4TH Generation GS coming...
01-30-10, 02:35 PM
#106
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They should probably stay home and tweet and update their Facebook profile rather than drive around distracted by all this crap. And seriously, there's a REASON Lexus doesn't let you enter addresses at 80 mph.
01-30-10, 03:30 PM
#107
The weird thing about Lexus is they sell more LS models than GS even though the LS is more expensive. MB and BMW sell more, far more E class and 5 series than S-Class and 7 series.
i guess it's cause Lexus launched with the LS and it is the iconic Lexus with bulletproof rep and idendity. The GS has always been kind of in the murky middle, never really having a clearly defined niche like the 5 and E. And Infinity doesnt have an LS competitor anymore, having given up on the Q a long time ago. So they just sell more M's because that's your only option. I'm sure some people think the G37 is a GS competitor, but really the M is a closer Match.
i guess it's cause Lexus launched with the LS and it is the iconic Lexus with bulletproof rep and idendity. The GS has always been kind of in the murky middle, never really having a clearly defined niche like the 5 and E. And Infinity doesnt have an LS competitor anymore, having given up on the Q a long time ago. So they just sell more M's because that's your only option. I'm sure some people think the G37 is a GS competitor, but really the M is a closer Match.
yes, winning in the flagship LS is important, no doubt. but also no doubt is the mass majority out there is the C/E, and 3/5. the gs has to be able to compete with the e and 5 in order to strengthen their status in the luxury market
now i know it's not easy, e and 5 have so much heritage and loyalty behind them. it's beyond tough. but this is a tough business, especially now
01-30-10, 03:36 PM
#108
The younger demographic strikes me as being shallow and more interested in 'sexting' and Axe body spray then actually appreciating a quality driving experience.
They should probably stay home and tweet and update their Facebook profile rather than drive around distracted by all this crap. And seriously, there's a REASON Lexus doesn't let you enter addresses at 80 mph.
They should probably stay home and tweet and update their Facebook profile rather than drive around distracted by all this crap. And seriously, there's a REASON Lexus doesn't let you enter addresses at 80 mph.
the ls is the epitome of lexus at its finest. luxury, class, and refinement. it is adopting those factors into its other rides, but the ls is by far top notch in not only its segment but also in the auto industry. the new gs to me seems like the middle child. ls being the eldest, IS being the baby. the gs blends both luxury from the ls and sporty-ness of the IS. ive been anticipating a new redesign for the GS for awhile, so hopefully lexus wows us!
01-30-10, 07:50 PM
#109
i know i am probably against some here, but i have to agree with this. the LS is selling very well. and i think in order to say that the GS (future generation) is successful, lexus somehow has to break the barrier and boost the sales of gs up to compete head to head with bmw and mb.
yes, winning in the flagship LS is important, no doubt. but also no doubt is the mass majority out there is the C/E, and 3/5. the gs has to be able to compete with the e and 5 in order to strengthen their status in the luxury market
now i know it's not easy, e and 5 have so much heritage and loyalty behind them. it's beyond tough. but this is a tough business, especially now
yes, winning in the flagship LS is important, no doubt. but also no doubt is the mass majority out there is the C/E, and 3/5. the gs has to be able to compete with the e and 5 in order to strengthen their status in the luxury market
now i know it's not easy, e and 5 have so much heritage and loyalty behind them. it's beyond tough. but this is a tough business, especially now
The whole value proposition of the Lexus brand is to over deliver relative to what the German's provide. I think the GS is the one Lexus which doesn't really do that.
01-30-10, 08:21 PM
#110
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I think it is very simple to solve. They should build the GS to the same standard as the LS and it will sell very well. This will mean adding air suspension, and also having the same quality of interior trim as opposed to the excessively plastic interior in the GS.
The whole value proposition of the Lexus brand is to over deliver relative to what the German's provide. I think the GS is the one Lexus which doesn't really do that.
The whole value proposition of the Lexus brand is to over deliver relative to what the German's provide. I think the GS is the one Lexus which doesn't really do that.
01-31-10, 01:41 PM
#111
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I am curious whether they go the direction of Lexus in the UK and adopt a hybrid only positioning for the GS.
They could have a GS350h with a 2.5 liter hybrid drive, and a GS450h with a 3.5 liter hybrid drive, and a GS550h with a 4.6 liter hybrid drive. That would be cool. I would be all over a GS550h.
They could have a GS350h with a 2.5 liter hybrid drive, and a GS450h with a 3.5 liter hybrid drive, and a GS550h with a 4.6 liter hybrid drive. That would be cool. I would be all over a GS550h.
I like your thoughts though. I hope that's true, but I am wary of elevated expectations (e.g. 5ES will be better than LS turned out to mean 1LS, which is great but a bit less amazing). IMO, the 3GS is a very unique example of L-finesse and does it well; however I'd be happy with a redesign which smooths some of its more angular points, Jaguar XF having taken the 3GS design and done some of that. If they take it in a different direction that could be good too--the stage is set with the new E, 5, XF, etc already showing their appearance.
However, looks really are not the priority, although they are important--the packaging is, and the 4GS' new drive, interior room, amenities etc. are key. The 'revolutionary' tech is great to hear, however hopefully it will be appreciated by a wider audience. When the 3GS came out, articles written suggested Lexus touted the car as the most technologically-advanced sedan yet built, and in quite a few ways (VDIM, first RWD hybrid, etc.) it was and in certain aspects still is. I'm hoping for more 'wow' factor and increased relevance in the mid-size market. The 4GS could be a standard-bearer for Lexus. Not expecting 1997's "Something Wicked This Way Comes" with the fastest V8 sedan in the world*, but a worthy or interesting followup would be great.
Well, the 2GS and 3GS both started out with great sales and it dropped off over the years down to a trickle. Now purely on the strength of the Lexus brand, I expect any 4GS effort to also have a similar effect in its first year(s); the subsequent years will be a measure of its overall success. The 2GS cycle was extra long and its drop-off curve slightly less steep, but the 3GS had the best overall sales of the line in its first year.
Additionally, in Japan, the LS has been a big seller; the overall best-seller last year was the HS. In my visits I have seen many LS, RX, and IS, but only a few GS.
However, looks really are not the priority, although they are important--the packaging is, and the 4GS' new drive, interior room, amenities etc. are key. The 'revolutionary' tech is great to hear, however hopefully it will be appreciated by a wider audience. When the 3GS came out, articles written suggested Lexus touted the car as the most technologically-advanced sedan yet built, and in quite a few ways (VDIM, first RWD hybrid, etc.) it was and in certain aspects still is. I'm hoping for more 'wow' factor and increased relevance in the mid-size market. The 4GS could be a standard-bearer for Lexus. Not expecting 1997's "Something Wicked This Way Comes" with the fastest V8 sedan in the world*, but a worthy or interesting followup would be great.
Well, the 2GS and 3GS both started out with great sales and it dropped off over the years down to a trickle. Now purely on the strength of the Lexus brand, I expect any 4GS effort to also have a similar effect in its first year(s); the subsequent years will be a measure of its overall success. The 2GS cycle was extra long and its drop-off curve slightly less steep, but the 3GS had the best overall sales of the line in its first year.
Additionally, in Japan, the LS has been a big seller; the overall best-seller last year was the HS. In my visits I have seen many LS, RX, and IS, but only a few GS.
The weird thing about Lexus is they sell more LS models than GS even though the LS is more expensive. MB and BMW sell more, far more E class and 5 series than S-Class and 7 series.
i guess it's cause Lexus launched with the LS and it is the iconic Lexus with bulletproof rep and idendity. The GS has always been kind of in the murky middle, never really having a clearly defined niche like the 5 and E. And Infinity doesnt have an LS competitor anymore, having given up on the Q a long time ago. So they just sell more M's because that's your only option. I'm sure some people think the G37 is a GS competitor, but really the M is a closer Match.
i guess it's cause Lexus launched with the LS and it is the iconic Lexus with bulletproof rep and idendity. The GS has always been kind of in the murky middle, never really having a clearly defined niche like the 5 and E. And Infinity doesnt have an LS competitor anymore, having given up on the Q a long time ago. So they just sell more M's because that's your only option. I'm sure some people think the G37 is a GS competitor, but really the M is a closer Match.
FYI the GS outsold the M35/45 every year but 2009.
That sounds good. But I sure hope they are not going to stay in the rear of the pack on the electronics. I am TIRED of having the highest end Lexus model having completely inferior telematics to a Ford Focus equipped with Sync. Even Hyundai now is getting into the act with their SYNC clone - it was pretty nice when I played with it at CES.
If lexus wants to attract a younger tier of customer, they need to get this right. It used to to be that the middle aged folks loved lexus when it first came out, and the older people stayed with Cadillac and Buick, etc... Now, that demographic is older, and Lexus is starting to be the old Cadillac in status, while others are challenging Lexus where they used to be strong.
Lexus can't afford to be lagging on the telematics side any more.
If lexus wants to attract a younger tier of customer, they need to get this right. It used to to be that the middle aged folks loved lexus when it first came out, and the older people stayed with Cadillac and Buick, etc... Now, that demographic is older, and Lexus is starting to be the old Cadillac in status, while others are challenging Lexus where they used to be strong.
Lexus can't afford to be lagging on the telematics side any more.
Look at BMW, the "drivers" car has more tech aids than Lexus. 
Given the current design direction seen with Lexus's latest models, My hopes are not hight.
I actually thing the 3GS is the best looking Lexus ever, with the original SC coupe. Everything seems to be getting taller, chunkier and fatter. I was looking at a really old BMW 635 csi the other day and realized how slim the roof pillars were, and close to the ground the hood and especially trunk were. I guess safety and aerodynamics dictates so much of car design now.
I actually thing the 3GS is the best looking Lexus ever, with the original SC coupe. Everything seems to be getting taller, chunkier and fatter. I was looking at a really old BMW 635 csi the other day and realized how slim the roof pillars were, and close to the ground the hood and especially trunk were. I guess safety and aerodynamics dictates so much of car design now.
That is just for the HS, not for all models and because it is a hybrid only.
The definition of good nav has changed. Live traffic routing, being able to lookup points of interest through the Internet and being able to download destanations through the web to the native Nav is now essential. My google phone does all that and much more for free.
Ipod integration isn't enough, you need bluetooth streaming, steering wheel controls for bluetooth, and USB ports for media access and firmware updates.
Not to mention hands free audio and a2dp support for music.
Ipod integration isn't enough, you need bluetooth streaming, steering wheel controls for bluetooth, and USB ports for media access and firmware updates.
Not to mention hands free audio and a2dp support for music.
NAV is just a moot point. Once it is in there and I have my phone.
i think it's a mistake to try and 'sport' up the GS. Lexus will never out BMW BMW. You just aren't gonna get 5 series drivers to switch to a GS. They should do what you're saying, basically. Position the GS as kind of a 7/8ths scale LS. With the horrible economy you'd think that more potential LS buyers might balk at dropping $70-100K on a car, but if the GS were positioned as a $45-60K option that looks like the LS and is just as quiet and soft. Lexus should stick to making isolation booths. They kind of tried to make the GS sporty, but really neither the ride/handling or quietness are acceptable to LS drivers.
It might be VERY possible this is what happens.
HS/IS entry level
ES (moved up)/GS mid level
LS
With the HS/ES being the full luxury and the IS/GS being sporty.
01-31-10, 02:01 PM
#112
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This thing looks like the front of a Civic and the rear of a Camry. I'm not sold on that idea at all. I do not like the cab forward idea that is being taken by so many automakers. Recently got a rental for a trek to Vegas, and was given a brand spanking new Impala. Very nice looking car, had all the amenities Chevy offered. I was thrilled - until I got in. Those of us who are tall require more room for ingress/egress, and there simply was no room. Given that this is a "full size" car, should the back of the front seat have been touching the rear seat? I see the same problem here, with the possibility that it's not as bad as the Impala, but why are they moving the pillars so far forward in the front now??
BTW - traded out the Impala for an Altima. Smaller car, taller, and it had more room to get in and out because they didn't care about the size of the rear door. It was still functional, however, and had more room. A cavernous trunk means nothing if you can't get the people inside the car!
Big Mack
01-31-10, 02:10 PM
#113
HS250h is ugly. But I don't have any worries about Lexus going in that design direction. Everyone knows its a rebadged Toyota Avensis. No way Lexus future design direction is rebadging Toyotas. As a company Toyota is not that suicidal!
01-31-10, 04:59 PM
#116
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Ford can download new updates into the Sync system and add a lot of capabilities. It can use your phone to get to the Internet via bluetooth to gain access to the net, as well as downloading updates, or it can be done with a USB flash drive. This means that Sync owners get new value every year through updates and Ford doesn't have to be changing out hardware every year to keep up.
It might be nice if Lexus learned from Ford for a change.
03-11-10, 07:32 AM
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Here's another case of how Ford's technology is beating Lexus on the electronics side: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...arking-system/
Take a look at the video of it here: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/31/v...allel-parking/
This is now in production and getting great reviews for it's performance in the field.
Why is Toyota languishing so much on the tech side?
Take a look at the video of it here: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/31/v...allel-parking/
This is now in production and getting great reviews for it's performance in the field.
Why is Toyota languishing so much on the tech side?
03-11-10, 08:58 AM
#118
Here's another case of how Ford's technology is beating Lexus on the electronics side: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...arking-system/
Take a look at the video of it here: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/31/v...allel-parking/
This is now in production and getting great reviews for it's performance in the field.
Why is Toyota languishing so much on the tech side?
Take a look at the video of it here: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/31/v...allel-parking/
This is now in production and getting great reviews for it's performance in the field.
Why is Toyota languishing so much on the tech side?
and honestly, it's more of a gadget (cool) than something useful. i tried the system for maybe 4-5 times in my ls460l, every time it was to demonstrate to people coz' they wanted to see.
and gs is far from a big car, imho if anyone needs this kind of system to park, they probably shouldn't even drive the gs to begin with
personally i think in some areas toyota can improve their tech, mostly toward euro cars, but i would never think they are behind that much at all
03-11-10, 09:12 AM
#119
03-11-10, 09:18 AM
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the ls460 has had that feature since more than 3 yrs ago, it's nothing new anymore.
and honestly, it's more of a gadget (cool) than something useful. i tried the system for maybe 4-5 times in my ls460l, every time it was to demonstrate to people coz' they wanted to see.
and gs is far from a big car, imho if anyone needs this kind of system to park, they probably shouldn't even drive the gs to begin with
personally i think in some areas toyota can improve their tech, mostly toward euro cars, but i would never think they are behind that much at all
and honestly, it's more of a gadget (cool) than something useful. i tried the system for maybe 4-5 times in my ls460l, every time it was to demonstrate to people coz' they wanted to see.
and gs is far from a big car, imho if anyone needs this kind of system to park, they probably shouldn't even drive the gs to begin with
personally i think in some areas toyota can improve their tech, mostly toward euro cars, but i would never think they are behind that much at all