GS - 3rd Gen (2006-2011) Discussion about the 2006+ model GS300, GS350, GS430, GS450H and GS460

I had spark plugs replaced, fuel economy went down???

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Old 12-25-09, 03:35 PM
  #16  
ivanz
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Regardless, mine does 18 L/100km in city when it is rated at 10.9. It does around 16 L/100km in the summer. There is something wrong with the car, but they refuse to fix it.
He may have the same issue which was triggered by changing spark plugs.
The V8 GS 460 is rated 12.4 in the city, the GS 300 should be less than the 350.
Old 12-25-09, 04:05 PM
  #17  
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Nothing wrong with the car. All the people with the GS i know do 18-20L/100km. Has to do with the fuel I guess.
Old 12-25-09, 05:08 PM
  #18  
ivanz
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Well according to the mileage threads, most people in the US get close to the rated mpg.
The OP is getting 17 mpg and I'm getting 13 mpg (for those too lazy to calculate it). No way are either of those normal IMO when the rated mpg is 26 mpg city...
Old 12-25-09, 05:32 PM
  #19  
I8ABMR
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Originally Posted by I8ABMR
As if we really needed another reason to hate winter.

Those of you living in northern climes have already started to notice the seasonal decline in fuel economy, even with careful attention to sagging tire pressure (probably the best known effect of the mercury's slide).

Yet, despite diligent all-around maintenance and continued careful driving, cold weather fuel consumption can be dramatically worse than in warm temperatures.

How much worse?

Have a gander at these calculations for a Honda Civic hybrid at 60 MPH in varying ambient temperatures:

MPH-----AMBIENT-TEMP-----MPG (US)

60------------95----------52.98
60------------85----------52.62
60------------75----------51.16
60------------65----------49.12
60------------55----------47.22
60------------45----------44.67
60------------35----------43.05
60------------25----------41.54
60------------15----------39.41
60------------05----------38.09

Look at the extremes: the coldest MPG is 28% lower than the warmest.

My own experience supports this: 12.5% worse mileage during the colder half of the year (Oct 15 to Apr 15) than for the warmest half (Apr 15 - Oct 15), on average 2002-2004 in my 1989 Accord. Comparing just the warmest months (Jun-Aug) to the coldest (Dec-Feb), the difference is even more apparent - 21.2% worse.

Why so bad? Off the top of my head, I could think of a couple of reasons to explain it, but together they didn't seem significant enough to account for the magnitude of the change. With this mystery to solve, I hit Google. And here's what I learned...

9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites

1. More idling

This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.

Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).

2. Low tire pressure

Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).

3. Increased rolling resistance

Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).

4. Crappy road conditions

It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)

5. Lower average engine temperature

In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.

A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).

Also related...

6. Higher average lubricant viscosity

Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.

Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.

7. Weaker gasoline

Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)

8. Higher electrical loads

In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:

- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)

9. More aerodynamic drag

No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).

A vehicles aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% .


Sorry to get so technical but this is whats really going on most likely

the reasons are listed above. Stop guessing. Regardless of the reason what you are seeing is normal for this time of the year. "bad winter gas" is a joke guys. Use what you learned in basic physics
Old 12-25-09, 06:47 PM
  #20  
ivanz
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How do you explain summer usage at 16L/100km? How come my Outlander, which is rated to use more uses way less than the GS? Hardly any of the stuff you keep repeating above. The Outlander, which uses regular fuel, compared to Shell V-power for the Lexus, should be way more winterized than premium fuel.
It is *not* normal. If I was doing burnouts and drag racing then it might be, but not for a daily driver. Plus, the difference between average summer and winter temperatures here is less than 15*C, so that isn't an issue either.
Old 12-25-09, 09:06 PM
  #21  
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guys my GS300 gets me 18 mpg in my daily 7 mile route to work and back in city traffic up and down a large hill in the middle.
Old 12-27-09, 08:58 PM
  #22  
I8ABMR
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I am getting about 22-23 mpg in what we call winter here. Funny thing is I get about the same in the summer when the AC is perpetually on
Old 06-05-19, 03:00 PM
  #23  
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Unhappy Same problem, slightly different details.

Hi everyone,

Today, I had my spark plugs replaced at a Toyota dealership. Of course, everything got reset so I lost my driver's-seat position settings and couldn't reset, and my automatic windows wouldn't work either. I took the car back and they fixed both. Of course, the AVG MPG reset too. It was at zero when I left the dealership.

Usually, it resets after refill and within about 1 to 5 miles of driving, max, and it has always shown the average MPG as being anywhere from 21 MPG to 28 (except in really cold winter weather where it can drop down to 19). But today, it hit 16 MPG and stayed there. The car also used 1/4 tank of gas to drive about 20 miles.

Since my tank holds about 16 gallons, if I'm doing the math correctly, that would be 4 gallons to go 20 miles?????

That means about 5 MPG?????

I called the dealership and they said that I need to reset both the info by filling my tank, and the trip meter. I did reset the trip meter, but of course, that made absolutely no difference. I have to wait until I use some gas before refilling to reset the info as it's 3/4 full and I don't think that will reset it yet.

I tried pressing the INFO button and holding it for 25 seconds, but it didn't reset. Is there some other way?

Also, could this drop in MPG indicate that something is wrong? The dealership insists that nothing is wrong but I really don't feel good about this.

Thanks in advance for any input. Very nervous about this.
Old 10-12-21, 07:11 AM
  #24  
jocarl84
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I am curious if you are able to resolve this mpg dip. My car is doing the same. Low mpg after a sparkplug change.
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Old 10-12-21, 07:19 AM
  #25  
joannakat
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Originally Posted by jocarl84
I am curious if you are able to resolve this mpg dip. My car is doing the same. Low mpg after a sparkplug change.
It took quite a decent amount of driving and a couple of fill-ups, but yes. But also, not completely. It never went back up to where it was before replacing them.

I have since moved over to a 2011 RX350. It's like a totally different car. My average mileage is above 22MPG, and the ride is extremely smooth.

Hope yours resolves soon.
Old 10-12-21, 07:26 AM
  #26  
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Thanks Joanna! Sweet ride indeed. All the best!
Old 10-12-21, 08:17 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by jocarl84
I am curious if you are able to resolve this mpg dip. My car is doing the same. Low mpg after a sparkplug change.
You may have counterfeit plugs.
The cheap stuff on amazon/ebay etc is mostly fake, especially the slightly more expensive denso/etc Lexus uses. You do get what you pay for, easier for peace of mind to go to rockauto or similar trusted place to order, they are prolific, seriously more than half of what I looked at online was obvious fakes, let alone good ones..

edit: GS460: plugs + cleaning throttlebody, new spark plug tube seals, filter etc gave an MPG boost.. the old plugs were original (yellow triangles on the end caps) and never changed at 100k+ miles.
You should only lose MPG if they pull the battery/reset the ECU or your plugs are bad.

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