jjbenzo

What a pooch! I'm driving an IS250 loaner at the moment and I can't stand how slow it is. GS with anything less than the power they produce now is not acceptable in the sport sedan class.

On a side note, I would be in line for a 420-450 hp GS460 V8 replacement.

TRDFantasy

What a silly thing to say .

All Toyota models get tested in extreme temperatures. Toyota often runs engineering mules of upcoming models. For all you know, Toyota by now could have been running 4GS prototypes with a modified 3GS body for example. Toyota has several private test tracks and test areas around the world, which allows them to test in complete secrecy. They also test in many remote locations.

With that said, the 3GS was not tested as thoroughly as it should have been. Toyota has been doing more real-world testing for all new models.

We barely saw any spy shots of the 4LS before it debuted, and that's not a rattlebox is it now?

Spy photographers can't be everywhere at once, all the time. Inevitably some models undergoing real-world testing will never be caught by spy photographers.

(Cj)

Yeah in foreign markets smaller engines are needed, and Lexus already addresses that by continuing to sell GS300s in a lot of Asian markets.

A GS250 would probably be a welcome addition as well as a 2.5L hybrid (GS300h), in Europe and some Asain countries.

I don't really know what Lexus will do as far as the V8 and hybrid. They have a lot of options. 1) They could bump the V8 up to LS power levels and position it below a more powerful 400+hp performance hybrid model, or 2) they could reposition the hybrid below the V8 (in price and performance) and then up the V8 to 400+hp (GS500).

The 1st plan could work. Remember that the A6 and the E class still only have around 380hp anyway. The GS doesn't need to match Infiniti's numbers because Lexus will likely also offer a 500+hp GS-F something Infiniti can't even touch at the moment. Also a 400+hp hybrid model can be offered to compete more directly with the 550i in price and performance.

The 2nd plan could also work. Lexus has a 420hp 5.0L engine in the IS-F that they can stick in the V8 GS, so that it can go head to head with the M56 and 550i. The hybrid model can be repurposed and repositioned to focus on efficiency with a system similar to the RXh's. At that point then we'd have a $45K GS350, $50K GS400h/450h, and $55+K GS500.

Either way the GS would be way more competitive than it currently is. Also I'm not against hybrids and I understand Lexus's plan for them (in Europe), but they still have a way to go before they can comfortably replace regular cars. But I like what Mercedes has done with the S400 mild hybrid. Toyota could implement a mild hybrid drivetrain on all of their models today if they wanted to with little compromise (other than price).

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

I think the new GS will become more like a CLS competitor? Don't you all think?

*Batman*

No I think it is highly unlikely. Lexus has the same issue Jag has which is a lot of people buy the middle sized model as a family saloon. So you can't go for a model with cramped rear quarters and 4 seats. You might argue in the US the ES350 fills the family sedan space. However that's not available in Asia, Japan or Europe. Since Japan is the biggest market for the GS, I don't think they would leave themselves with a 5 passenger middle-sized sedan in Japan.

I draw the analogy to Jag, because the XF prototype was more CLS like, but the production model was suited for 5 passengers and had a more passenger friendly roofline than the prototype.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that will be a very terrible idea. they haven't even secured the sedan position, and they try to go after the cls? they need something solid to go against 5 and e before they can even think about a 4-door coupe.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I think the 3GS already has the 4-door coupe theme.

grondie

[QUOTE=(Cj);5429358]I think NO on all counts:

1) Lexus has the ES so a cheap GS250/300h wouldn't make sense and would overlap with the ES (which itself is going to be redesigned soon likely with a V6 hybrid model).

(Love your Avatar!)

I think we are going to see a GS250 as a base model, it has been reported in a couple of mags. I think this has to do with the new federal cafe standards more than anything though.

Lexzam

Aston Martin will make a baby Aston based on Toyota iQ. Why? Europe will force car manufacturers to lower emission averages. Failure to comply will lead to financial penalties. Maybe limiting LFA production to 500 is also related, as it will increase Toyota corporate average emissions? GS250 or GS250h may be offered for same reasons.

That's all fine, as long as Lexus does not kill the option for customers to choose much more powerful versions as well.

(Cj)

Only one I've seen perpetuating the GS250 rumor is MotorTrend and when it comes to new car speculations they're nearly always wrong.

I've said this a million times, but CAFE standards shouldn't have any bearing on what Lexus will do with the GS. The GS model itself is a rather low selling model, and CAFE numbers are based on volume, not on model. Also Lexus's CAFE numbers are going to be averaged with Toyota's. Toyota sells like 10x as many cars as Lexus so it's going to be that side of the business that's going to see the most change and the most affects of the CAFE standards.

Toyota is already making moves in that direction with the announcement of a plug-in Prius and an entire Prius sub-brand. In the not too distant future, the Prius subbrand of 50+mpg cars will probably be outselling the entire Lexus brand and bring Toyota's CAFE averages far above the 35mpg requirement.

Anyway I say all that to say that future CAFE requirements likely won't affect the next gen GS. Look at the competition. All have gotten more powerful, bigger and heavier. Expect to see the same from Lexus...

What does the Aston Martin iQ have to do with the 4GS?

Anyway, yes in Europe there are emissions restrictions and they may see a low power GS hybrid there, but it probably won't surface in the US (just like how we don't have the BMW 520i or the 6 cylinder S Class here).

dunnojack

these cafe standards are ridiculous, forcing car makers to simply circumvent them by introducing unwanted low demand low power cars.

hell, just put a 4 cylinder engine in every vehicle.

4 cylinder LX250 FTW !!!! mas horsepowah !

rominl

iTrader: (4)

more like a failure in making a good size sedan. my 2 cents though

*Batman*

They should make the engine a dealer fitted option and say it comes standard with push power. That way they would be the most fuel efficient company in the Cafe

slk_dds

Usually I request for an IS350 or an AWD RX whenever I bring my toy in for service, b/c I cannot stand FWD vehicles. But whenever I get an IS250 instead, it drives me nuts... b/c it is freaking SLOWWW...

YEAH RIGHT... keep saying that to youself...

(Initially I had bought an 06 GS300 in June, then traded in for an 07 GS350 by November)...

dunnojack

yo! where's the damn preview? those corporate liars.