EXP_Cougar

http://autos.yahoo.com/2010_lexus_gs-reviews_user/

"For example, the best Toyota Motor Company model in our reliability survey is the Lexus SC—its predicted reliability score is the second highest out of over 300 vehicles, but the worst is the Lexus GS (AWD), which scores in the bottom 10 percent, and receives a much worse than average rating, and is not recommended in our testing. While it is true that Lexus models tend to be reliable and test well, this is not the case for all Lexus vehicles."

Does anyone have the actual data points on this? I find it hard to believe that they would put the GS in the bottom 10% for reliability... despite rattles and brake squeals.

FisforFast

Most likely because rattles and brake squeals typically occur in cars $30-40,000 cheaper.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Its an AWD GS, the RWD GS has a better rating. As far as I remember, it has always been like that.

EXP_Cougar

Yes, that's another thing that seeems to make no sense to me at all. Perhaps it's because there were more AWD sold than RWD, but I'm not aware of any 'serious' issues that would qualify any GS for a bottom 10% ranking.

LIMS407

man GS never get any love from car mags...

ivanz

It's total BS. According to them, the stereo system is completely unreliable on the AWD but perfect in the RWD...even though it is the same one. Same with the brakes and a few other things.
I actually posted this on their blog as a comment in a really polite way, yet they didn't approve the post. Go figure
Btw, according to them, only the GS 300 and 450h exist...from 2007 on.

lucasb7

I think they have some spotty data on the GS since we don't see any more bad reliability reports on the AWD from owners. They may be talking about the vibrations some owners report. The 450h was rated the most reliable in the class last year.

arnieosp

iTrader: (1)

I used to subscibed the Consumer Reports and remember when they quit reccomending the AWD about 3 years ago. The problem with CR is that they do not re-test thing often enough and just re-print old test results over and over, year after year. They do it not only with cars, but with pretty much everything. That's why I don't read them anymore.

However, Lexus today is not what Lexus used to be. It is true.

I8ABMR

I am not surprised with the dash rattles, brake noise,etc

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

The worst report in Consumer Reports is for the Lexus GS (AWD), which scores in the bottom 10 percent, and receives a much worse than average rating, and is not recommended to be read. While it is true that Consumer Reports tend to be reliable and test well, this is not the case for all Consumer Reports reports.

The G Man

The vibration problem occurs when owners lowers their GS AWD, once the car is Mod, it should be counted in any reliability survey.
CR have been rating the GS350 AWD much below average for 3 years now and with no facts to back it up. The sad part is, they continue to print this garbage even when many readers have pointed out their mistake to them. To compound CR's stupidity, they repeatedly point out reason for the different rating between the GS AWD and RWD as components that both model shares.

bagwell

the ONLY place CR builds it reliability ratings is from people reporting issues that have purchased the car brand new - it has nothing to do with how CR tests a car.

sorry if you don't like the results.

The G Man

I am sorry but isnt it CR's reponsiblity to make those survey and sample size as accurate as possible? That reponsibility should not be on the readers who do the survey.

bagwell

yep, you're right let the manufacturers report it....



2.2. How many samples do you have of each model?
While we do not publish information on individual sample sizes for specific models, we require a minimum of around 100 cars to publish reliability information for a model in a given model year. Our sample sizes tend to track quite closely with market sales. Individual sample sizes vary from year to year and range from a hundred to several thousand for the more popular models. A typical model has about 200 to 400 samples for each model year and engine variant.

Since we've opened the survey to subscribers of ConsumerReports.org, we have seen a substantial increase in survey responses in the past few years, so individual sample sizes have generally been on the rise, as well. This has given us sufficient sample sizes on a number of low-volume models.

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2.3. What effect does having a larger sample size for some vehicles compared with others have on the validity of the reliability data?
Given an appropriate sample, the more data you have, the more statistical confidence you have in your information. A larger sample will always give more accurate information than a smaller sample (assuming, of course, that the data are valid and collected from an appropriate source).

While we require a minimum of about 100 cars to publish reliability information, most models have larger samples than that, some being as large as several thousand. We present our data primarily to allow subscribers to compare the detailed reliability histories and overall reliability for different models. While models whose scores are based on more cars are reported with greater accuracy than those based on smaller sample sizes, the way we calculate our scores has been devised to allow valid comparisons for all samples we publish, regardless of the particular sample sizes of individual models.

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2.4. Where does the minimum sample size of 100 come from?
Our statisticians have determined that a minimum sample of 100 is sufficient to allow us to report statistically-meaningful differences among models. With larger sample sizes, we could detect even finer differences among models. However, using a higher threshold for minimum sample size, we would have insufficient data for most lower-volume models, as well as new models introduced late in the model year. With smaller sample sizes, we would be more limited in our ability to detect differences among models, although we would then have sufficient data for more models.

The minimum sample size of 100 cars allows a good balance for us to provide accurate information on model differences, while still covering a majority of models on the market.

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2.5. Why is there no reliability information for some models?
Consumer Reports sets a minimum sample size of about 100 cars; this size sample allows us to ensure that we have sound feedback from our subscribers to properly gauge the reliability of a model. We won't offer reliability information on those models for which we do not have a sufficient amount of data to draw a solid conclusion.

Our sample size generally tracks well with consumer market sales but may not correlate well with models that have high fleet sales. However, if a new model is introduced to the market at a time of year that does not coincide with our survey period, we might not get sufficient samples on that new model.

The G Man

So what you are saying is that some sample size are only a 100 survey for a certain make and cars like Toyota and Lexus have probably surveys in the tens of thousands. That doesnt sound too accurate to me.