08 GS350 -vs- 08 BMW 535i -vs- 08 MB E350
05-31-09, 08:39 PM
#16
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yes those 535 seats are nice - especially with the optional seat package (its a 14-way power seat and I believe an upgraded quality leather). If I do go the BMW route - that seat package is a must have.
06-01-09, 05:24 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Hi,
I am shopping for a new car to replace my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII. I am looking at midsize luxury sedans, and have pretty much narrowed it down to the three subject cars. My priorities are (in order):
1. Overall wow factor (do I get tingles inside every time I look at it, are coworkers shocked and awe'd when they see it in the parking lot, lots of complements and questions)
2. Overall cost (accounting for vehicle purchase price - resale, maintenance, fuel, insurance)
3. Ride & comfort: ride quality and noise isolation are very important to me. No sport packages with low profile tires or aftermarket exhausts - think quiet and smooth
4. Straightline performance: I'm not a canyon carver at all - but I do like to waste buddies at stoplights every chance I get. I would say minimum acceptable numbers would be a 1/4 mile trap speed in the very high 90's and a 0-60 time of no greater than 6 seconds flat.
I usually keep my cars for 10 years - and plan to do so with this purchase. My last 2 vehicles have been off 2 year leases - and then kept for 10 years. Because of this, long term maintenance costs are a big factor in the total cost.
I'm just looking for thoughts and input on this from owners well versed in the pro's and con's.
PS: Not interested in the 2006 GS430 (interior is just too dated for me) or the ES350 (front wheel drive is for girls)
Thanks,
Calvin
2003 Lincoln Navigator Ultimate 4X4
1997 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC
I am shopping for a new car to replace my 97 Lincoln Mark VIII. I am looking at midsize luxury sedans, and have pretty much narrowed it down to the three subject cars. My priorities are (in order):
1. Overall wow factor (do I get tingles inside every time I look at it, are coworkers shocked and awe'd when they see it in the parking lot, lots of complements and questions)
2. Overall cost (accounting for vehicle purchase price - resale, maintenance, fuel, insurance)
3. Ride & comfort: ride quality and noise isolation are very important to me. No sport packages with low profile tires or aftermarket exhausts - think quiet and smooth
4. Straightline performance: I'm not a canyon carver at all - but I do like to waste buddies at stoplights every chance I get. I would say minimum acceptable numbers would be a 1/4 mile trap speed in the very high 90's and a 0-60 time of no greater than 6 seconds flat.
I usually keep my cars for 10 years - and plan to do so with this purchase. My last 2 vehicles have been off 2 year leases - and then kept for 10 years. Because of this, long term maintenance costs are a big factor in the total cost.
I'm just looking for thoughts and input on this from owners well versed in the pro's and con's.
PS: Not interested in the 2006 GS430 (interior is just too dated for me) or the ES350 (front wheel drive is for girls)
Thanks,
Calvin
2003 Lincoln Navigator Ultimate 4X4
1997 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC
A straight line car and a smooth rider. Lets face it, you are not going to get any wow factor from any of these cars, not for long anyways.
The GS and the BMW rides pretty rough and the MB doesnt have enough power for you. Have you look at the new Lincoln MKS?
06-01-09, 07:03 AM
#18
Someone said Mercedes includes free maintenance... This is not true but used to be I believe about 4 years ago or so.
None of these cars will wow anyone unfortunately. The GS is the quickest and can be surprisingly quick to none the wiser. It will pull a 14.0 quarter and sits in the mid 5s for 0 to 60.
I would not get the BMW because of iDrive. I would get the GS because of the amazing touch screen. The Mercedes has a junk navi system as well unless you go with an '09 which will cost quite a bit more.
Get a used GS for under 40k and you will be very happy with the reliability and cost of maintenance. Consider the GS460 because at least that engine doesn't sound like a sewing machine. I HATE that about my 350. Gas mileage is a little worse but the V8 passing power is better on the highway. Off the line it is about the same as a 350.
None of these cars will wow anyone unfortunately. The GS is the quickest and can be surprisingly quick to none the wiser. It will pull a 14.0 quarter and sits in the mid 5s for 0 to 60.
I would not get the BMW because of iDrive. I would get the GS because of the amazing touch screen. The Mercedes has a junk navi system as well unless you go with an '09 which will cost quite a bit more.
Get a used GS for under 40k and you will be very happy with the reliability and cost of maintenance. Consider the GS460 because at least that engine doesn't sound like a sewing machine. I HATE that about my 350. Gas mileage is a little worse but the V8 passing power is better on the highway. Off the line it is about the same as a 350.
06-01-09, 08:15 AM
#19
There's too many BMW's on the road, and it seems like they are designing a new body for the 5 series. So Lexus or Mercedes is the only good options. I'd go with lexus, knowing its reliability compared to e-class sedans which my neighbor has to always take into the shop.
06-01-09, 08:28 AM
#20
Andy
06-01-09, 10:12 AM
#22
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Also you can't bunch All Lexus owners together then get mad saying BMW/Benzs are bunched together for poor reliability.
Every Lexus since 1989 has had REAL WOOD and NOT plastic wood grain. That would be Acura.
06-01-09, 10:13 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
06-01-09, 10:25 AM
#24
Someone said Mercedes includes free maintenance... This is not true but used to be I believe about 4 years ago or so.
None of these cars will wow anyone unfortunately. The GS is the quickest and can be surprisingly quick to none the wiser. It will pull a 14.0 quarter and sits in the mid 5s for 0 to 60.
I would not get the BMW because of iDrive. I would get the GS because of the amazing touch screen. The Mercedes has a junk navi system as well unless you go with an '09 which will cost quite a bit more.
None of these cars will wow anyone unfortunately. The GS is the quickest and can be surprisingly quick to none the wiser. It will pull a 14.0 quarter and sits in the mid 5s for 0 to 60.
I would not get the BMW because of iDrive. I would get the GS because of the amazing touch screen. The Mercedes has a junk navi system as well unless you go with an '09 which will cost quite a bit more.
The 535 has about the same performance on paper in straight line acceleration stock as a GS350.
The MB does have a junky navigation system...
There's too many BMW's on the road, and it seems like they are designing a new body for the 5 series. So Lexus or Mercedes is the only good options. I'd go with lexus, knowing its reliability compared to e-class sedans which my neighbor has to always take into the shop.
06-01-09, 10:34 AM
#25
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Again, its possible and Lexus does make the occasional bad car. Historically speaking the numbers and the owners show by far Lexus is the more reliable brand. They should be, their reputation is on reliablity and quality. Lexus is either #1, 2 or 3 in every major survey since 1989.
There is nothing to "justify". There are enough prior/current German car owners in here that resemble the numbers and not the rare case of a reverse case scenerio.
The brands have different selling points. Reliablity has NEVER been a German selling point.
06-01-09, 11:27 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Ahhh, but if you look at the numbers in those long term reliability studies, how much more relaible are Lexus really. Lexus being number 1 have, if I remember right, an average of 120 problem for every 100 cars and BMW have 164 problem for every 100 cars. Those numbers look pretty close to me. My point is, the auto industry as a whole have making steady improvment in reliability. There is no long a big gap between # 1 and average. To say Lexus is much more relaibile than Germans is simply not true anymore.
06-01-09, 12:13 PM
#27
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Ahhh, but if you look at the numbers in those long term reliability studies, how much more relaible are Lexus really. Lexus being number 1 have, if I remember right, an average of 120 problem for every 100 cars and BMW have 164 problem for every 100 cars. Those numbers look pretty close to me. My point is, the auto industry as a whole have making steady improvment in reliability. There is no long a big gap between # 1 and average. To say Lexus is much more relaibile than Germans is simply not true anymore.
That said the OP said he plans to keep the car 10 years. The German car WILL cost more to maintain over 10 years than the Lexus. If he wants the German car, knowing an independent mechanic will help.
he also has to look at previous maintenance records and how the previous owner kept the car b/c a poorly maintanined Lexus could cause a headache.
06-01-09, 01:28 PM
#28
Maybe people buy BMW/Benz for other merits. No one said they were bad. The stats and the owner feedback matches. They have gotten better but no match for Lexus.
Also you can't bunch All Lexus owners together then get mad saying BMW/Benzs are bunched together for poor reliability.
Every Lexus since 1989 has had REAL WOOD and NOT plastic wood grain. That would be Acura.
Also you can't bunch All Lexus owners together then get mad saying BMW/Benzs are bunched together for poor reliability.
Every Lexus since 1989 has had REAL WOOD and NOT plastic wood grain. That would be Acura.
06-01-09, 02:06 PM
#29
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Not everyone wants a "sporty" feel to a car. I think the GS actually is too sporty for city driving...the suspension is pretty hard for a Lexus and the steering wheel needs to be held with a death grip while going over bad roads unless you want to go in random directions. I constantly have to slow to a crawl when I see potholes or a when the road suddenly has a elevation difference in order to avoid losing a kidney. On the highway none of this occurs, but I rarely ever go on a highway around here...
The ES is way too much like a boat for me, so that was never an option.
As for a 5 series interior, I find it overly sparse and ancient. IMO the GS has the best one with the touch screen controls even for the base GS.
The ES is way too much like a boat for me, so that was never an option.
As for a 5 series interior, I find it overly sparse and ancient. IMO the GS has the best one with the touch screen controls even for the base GS.
06-01-09, 02:14 PM
#30
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The wood is coated with a sealant that is made of plastic, it looks cheap and overdone. There is too much wood, IMO. I'm just saying, the interior in the Lexus is lacking considerably when compared to the 5 series. For the most part it handles like an old man's car, very boring. The 5 series is a totally different driving experience. If you want anything sporty, I would not consider the GS. The only thing that makes the GS compete is the fact that it's much cheaper than the 5 series.
You can have your opinion about the GS and 5. Every single review has said the GS strong point is its interior, many regard it as best in class. The 5 has gotten dismal marks for its interior. I actually like the look of both but prefer the more driver oriented cockpit than the BMW. Odd that the sportier car has a more living room dashboard.
So not sure why you are going 100% against what the experts have said. Oh want to know a fact. One main reason BMWs went with the flat dashboards instead of the old angled drivers oriented ones in the past was to cut costs. Its easier to swap sides with the newer dashes for LHD and RHD markets.
You can go on and on about how the GS isn't sporty etc but if you read what the OP said, that is NOT on his list of requirements. I suggest re-reading the first post.
Do you track your car? Do you drive hard 100% of the time? Do you drive a manual? I am unsure why people continue to shout "sport wins everytime" if their driving habits are sedate and more Town and country mini-van than GT3.