daudi81

I just got my 2006 GS430 a couple weeks ago, after hours and days of test driving pretty muh everything out there in the class (RL, Infiniti M, 5 series (and 3), A6 (and 4), CTS, Jaguar, even lexus's own IS350. Most were new, some were 08 - the GS430 is a 2006 with 34k miles.

Although there were a few close onse, the GS beat pretty much everything out there in every aspect. Some cars were a little more "fun" to drive (IS350 and 3 series, maybe 5 series), but 99% of the time I wouldn't be able to drive in a style that would take advantage of their perks over the GS. And the negatives of those cars FAR outweighed the fact they might be slightly faster or handle slightly better.

I go online, and buy a few car review magazines and look at reviews and I am shocked at what I find. Most reviews of the GS are pretty mediocre, even when they are pitted against the very same cars I test drove extensively. "This can't be right" I'm thinking.

Then I dive into the reasons and I'm even more shocked. All these reviews care about are things 99% of American drivers don't notice, and will never have the chance, nor the skill to put to the test. They ranked the 5 series above the GS because it has like .02g of more grip and .01 seconds faster 0-60 and .5 seconds faster on some track in California - to say nothing of their FOOGLY interior, cheap plastics, uncomfortable seats, and horrible reliability ratings (things I actually care about). I guess .02g of grip is a huge deal when I run to my parents house for dinner, or go get a gallon of milk for the wife at 6pm. *sigh*

And that's how most of these reviews are. They take it on a track and test all the numbers and pit them up against eachother. Who in the world takes their $50k+ luxury sedan to the track? I want a review that takes refinement, smoothness, quality of materials, reliability, mpg, styling (exterior and interior), visibility, if you can hear your wife talking to you at 80mph on the highway. Things most people care about (or should care about). Not Mario Andretti.

My 5hp lawnmower engine equpped go-cart in my garage has better handling than the 5series BMW, does that mean they will rate it higher?

I'm glad I didn't go out and blindly buy a car off these reviews, or I'd be a seriously unhappy car-owner.

Mesca

iTrader: (28)

Yup, after going to the L.A. Auto Show, I realize the interior of the GS is unmatched in it's class. They all had a cheap plastic feel. GS could just be our little secret!

*Batman*

Yes. I drove only BMWs since the age of 21. Until last year. If you exclude the M models, BMWs are no longer the ultimate driving machine.

LexFather

That is b/c reviews today seemingly miss the plot. They think everyone drives their cars like Ferrari Enzo's. The GS did well in a couple reviews, won a Euro award for design but we also have to remember the competition in this segment is fierce.

Whereas the E-class, 5 series, GS were head and shoulders the best in class in the past, this generation got a much better crowd, Volvo S80, Acura RL/Honda Legend, Infiniti M35/45/Nissan Fuga, Cadillac CTS/STS, Jaguar XF (The S-type stunk), etc etc

I have never claimed any Lexus of mine to be perfect but I truly enjoy my 3GS ownership and will be happy to move into a 4GSh or 4GS-F.

I enjoy its quiet. I enjoy the high MPG. I enjoy how the exterior/interior have aged very gracefully and it still looks relevant 5 years later. I enjoy the features, the easy to use interface etc.

As for what we smoke, we have "cush, killa, sticky ickey, drough, purple haze, cheeba" and a slew of other great products

daudi81

Believe me I understand the competition is fierce. I spent days driving each and every one of those vehicles you listed (except the volvo). Each car obviously had its pluses and minuses. The GS was just the most well rounded and didn't severely lack in anything, unlike most of the cars that were good in a few areas, but horrible in others.

It just surprises me that these reviews put so much weight into aspects a NASCAR driver would appreciate, but not 99% of Americans (we do still have speed limit laws don't we?). How many people care about this stuff, other than professional drivers? And how many people could even push these cars to their limits to tell a sizeable difference? Not very many.

I always thought reliability was a HUGE factor in buying a car, and I thought that most felt the same way. Yet most reviews don't even take into account a company's reliability factor when reviewing a car. BMW? Mercedes? Nice cars if you want them to spend 30% of their life in a shop. "But they have .00001g more grip and are .0123 seconds faster on the hooblyboobly track in China." Right.

Modeler

I agree with everyone's comments.

One source that does take other things into account is Consumer Reports. They do consider the reliability, visibility, ergonomics and comfort, a lot more than car magazines. Unfortunately, with CR being so focused on the low and middle market -- $15,000 to $30,000 segment-- they frequently miss the boat when evaluating luxury cars like GS.

Just to add to the gripes -- it pisses me off to no end when CR or other publications bash my GS450h for low mileage. What these idiots completely misunderstand is that the h does get a great mileage, but only when compared to its peer group, which is NOT NOT NOT other hybrids. The h's peer group is V8 luxury sedans like the GS 460 or BMW 550i or Mercedes E550 in Infiniti M45. Compared to these guys my 24 mpg long-term mileage is fantastic relative to sub-20 peer mileage. And the power is better than many of them.

bs0dxi

I have had these exact thoughts regarding online reviews of our beloved 3GS. I would certainly agree that the 3GS is probably the most well-rounded sedan in the competitive mid-size sports luxury sedan, as you said. I wonder if there is a continued bias to always have one of the euro cars on top. Literally any review site will have a Benz or a BMW on top because of its "handling" and the GS is degraded because it is not a true "performance car."

It comes as no suprise then that the U.S. News & World report released their ranking, rather predictably, for the "luxury large cars" category:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...ry-Large-Cars/

1. 2010 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
2. 2010 Infiniti M
3. 2010 Acura RL
3. 2010 Lexus GS Hybrid (im not sure why they ranked it 3 instead of 4, maybe an error, but seriously, the RL is not as quick as the GS...however its cheaper)
5. 2010 Audi A6
5. 2010 Jaguar XF
7. 2010 BMW 5-Series
7. 2010 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Coupe
9. 2010 Lexus GS 350/460 (what the f***, we're in the same rank as volvo? come on!)
9. 2010 Volvo S80
11. 2010 Cadillac DTS

and so on..

jre002

There is a strict BMW bias in most automobile publications. I also drove every car you mentioned. Out of all the cars, the GS and the E-Class were the only ones that "felt" right. I chose the GS over the E-Class because I knew they were coming out with a new style in a little over a year and I didn't want to be driving an outdated body style so quickly. Now however, when I see an E-Class parked next to my Lex I know I made the right choice. It just looks more substantial to me. My buddy has the E-Class and when I get in it, I feel a little bit cramped. Plus, the touch screen is so much better than any other method of input. I hope Lexus does not change that in the next gen.

But to discuss the topic of the thread, I agree with the OP. I don't understand why luxury cars are ranked based on how they perform at 10/10ths driving. I'm not looking to win a race, I want to get around in extreme comfort with all the amenities and the ability to pass easily. I want to be able to handle sweeping turns relatively well with great brakes. I also want a reliable car without exhorbitant maintenance costs. If you look at most 5er BMWs, they have Garmin GPS stuck to the dash board. Why? B/c they charge so much for the navi option that most people don't get it. I told the BMW salesman that it was ridiculous and he said "how about if I hardwire a Garmin into the BMW for free". Then he tried to condescend me and said most people who drive BMWs buy them for the driving experience and don't care about navi. I left a few minutes later.

It's all personal preference, but I don't get the way they rank our cars and only use my own judgement.

ivanz

CR rated the GS AWD at the bottom of its class for reliability. The regular GS mid pack/a bit above average, and the GS 450h near the top. The "issues" the AWD had were with things like audio system, and stuff that is shared 100% between all GSs (non drive train).

MelYW

Obviously this reply is biased, but I felt the same way when making my choice. 5 Series is a beautiful car from the outside. Getting into it is when the disappointment sets in. If you like an austere interior then BMW will do the trick.

The BMW sales person also had me tear around some back roads and do some incredibly hard stops. He kept on saying..."see how you can feel the road?" My comment back was "yes, but who drives like that?"

The GS is a very competent and classy sports sedan. The engine is stellar...I am constantly amazed with its strength and smoothness.

Aside from the cold weather rattles (which I have heard BMW having similar issues), the car has been defect free...and I place a huge premium on staying out of the shop so I can actually enjoy the vehicle.

Toe to toe in terms of features, the GS came out to be a better deal. The only way I could get BMW even close to the GS price was to spec in the vinyl seats...and even then it was more expensive.

With all the recalls happening, I hope Toyota can regain its legendary quality leader status.

Yang1815

iTrader: (1)

That's some good stuff they're smoking.

How many people think that the 5 series is better than the 3 series and yet the 3 series wins the 10 Best every year.

dunnojack

what? even Audi? NO WAY? really?

everyone said they have a million dollar interior, unmatched by anyone

daudi81

Ahh, I'm so relieved to see you all feel the same way. I thought I was the only one that thought like this. All my friends were telling me to get the BMW because it performs better (which I guess on the track it does, marginally?). But after driving several (even brand new ones), I was left thinking, this is a$50k+ car? Are you kidding me? What am I not seeing that everyone else is?

And like the previous guy said above, the only other one I would consider was the E class, but I knew their reliability wasn't on par with Lexus.

Why are these car magazines so set on track performance? Yea, its cool to have - but not at the top of my list, or anyone else I know for that matter.

It's like trying to buy a house and the real estate agent keeps on commenting on the cool tree in the front. While I want to look at the size, quality of materials and craftmanship, floor material, master suite, kitchen, location, etc - the things that really matter on a day-to-day basis. Who cares about the tree, really?

Rattletale

yeah the GS always seems to get shafted, I think a lot of it is due to the OEM run flats. They do everything wrong, ride poorly, are noisy, and have lousy grip. Seriously, I have not had a flat tire in 20 years! Run Flats are totally irrelevant. I think a lot of the bad reviews were on the original GS 300, just not enough ***** for this segment. I kind of get that, any sedan that is less sport than luxury is going to take a bashing in the buff books.

But I really don't get it when they bash the styling. C/D goes "It looks... ok" WTF?? This in a review with the heinously ugly 5 and M? And the boring RL? And the E is ok but hardly ground breaking. I hate the editors opinions on the GS styling, they are just wrong wrong wrong. It's arguably the best looking mid-luxury sedan out there. Only the A6 is comparable.

Dunno, I guess Lexus doesn't send as big a check as BMW or Benz.

daudi81

Infinit M was #2? Who are these people? That car was/is horrible - especially when pitted against something like the GS. At least they had the sense to put the BMW on the bottom