed.
It's only in the mid-range acceleration runs where I think the V8's torque will trump the V6. The V6 cars are all running lower rear end (higher numerically) gears, so they are spinning faster at any time than their V8 counter parts given the same trannies and tires. This put's them closer to their peak power bands, but it's torque that accelerates a car. If you punch it at 45 mph, if the V6 car does not down shift to a lower gear, it's acceleration is going to be sluggish. The V8 cars are spinning slower at 45 mph (2.92 gears) but when you punch it, the 50+ lbs/ft of torque at that low rpm will allow the car to "pull" that gear and accelerate more briskly than the V6 counterpart without having to perform the down shift. It's this mid-range "pull" that the V8 cars have that allows them to out accelerate (generally speaking) the V6 cars up to a certain point.
I do note that there are many IS350 posting on this site that show et and mph numbers way better than the advertised numbers.
GS430 300 hp at 5,600 rpm , 325 lbs/ft at 3,400 rpm, 2.93 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3954 lbs dry (?)
GS350 303 hp at 6,200 rpm , 274 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 3.72 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3795 lbs dry
GS460 342 hp at 6,200 rpm , 339 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 2.93 rear gear, 8 speed auto, .027 drag coeffiecent , 3954 lbs dry
IS350 303 hp at 6,200 rpm , 274 lbs/ft at 3,600 rpm, 4.08 rear gear, 6 speed auto, .028 drag coeffiecent , 3527 lbs dry
top speed king: no doubt, GS460 with higher specific HP/TQ with higher rear gear (lower numerically) and lowest drag coeffiecent . Weight is a non issue here, the 8 speed tranny has far more gears spaced closer together which keeps the 460 in the meat of it's power band at all times. The GS430 might edge the GS350 solely because the 430 car makes greater peak HP/TQ at a lower RPM than the GS350 , which despite it lower rear end gear (higher numericaly at 3.72) , might not have enough high rpm TQ to overcome the aerodynamic drag to reach it's peak HP rpm of 6,200 rpm in high gear.
The IS350, with the same drive train as the GS350 but with a lower rear end gear (higher numericaly) of 4.08, might be able to overcome it's slightly higher aerodynamic drag (.028) to get closer to it's peak HP rpm of 6,200 rpm in high gear. This might allow the IS350 to reach a higher terminal speed than the GS350 and possibly match or surpass even the GS430.
By the way, I doubt any of these cars would be able to reach max redline rpm (and therefore HP) in it's top gear. Top gear is usually geared closer to resemble an overdrive.
0-60 and 1/4 times: just as you would expect and see in the advertised performance numbers.
GS460 and IS350 would be in a near dead heat to 60mph, with a very slight edge given to the IS350 which is 400 lbs lighter and has a 4.08 rear end gear compared to the 460's 2.93. The 460's torque is the great equalizer here.
Once past the 60mph hurdle the 460 car pulls cleanly away with a higher HP and TQ peak and closer spaced tranny gears, which translates to a lower et and higher trap speed which the car maintains all the way to terminal speed.
GS430 and GS350... once again a near dead heat with the 350's 3.72 rear gear and being 200 lbs lighter matches the 430's greater torque. It's only the 430's torque peak at a lower 3,400 rpm that keeps it in step. As the cars continue past 60 mph, the GS350 is reving at a higher rpm than the 430 at every step of the way (3.72 vs 2.93) which continues to negate the 430's superior TQ; the 350 and 430 run neck and neck to the finish line. The 430, however, has greater TQ/RPM across the board so as the cars get closer to terminal velocity, the 430 is able to "pull" it's gearing more effectively and will pull away from the GS350, eventially reaching a higher terminal top speed.
It's only in the mid-range acceleration runs where I think the V8's torque will trump the V6. The V6 cars are all running lower rear end (higher numerically) gears, so they are spinning faster at any time than their V8 counter parts given the same trannies and tires. This put's them closer to their peak power bands, but it's torque that accelerates a car. If you punch it at 45 mph, if the V6 car does not down shift to a lower gear, it's acceleration is going to be sluggish. The V8 cars are spinning slower at 45 mph (2.92 gears) but when you punch it, the 50+ lbs/ft of torque at that low rpm will allow the car to "pull" that gear and accelerate more briskly than the V6 counterpart without having to perform the down shift. It's this mid-range "pull" that the V8 cars have that allows them to out accelerate (generally speaking) the V6 cars up to a certain point.
I do note that there are many IS350 posting on this site that show et and mph numbers way better than the advertised numbers.
09-02-08, 11:11 PM
#43
He purchased what he wanted and in the end that is what is important. It's his garage, his coin, his decision. No need to keep posting about comparisons or second guess the decision. Just congratulate him.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 09-02-08 at 11:17 PM.
09-03-08, 03:46 AM
#44
thanks everyone! haha...no worries on the other stuff! I am all about having fun! I did get the car used so with not wanting to wait I got the best car IMO that was in my area for the price and everything! I got the car for many reasons and one being for more room. I havent been one to worry about MPG or having the quickest car on the street. For where and what I can do with driving this car holds its self. If I went knew I would have gone GS350 for the savings and just because it would have been the perfect car to lease if I went that direction again.
