Traded my GS for a LS460 yesterday.
10-03-08, 11:21 AM
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10-04-08, 12:52 AM
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Going from a GS350 to an LS460 is not exactly an upgrade. The GS has a very connected feel and does exactly what you ask of it with very little effort. Everything is controlled until you hit some serious turns where you get excessive body roll. The car was super quiet after I had the OEM Yokohamas replaced with Michelin PS2s. On good roads it was super smooth but on roads with coarse gravel, it was a nightmare because road noise was deafening. I think the GS’s weakest point is insufficient underbody insulation. Still the best car I have ever owned!
The LS is obviously designed for luxury so it's soft and squishy but way more controlled than the ES. My ES350 squats and dives all over the place because it's way too soft. In town the LS is incredibly smooth. Every bump you think you will feel just disappears under the car. It’s amazingly quiet! I went to Starbucks tonight with my 8 year old son and we had a whisper contest. As quiet as we tried to be, we could always hear each other. In-freaking-credible!
On the highway, a interesting phenomenon arises. The GS eats up the miles like you're riding a magic carpet. The suspension perfectly absorbs everything on good roads and it’s VERY quiet. The LS is interestingly a tiny bit rougher on the same roads. I do mean a tiny bit. Instead of soaking up some of the small stuff like the GS, it gets transmitted into the car at higher speeds. It’s a mystery to me but I’m sure there is a logical explanation. Springs being too soft to counteract the damping forces of the shocks? Like if you tried to catch a basketball while laying on a mattress vs laying on the floor. Maybe I’m talking out of my you know what but it makes sense to me. Very subtle but something that’s obvious because I drive on the same road 260 miles round trip once a week. I know the road, I know the drive, I know how the GS feels and I know something is different. Still it’s very comfortable, no complaints here.
THINGS THAT IMPRESS:
Power - gobs of power, quicker than a GS350 – enough said.
Features - everything is taken to the next level like someone sat in the GS and said what can we do to make everything in the car just a touch nicer.
Auto folding side view mirrors - the GS should have these.
Nav screen is bigger, nav voice sounds better, display is better.
XM real time traffic linked to the Nav system so it automatically routes you around traffic.
Clock is the same color as the rest of the dash displays - you would think that was a given but not so in the GS. I hated that.
The driver and passenger temp settings are visible all the time - you don't have to tap the temp up/down button to get the temp display to drop down on the nav screen.
Roomy - there is more headroom but then again all cars have more headroom than the GS.
The Mark Levinson LS system has better imaging than the GS ML system. The GS's soundstage is at footwell level with DSP off and the LS's soundstage is at dash level where it should be.
Sound isolation is amazing, it’s a sensory deprivation chamber. I find myself turning the radio off just to see how quiet it is in the car.
EVERYTHING is backlit. The GS only has the gauges and center stack backlit vs. LS has every overhead, door, dash, center stack, button/dial backlit including the dials for closing the A/C vents and the steering wheel buttons. In the GS, you use the overhead buttons by feeling them but that often doesn't work because they all feel the same.
Everything is finished just a touch better - even taking apart the center stack to install the Prestigesociety module I noticed that the whole thing is made better. More clips, more screws, more pieces. Everything is very secure so probably less chance of getting rattles.
Hard drive for the sound system, integrated XM, built in aux input
Auto E-brake activation and release when parking plus auto brake hold at stoplights like the BMW 7 series. When you stop at an intersection, once the car comes to a complete stop you can take your foot off the brake and the car will hold the brake for you. When the light turns green you touch the throttle and the brakes release automatically. It's pretty slick, even with your foot off the brake in auto hold mode, the brake lights stay lit as if your foot was physically holding the brake.
No more direct injection ticking noise. Woo hoo!!!!!
The headrests are electric and can be adjusted
The seat bottom slides out separately for more thigh support
Did I mention the auto folding side view mirrors?
THINGS THAT DISAPPOINT:
No bi-xenon lights – I could not believe that this car does not have xenon high beams!
The subwoofer sucks in the LS Mark Levinson system . The GS sub sounds way better because it’s a free air sub with the trunk being the enclosure so it sounds tight and hits reasonably hard. The LS sub is a bandpass design with a tuned port. Certain bass freqs are intense and hit hard, everything outside of that narrow range is sloppy and boomy. I actually have to turn down the bass below the neutral point to make some tracks bearable. I need to figure out a way to add a sub in a sealed enclosure.
Self dimming rear view mirror but the side view mirrors are not self dimming! Not nice in their flagship luxury sedan.
Hard drive is kind of a lame gimmick – I was thinking I could load up a bunch of MP3s and listen to them like an iPod. Nope, you can only load audio CDs so you are essentially ripping CDs one track at a time from original CDs.
The car feels heavy and floats a bit - when pushed body roll is well controlled but not nearly as connected as the GS.
OVERALL:
It's a great car, I absolutely love it. Not sure if it can actually replace a GS though, make sure you guys do an extended test drive before pulling the trigger on one.
Sorry about the long post but I tried to put in some useful info and wanted to be thorough. As far as mods, I have a Prestige Society DVD/Nav module sitting on my desk, I ordered the Best of Sirius pack for the XM radio so I can have Howard Stern on XM, front side/rear side/back windows will be tinted dark, and the dealer is installing chrome wheels on Mon. I'll end this long post with a nice sunset pic I took on the way home today.
The LS is obviously designed for luxury so it's soft and squishy but way more controlled than the ES. My ES350 squats and dives all over the place because it's way too soft. In town the LS is incredibly smooth. Every bump you think you will feel just disappears under the car. It’s amazingly quiet! I went to Starbucks tonight with my 8 year old son and we had a whisper contest. As quiet as we tried to be, we could always hear each other. In-freaking-credible!
On the highway, a interesting phenomenon arises. The GS eats up the miles like you're riding a magic carpet. The suspension perfectly absorbs everything on good roads and it’s VERY quiet. The LS is interestingly a tiny bit rougher on the same roads. I do mean a tiny bit. Instead of soaking up some of the small stuff like the GS, it gets transmitted into the car at higher speeds. It’s a mystery to me but I’m sure there is a logical explanation. Springs being too soft to counteract the damping forces of the shocks? Like if you tried to catch a basketball while laying on a mattress vs laying on the floor. Maybe I’m talking out of my you know what but it makes sense to me. Very subtle but something that’s obvious because I drive on the same road 260 miles round trip once a week. I know the road, I know the drive, I know how the GS feels and I know something is different. Still it’s very comfortable, no complaints here.
THINGS THAT IMPRESS:
Power - gobs of power, quicker than a GS350 – enough said.
Features - everything is taken to the next level like someone sat in the GS and said what can we do to make everything in the car just a touch nicer.
Auto folding side view mirrors - the GS should have these.
Nav screen is bigger, nav voice sounds better, display is better.
XM real time traffic linked to the Nav system so it automatically routes you around traffic.
Clock is the same color as the rest of the dash displays - you would think that was a given but not so in the GS. I hated that.
The driver and passenger temp settings are visible all the time - you don't have to tap the temp up/down button to get the temp display to drop down on the nav screen.
Roomy - there is more headroom but then again all cars have more headroom than the GS.
The Mark Levinson LS system has better imaging than the GS ML system. The GS's soundstage is at footwell level with DSP off and the LS's soundstage is at dash level where it should be.
Sound isolation is amazing, it’s a sensory deprivation chamber. I find myself turning the radio off just to see how quiet it is in the car.
EVERYTHING is backlit. The GS only has the gauges and center stack backlit vs. LS has every overhead, door, dash, center stack, button/dial backlit including the dials for closing the A/C vents and the steering wheel buttons. In the GS, you use the overhead buttons by feeling them but that often doesn't work because they all feel the same.
Everything is finished just a touch better - even taking apart the center stack to install the Prestigesociety module I noticed that the whole thing is made better. More clips, more screws, more pieces. Everything is very secure so probably less chance of getting rattles.
Hard drive for the sound system, integrated XM, built in aux input
Auto E-brake activation and release when parking plus auto brake hold at stoplights like the BMW 7 series. When you stop at an intersection, once the car comes to a complete stop you can take your foot off the brake and the car will hold the brake for you. When the light turns green you touch the throttle and the brakes release automatically. It's pretty slick, even with your foot off the brake in auto hold mode, the brake lights stay lit as if your foot was physically holding the brake.
No more direct injection ticking noise. Woo hoo!!!!!
The headrests are electric and can be adjusted
The seat bottom slides out separately for more thigh support
Did I mention the auto folding side view mirrors?
THINGS THAT DISAPPOINT:
No bi-xenon lights – I could not believe that this car does not have xenon high beams!
The subwoofer sucks in the LS Mark Levinson system . The GS sub sounds way better because it’s a free air sub with the trunk being the enclosure so it sounds tight and hits reasonably hard. The LS sub is a bandpass design with a tuned port. Certain bass freqs are intense and hit hard, everything outside of that narrow range is sloppy and boomy. I actually have to turn down the bass below the neutral point to make some tracks bearable. I need to figure out a way to add a sub in a sealed enclosure.
Self dimming rear view mirror but the side view mirrors are not self dimming! Not nice in their flagship luxury sedan.
Hard drive is kind of a lame gimmick – I was thinking I could load up a bunch of MP3s and listen to them like an iPod. Nope, you can only load audio CDs so you are essentially ripping CDs one track at a time from original CDs.
The car feels heavy and floats a bit - when pushed body roll is well controlled but not nearly as connected as the GS.
OVERALL:
It's a great car, I absolutely love it. Not sure if it can actually replace a GS though, make sure you guys do an extended test drive before pulling the trigger on one.
Sorry about the long post but I tried to put in some useful info and wanted to be thorough. As far as mods, I have a Prestige Society DVD/Nav module sitting on my desk, I ordered the Best of Sirius pack for the XM radio so I can have Howard Stern on XM, front side/rear side/back windows will be tinted dark, and the dealer is installing chrome wheels on Mon. I'll end this long post with a nice sunset pic I took on the way home today.
Last edited by 2thfixr; 10-04-08 at 04:06 AM.
10-04-08, 04:07 AM
#52
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^ interesting read. well, just this last page anyway thats all i read through!
anyhow just throwing it out there, maybe the suspension on the LS is made a bit more progressive than the GS. so the GS seems so good till you get to a point and it passes its limit, whereas the LS may be more progressive so at the higher speeds the bumps the GS would take may be more transmitted to the car in a positive way by the LS hardening up. So you could go further and it would be firm and confident whereas the GS would stay at that level of suppleness even if you pushed it more and thus it wouldnt be as sure.
just an idea ..
anyhow just throwing it out there, maybe the suspension on the LS is made a bit more progressive than the GS. so the GS seems so good till you get to a point and it passes its limit, whereas the LS may be more progressive so at the higher speeds the bumps the GS would take may be more transmitted to the car in a positive way by the LS hardening up. So you could go further and it would be firm and confident whereas the GS would stay at that level of suppleness even if you pushed it more and thus it wouldnt be as sure.
just an idea ..
10-04-08, 05:39 AM
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2thfixr
Great report.
Question about tires on the GS. I have the Michelin Primacy 18" tires from the factory. They do have a fair bit of road noise on certain pavement (the only noise that makes it's way into the car). Are the Michelin PS2's quieter? I see they are less expensive than the Primacy at TireRack.com.
I drove a LS460L at the Lexus event in Miami 2 weeks ago. It was definately the quietest / smoothest car I have ever driven. So later in the week I went and drove a LS460 back to back with my GS350 on the same section of highway. For me, the LS was not worth the extra $$$. The GS had the tighter steering and the ride was similar. As for noise, the GS had more high frequency tire noise, but the LS had a lot of low frequency noise. I used my Radio Shack sound level meter and they came out the exact same (within slight road variation tolerance). Around town the LS seems smoother & quieter, but that seems to go away on the highway at 80. Have you compared the LS460L to the LS460?
Enjoy your new car.
Great report.
Question about tires on the GS. I have the Michelin Primacy 18" tires from the factory. They do have a fair bit of road noise on certain pavement (the only noise that makes it's way into the car). Are the Michelin PS2's quieter? I see they are less expensive than the Primacy at TireRack.com.
I drove a LS460L at the Lexus event in Miami 2 weeks ago. It was definately the quietest / smoothest car I have ever driven. So later in the week I went and drove a LS460 back to back with my GS350 on the same section of highway. For me, the LS was not worth the extra $$$. The GS had the tighter steering and the ride was similar. As for noise, the GS had more high frequency tire noise, but the LS had a lot of low frequency noise. I used my Radio Shack sound level meter and they came out the exact same (within slight road variation tolerance). Around town the LS seems smoother & quieter, but that seems to go away on the highway at 80. Have you compared the LS460L to the LS460?
Enjoy your new car.
10-06-08, 03:41 PM
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@ Socal -Yeah, the GS is a great all around car. There is a lot of talk about it being soul less but IMHO, it has the right balance of luxury and a touch of sport. If you look at the numbers there is nothing out there that compares for the money. Try looking for something with 28-29mpg and 0-60 in 5.7s. There aren't many options and of those options none are in the GS350's price range.
@ TommyD3 - I have never tried the Primacy HP but the PS2s I had were silent so I couldn't ask for anything better. Also, they are the grippiest tires money can buy next to race compound tires. They came stock on my 08 Turbo and my 06 997S cab. Great treadwear as well, I put 21k miles on them with no cupping issues or irregular wear. They looked like they could easily go another 20k miles which is amazing for a ultra high performance tire. Probably the most expensive tire you could put on a GS but definitely worth it.
@ TommyD3 - I have never tried the Primacy HP but the PS2s I had were silent so I couldn't ask for anything better. Also, they are the grippiest tires money can buy next to race compound tires. They came stock on my 08 Turbo and my 06 997S cab. Great treadwear as well, I put 21k miles on them with no cupping issues or irregular wear. They looked like they could easily go another 20k miles which is amazing for a ultra high performance tire. Probably the most expensive tire you could put on a GS but definitely worth it.
10-06-08, 04:48 PM
#56
nice write up, very cool.
you hit a lot of points which i agree. some small points i don't (like the ML system, where i find the ML on my LS being far better than my gs), but overall you covered the difference and comparisons
and also part of the reasons why i got rid of my ls460l
you hit a lot of points which i agree. some small points i don't (like the ML system, where i find the ML on my LS being far better than my gs), but overall you covered the difference and comparisons
and also part of the reasons why i got rid of my ls460l
10-06-08, 08:01 PM
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Yes definitely faster than my wife's S500 but probably on par with the new S550 with 7 speed tranny. It's not meant to be driven fast though, I found that out today. It's always sitting 2-3 gears too high and doesn't kick down until you really stomp on it. You would think with 8 gears it would constantly switch seamlessly with slight throttle changes. Instead it holds higher gears and resists downshifting until I really mash the pedal down and force it to submit. The GS did everything right and IMO had perfect shift points. I had to put the LS in PWR mode to get it closer to what I wanted in town. The GS is definitely more relaxing to drive because it just does what you ask, the LS is kind of lazy and you have to make it do what you want it to do.
@ Romini - The LS ML system is far better than the GS system. It's not even a comparison with regards to clarity and imaging. My only gripe is the subwoofer. I prefer tight bass over sloppy boomy bass. I like to feel bass hit hard like a sneak attack and disappear without lingering. A perfect example is Hotel California from the When Hell Freezes Over album by the Eagles. There is A LOT of bass in that track but it has to hit hard. I want to feel the drum kicks hit me in the back of the head not feel the resonance of a disappaiting bass note all over my body. Certainly a matter of preference so everybody will have differening views on that.
@ Romini - The LS ML system is far better than the GS system. It's not even a comparison with regards to clarity and imaging. My only gripe is the subwoofer. I prefer tight bass over sloppy boomy bass. I like to feel bass hit hard like a sneak attack and disappear without lingering. A perfect example is Hotel California from the When Hell Freezes Over album by the Eagles. There is A LOT of bass in that track but it has to hit hard. I want to feel the drum kicks hit me in the back of the head not feel the resonance of a disappaiting bass note all over my body. Certainly a matter of preference so everybody will have differening views on that.
10-06-08, 10:51 PM
#60
great post again robert on the ML system, i think i know what you mean. and yes, on the clarity, gosh, i miss my ls460l so much 
i know what you mean on the gear selection, the ls460 is more of a smooth driver. but i think it has to do with habit as well. i cruise in my gs350 a lot, and the ecu has adapted to my "mild" driving. the few times i needed to hit it the gear box actually failed on me big time as they refused to down shift fast enough.
on the other hand, the other weekend i work on a client's ls460. he drives very aggressively. gosh, when i did the test drive on his car did i drive like an idiot... my wife was in the car and she kept on telling me to stop stomping on the gas. i told her i am just barely touching it
try to break in the ls460 and the drive hard for a while, let the ecu adapt to your driving, hopefully that helps a bit
i know what you mean on the gear selection, the ls460 is more of a smooth driver. but i think it has to do with habit as well. i cruise in my gs350 a lot, and the ecu has adapted to my "mild" driving. the few times i needed to hit it the gear box actually failed on me big time as they refused to down shift fast enough.
on the other hand, the other weekend i work on a client's ls460. he drives very aggressively. gosh, when i did the test drive on his car did i drive like an idiot... my wife was in the car and she kept on telling me to stop stomping on the gas. i told her i am just barely touching it
try to break in the ls460 and the drive hard for a while, let the ecu adapt to your driving, hopefully that helps a bit