3GS drivers, what will be your next car?
03-21-09, 07:15 AM
#31
For my immediate next car, I'm looking at:
S2000 AP1
Early '90s NSX
But that's not to replace my GS, it's to replace my NA8 Miata.
For the GS replacement, I would be looking for something with 4WD/AWD and towing capacity, but not too big, so I can tow the little car to the track or go up the mountains during winter without putting chains on...
X5? Range Rover Sport? Venza? MDX?
or scrap all that and put all my money in Citigroup
S2000 AP1
Early '90s NSX
But that's not to replace my GS, it's to replace my NA8 Miata.
For the GS replacement, I would be looking for something with 4WD/AWD and towing capacity, but not too big, so I can tow the little car to the track or go up the mountains during winter without putting chains on...
X5? Range Rover Sport? Venza? MDX?
or scrap all that and put all my money in Citigroup
03-21-09, 02:21 PM
#35
Yang,
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
03-21-09, 02:44 PM
#36
Yang,
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
03-21-09, 10:09 PM
#37
Yang,
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
Yes, the run-flats killed the deal. I'm in contact with other BMWphiles who state the run-flats are among their most significant complaints, including one who had one destroyed in the southwest. Although BMW paid for the tow, they didn't have his tire size in stock, and he had to spend two days waiting. I drive between San Diego and Tulsa once or twice a year, covering some pretty remote territory. I want a spare available.
Also, most of the individuals I'm in contact with who also (like me) had pre-runflat BMW's feel the ride has been compromised with the runflat's.
gs with run-flats don't come with donuts though, you will have to get them extra technically
03-22-09, 12:39 AM
#39
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03-22-09, 08:39 AM
#40
I have been a long time GS fan and thought that I would want a 3GS after I get sick of my car, but I would want to keep both. When I was a kid my neighbor got a 1998 black GS 400 (right when they came out) and at 11 years old, I thought it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. From that moment on I was a Lexus guy and also a GS guy.
Fast forward ten years and I finally bought my first Lexus, a 2GS none the less, and love it. Two summers ago I had an internship with Lexus corporate and drove several models of Lexus'...two of the cars I spent the most time with were a Black/Black GS 450h and a Matador/Black GS 300. At that time I had a '00 4Runner Sport so either of the GSs felt like I was in a dream while I was driving them, but at the same time, something was missing. My family has owned a Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche and while every car has something different that's unique I was left disconnected with the GS when I turned the keys back in, which was odd because it's a car I wanted to love.
I have noted, in a few different threads, that the main problem Lexus has with the 3GS is that they completely and utterly ruined the driving experience with how they tuned the power steering. Yes, the IS is sharper and more responsive, and the LS is a tad slower and less sporty, but the GS has the problem of feeling completely unnatural and odd. On center the steering wheel feels completely dead, but as soon as you decide to turn, it feels like it gathers weight so quickly that it seems nearly counter productive- almost like it's working against you. IMO, the car just feels oddly robotic in turns and 100% disconnected. It's like Lexus said, "Ok we need it to be smooth because it's a Lexus...so let's make it completely dead on center. Ok well its a GS which is supposed to be sporty, so let's make the steering really heavy at anything above 25mph."
To me, it's just not linear and it's not natural feeling...and I hate that. For comparison I have driven E classes (more composed, far better steering) and 5 series (obviously sportier and better handling) and while I know that each car has it's own personality I just cannot seem to fall in love with the GS. I think the exterior is gorgeous...easily the best looking car in it's class IMO. Long hood, short rear deck lid, coupe-esque profile...they got the exterior design just right in my eyes. I have an issue with the interior though- a lack of options and colors. You only get black with red/purple wood, grey with dark grey wood, or tan with red/brown wood. Lexus should have offered more options with more passion. Black on black wood? Saddle? Camel? Espresso wood? I don't particularly care for any of the three interior combinations but if forced to choose I would likely go with the black by default. The interior quality is, IMO, a step below my car although I do really like the design.
Then you consider engines- This cycle of GS has seen 300, 350, 430, 460, and 450h. Holy cow. Dropping the 3.0L into the 300 at launch was a mistake and they lost a lot of advertising ability and street credibility by doing that. We also had the same V8 that had been around for years when the competition was at 350-380hp. Then we got the hybrid, which is IMO, one of the high points of the GS line but not for me. Then we got the 350, and a year later the 460 which compared to the competition and LS 460, is really only marginally better than the 430 it replaced.
Even before the suspension modifications I think my 2GS is a better driving car than the new one, due in large part to the steering. Not as fast, obviously, but it's not all about speed. I also think my interior is better built and more unique (saddle leather). So back to my original predicament of possibly wanting a 3GS. I look at my current car as having a better interior, relatively speaking, and being a better drive, and those are probably the two biggest things that I prioritize. I think I would quickly become dissatisfied if I owned a newer version of my car that had interior rattles and if I had to fight with that power steering all day long. However, I do still love that exterior and wouldn't mind having the 3.5L V6 for both power and gas mileage. As noted above, interior design and quality as well as driving characteristics are high on my list but so are quality, reliability, and dependability which are things the GS does well at.
With my ranting coming to an end, I guess that I should mention that when considering my own experiences and opinions I have been looking a lot at the Infiniti M in recent weeks. It drives far better than the GS, is a tad larger, has much better interior colors and combinations, is quite reliable, and offers solid engines and performance. I think the exterior of the GS is better looking but do prefer the interior of the M overall. I will have to continue looking into them to see what specific colors and combinations I like, but I am not near the point of purchase anyway...just keeping an eye on the future
. I have also thought a lot about getting a GX or SC, too.
All in all, if Lexus had given the GS a proper suspension and power steering tuning, it would be hands down my next car and I could handle the interior rattles. I am not sure if aftermarket suspension changes could overcome my qualms with how the car drives, but it seems to me that the tuning Lexus has done to the power steering would be hard to correct for any of us. Not sure if I will end up with a 3GS, GX, SC, or M after I get sick of my current car...it will be a game time decision I guess.
Then again...this thread isn't really directed towards me, I just threw in my .02 after reading many of the other comments.
Fast forward ten years and I finally bought my first Lexus, a 2GS none the less, and love it. Two summers ago I had an internship with Lexus corporate and drove several models of Lexus'...two of the cars I spent the most time with were a Black/Black GS 450h and a Matador/Black GS 300. At that time I had a '00 4Runner Sport so either of the GSs felt like I was in a dream while I was driving them, but at the same time, something was missing. My family has owned a Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche and while every car has something different that's unique I was left disconnected with the GS when I turned the keys back in, which was odd because it's a car I wanted to love.
I have noted, in a few different threads, that the main problem Lexus has with the 3GS is that they completely and utterly ruined the driving experience with how they tuned the power steering. Yes, the IS is sharper and more responsive, and the LS is a tad slower and less sporty, but the GS has the problem of feeling completely unnatural and odd. On center the steering wheel feels completely dead, but as soon as you decide to turn, it feels like it gathers weight so quickly that it seems nearly counter productive- almost like it's working against you. IMO, the car just feels oddly robotic in turns and 100% disconnected. It's like Lexus said, "Ok we need it to be smooth because it's a Lexus...so let's make it completely dead on center. Ok well its a GS which is supposed to be sporty, so let's make the steering really heavy at anything above 25mph."
To me, it's just not linear and it's not natural feeling...and I hate that. For comparison I have driven E classes (more composed, far better steering) and 5 series (obviously sportier and better handling) and while I know that each car has it's own personality I just cannot seem to fall in love with the GS. I think the exterior is gorgeous...easily the best looking car in it's class IMO. Long hood, short rear deck lid, coupe-esque profile...they got the exterior design just right in my eyes. I have an issue with the interior though- a lack of options and colors. You only get black with red/purple wood, grey with dark grey wood, or tan with red/brown wood. Lexus should have offered more options with more passion. Black on black wood? Saddle? Camel? Espresso wood? I don't particularly care for any of the three interior combinations but if forced to choose I would likely go with the black by default. The interior quality is, IMO, a step below my car although I do really like the design.
Then you consider engines- This cycle of GS has seen 300, 350, 430, 460, and 450h. Holy cow. Dropping the 3.0L into the 300 at launch was a mistake and they lost a lot of advertising ability and street credibility by doing that. We also had the same V8 that had been around for years when the competition was at 350-380hp. Then we got the hybrid, which is IMO, one of the high points of the GS line but not for me. Then we got the 350, and a year later the 460 which compared to the competition and LS 460, is really only marginally better than the 430 it replaced.
Even before the suspension modifications I think my 2GS is a better driving car than the new one, due in large part to the steering. Not as fast, obviously, but it's not all about speed. I also think my interior is better built and more unique (saddle leather). So back to my original predicament of possibly wanting a 3GS. I look at my current car as having a better interior, relatively speaking, and being a better drive, and those are probably the two biggest things that I prioritize. I think I would quickly become dissatisfied if I owned a newer version of my car that had interior rattles and if I had to fight with that power steering all day long. However, I do still love that exterior and wouldn't mind having the 3.5L V6 for both power and gas mileage. As noted above, interior design and quality as well as driving characteristics are high on my list but so are quality, reliability, and dependability which are things the GS does well at.
With my ranting coming to an end, I guess that I should mention that when considering my own experiences and opinions I have been looking a lot at the Infiniti M in recent weeks. It drives far better than the GS, is a tad larger, has much better interior colors and combinations, is quite reliable, and offers solid engines and performance. I think the exterior of the GS is better looking but do prefer the interior of the M overall. I will have to continue looking into them to see what specific colors and combinations I like, but I am not near the point of purchase anyway...just keeping an eye on the future
. I have also thought a lot about getting a GX or SC, too. All in all, if Lexus had given the GS a proper suspension and power steering tuning, it would be hands down my next car and I could handle the interior rattles. I am not sure if aftermarket suspension changes could overcome my qualms with how the car drives, but it seems to me that the tuning Lexus has done to the power steering would be hard to correct for any of us. Not sure if I will end up with a 3GS, GX, SC, or M after I get sick of my current car...it will be a game time decision I guess.
Then again...this thread isn't really directed towards me, I just threw in my .02 after reading many of the other comments.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 03-22-09 at 08:42 AM.
03-22-09, 08:49 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
03-22-09, 03:49 PM
#44
Pole Position
gs with run-flats don't come with donuts though, you will have to get them extra technically[/QUOTE]
My GS came with run flats and I have a spare...
My car had alignment issue that the dealer blamed on the run flats...they changed to MICHELINS for free....so I had a heart attack thinking they gave mea new set of tires w/o a spare.
My GS came with run flats and I have a spare...
My car had alignment issue that the dealer blamed on the run flats...they changed to MICHELINS for free....so I had a heart attack thinking they gave mea new set of tires w/o a spare.
03-22-09, 03:51 PM
#45
Pole Position