Do you think your GS is a Lexus or a Toyota?
05-22-10, 05:46 PM
#61
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lol....
Another thing I've said over and over back in 1998 the 2GS really came out of nowhere and elevated Lexus in this segment. Lexus really put in their best work to ensure the 2GS didn't falter like the 1GS. There REALLY were only 3 credible vehicles back then, the E-class, 5 series, GS.
Another thing I've said over and over back in 1998 the 2GS really came out of nowhere and elevated Lexus in this segment. Lexus really put in their best work to ensure the 2GS didn't falter like the 1GS. There REALLY were only 3 credible vehicles back then, the E-class, 5 series, GS.
Never drove one, see lots of them running around.
05-22-10, 07:06 PM
#62
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The 2GS came with Euro dimensions, e-shift,optitron gauges, GPS, auto leveling headlights, 17" wheels, amazing styling (that is still copied to this day) in RWD with 2 engines that with BMW led the class. Then the price of the V-8 was the same as the old 1GS I-6.
More than anything the GS 400 really put Lexus on the map with performance. For a time it was the fastest automatic sedan in the world. Reviews said it drove like the SC but was a sedan. It won Car of the Year and was a 10 best winner 4 times and won other countless awards.
I always say what the GS did in 1997/1998 will likely NEVER be duplicated. No one expected the Japanese to make such a sedan. Up until that point the BMW 528/540 was the main option, then the E-class. The GS brought sport, luxury and reliablity/quality.
It is an incredible car, I owned 2. One saved my life.
05-22-10, 08:46 PM
#64
Actually if it wasn't for the Dash Rattles, I would be satisfied with the GS350. The dealerships here are excellent. I don't mind a couple problems that can be fixed.
The only other thing that bugs me about the 3GS series, is that I owned a 2GS and I can tell the quality has slipped. The interior materials are not as nice. Lexus took a Step Down from the 2GS, this would be Obvious to someone that has owned both.
The only other thing that bugs me about the 3GS series, is that I owned a 2GS and I can tell the quality has slipped. The interior materials are not as nice. Lexus took a Step Down from the 2GS, this would be Obvious to someone that has owned both.
I would never have dreamed of owning a 2GS. The 3GS was the first Lexus which looked more stunning than it's European competition. Nobody is going to hang a pic of the 2GS on their wall, but the 3GS they would. So it is not a step down at all. They discovered beauty and not all of us want to wake every day to a butterface.
05-22-10, 09:30 PM
#65
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Well to this day I am a huge fan of my overgrown Corollas To me the styling was out of this world 12 years ago, I still remember seeing my first one. It has aged very gracefully and is still a used car very much in demand.
The 3GS I actually had to warm too in regards to styling and a lot of us think its has more in common with the 1GS. I agree that its aged better than the 2GS and looks rather luxurious.
Both were copied extensively by other brands, a sincere form of flattery.
Thanks to Encore its wonderful to see how the GS has evolved (the Germans are real good at this type of marketing/photography).
To me the styling was out of this world 12 years ago, I still remember seeing my first one. It has aged very gracefully and is still a used car very much in demand. The 3GS I actually had to warm too in regards to styling and a lot of us think its has more in common with the 1GS. I agree that its aged better than the 2GS and looks rather luxurious.
Both were copied extensively by other brands, a sincere form of flattery.
Thanks to Encore its wonderful to see how the GS has evolved (the Germans are real good at this type of marketing/photography).
05-23-10, 01:03 AM
#66
The 2GS looked like an overgrown Corolla in my opinion. Not a us spec corolla but a euro spec corolla which had round lights like the 2gs.
I would never have dreamed of owning a 2GS. The 3GS was the first Lexus which looked more stunning than it's European competition. Nobody is going to hang a pic of the 2GS on their wall, but the 3GS they would. So it is not a step down at all. They discovered beauty and not all of us want to wake every day to a butterface.
I would never have dreamed of owning a 2GS. The 3GS was the first Lexus which looked more stunning than it's European competition. Nobody is going to hang a pic of the 2GS on their wall, but the 3GS they would. So it is not a step down at all. They discovered beauty and not all of us want to wake every day to a butterface.
05-23-10, 08:20 AM
#67
Sorry i must disagree, I LOVE 2gs looks and body design. It was my dream car about 5-8 years ago. It had best in class leading engine's comfort and styling than any other brand IMO. The 3gs is redesigned to future car styling which is cool to but don't be bashing 2gs its one of the most sexiest car's looking out there. Still till this day when i see a clean 2gs I still drool over it.
05-25-10, 07:36 AM
#68
On this very forum we have all debated and concluded we have no idea why the GS 300 AWD is singled out. There hasn't been any uproar or hardly any thread from AWD owners saying their cars are unreliable. Surely they would be as vocal as you are. We simply cannot put our fingers on it.
Fully loaded GS 300 AWD owner here...
My car has no issues, no rattles, no transmission woes, and I enjoy it everytime I drive it. People still gawk at it with the Starfire Pearl paint which looks better than any other white pearl IMO. Interior wise, it feels luxurious to me and I've been in the BMW and Mercedes. They also have nice interiors, but there is really no point to arguing over which one is better. It's all subjective. For example, people rave about Audi interiors. I severly dislike Audi interiors and their steering wheels. I would buy a 4 door S5 that they have in Europe though. Freaking sweet.
As far as the "so-called" expert reviews. If it is not blatantly obvious that before they even drive the cars, BMW is declared the winner until proven otherwise then I don't know what to tell you. It is all based on perspective. They take luxury sport sedans and put them on a track and drive them like a Ferrari vs. Lambo test. Sure, it's nice to know how my GS would perform on a track compared to a 5 series, A6, E-Class, RL, or M. But are the magazines and reviewers being honest with themselves? Is this the true measure of what these cars will be used for? 10/10ths driving? They probably won't even see 5/10ths driving.
Let me admit that when I was young I used to drive CRAZY. As I got older, I became to judge my cars on how I use them in my non-crazy driving life. I drive on the highway a lot, so luxury, ride comfort, noise reduction, excellent stereo, passing power, and braking (not hot-lap braking, ABS function and accident avoidance) are important to me. My GS at least, does this all very well. I even took it to a beach party and drove it right up on the sand. While 5 or 10 cars/pick ups/SUVs got stuck requiring a tow and many more had to use planks to get free, my elitist snobby GS AWD just pulled right off.
Now is it going to out-corner a 5 series? No. Do I care? No. Am I going to beat this or that car in a race? Who cares, because I'm not racing anyone. People seriously interested in racing modify their cars to achieve their speed/hp goals anyways.
I really think that some people buy their cars for the wrong reason then blame the car for not being what they wanted. You know what it is and what it isn't before you buy it. I don't understand complaining why your GS isn't a BMW or an M after you bought it.
I feel for those who have lemons causing them time/money/frustration, but to call any other car "perfect" is hyperbole. Every car and manufacturer has issues. Some people get unlucky. Some people buy used cars which were much more abused than they thought then blame the manufacturer. Having spent most of my teens and 20s modifying cars and hanging out at the shop, I can tell you that all cars have problems. Some more than others, but Lexus is about as reliable as you can get for the most part.
Last edited by jre002; 05-25-10 at 07:40 AM.
05-25-10, 09:04 AM
#69
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First of all the new RX is NOT based on any toyota (the old one was a toyota harrier). And Yes, your Acura TL (previous gen) was the Euro Accord.
I believe the GS is lexus exclusive. (the IS is based on the GS). The only "toyota cousins", as some would say it, lexus has are the GX (LC prado), LX, and ES.
The HS is NOT a prius. (have you seen the specs? ... just the mpg would give it away) Its powertrain would actually be closer to a camry hybrid.
Also, EVERYONE shares platforms/parts/engines. Just an example, The R8 V10, and a6 avant both get LAMBO sourced engines... (or you can say lambos get VW engines). Also almost every infinity is a nissan rebadge... Acura uses the same old honda engines, Escalade is a rebadged suburban, etc, etc. SOme people hide it better than others. I think lexus does a good job in differentiating their cars (LX, GX, ES) from the toyotas on which they are based on, and they dont just change the badge like GM.
As for substance behind the looks, I think lexus does it very well.. Just look at their reliability, refinement, technology, and customer satisfaction. It says it all.
I believe the GS is lexus exclusive. (the IS is based on the GS). The only "toyota cousins", as some would say it, lexus has are the GX (LC prado), LX, and ES.
The HS is NOT a prius. (have you seen the specs? ... just the mpg would give it away) Its powertrain would actually be closer to a camry hybrid.
Also, EVERYONE shares platforms/parts/engines. Just an example, The R8 V10, and a6 avant both get LAMBO sourced engines... (or you can say lambos get VW engines
). Also almost every infinity is a nissan rebadge... Acura uses the same old honda engines, Escalade is a rebadged suburban, etc, etc. SOme people hide it better than others. I think lexus does a good job in differentiating their cars (LX, GX, ES) from the toyotas on which they are based on, and they dont just change the badge like GM.As for substance behind the looks, I think lexus does it very well.. Just look at their reliability, refinement, technology, and customer satisfaction. It says it all.
The HS is a revised Toyota Avensis with Toyota Hybrid Technology from the Camry.
A lot of Lexus stuff available here that are not available as Toyotas (like the GS, even the LS)... but that does not detract from the actual quality of the product. If anything, it means Toyotas (without the Lexus branding) are a step above the rest of the mainstreams.
05-25-10, 09:16 AM
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This is all wrong. You are confusing rebadges with platform sharing. The ES is no Camry, there is sufficient differences between the two. They share no sheetmetal and the interiors are completely different.
The RX debuted YEARS before the Highlander. They were all based on Camry chassis. The RX CREATED the car based luxury car segment. Yes, CREATED it.
The LX/Landcruiser also have different sheetmetal, options and interiors. Just sit in the two, it is not a rebadge, it is platform sharing (which the Germans do as well).
In contrast the Acura TSX is a rebage of the Euro Accord. A simple grill swap (for the worse)
The GS and Crown share platforms. While the Crown is a lowly "Toyota" it is REVERED in Japan and one of the most popular luxury cars there with over 40 years of history. The GS is no Crown rebadge.
Also it doesn't matter if its a Toyota or not, much like the Hyundai Genesis, Nissan Fuga (our M37/56), Honda Legend (our RL) they are all built to standards of luxury cars. Thus their high asking price.
I pray you mean the current C-class b/c the last one was awful and yes I've driven it. The current one is better but no where has any review said the interior is better than the IS. Its average at best, solid but not class leading.
America is a huge market for the Germans and your assumption is off. If anything America only GETS the best and most expensive from Benz/BMW/Audi. Thus their "image" of superiority. We don't get the 1 series 3 door or 5 door, the A/B class hatches, the A1 Audis. Instead we get mostly big engines and cars full of options.
Platform sharing is Audi B8 platform shared with the VW CC.
Camry and ES are reskinnings/rebadges of each other. You could use and replace nearly everything on the inside and they would work. These are are still rebadges, even though the sheet metal is different and the interior is restyled.
The Acura TSX and Euro Accord are different models, but they are not "rebadges" because they do not exist here concurrently in the USA. If you had an Acura TSX and our American Accord was the same thing with a different grille, then yes, that is clearly a rebadge.
A rebadge is a Chevy Aveo and Pontiac G3.
05-25-10, 09:34 AM
#71
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Disagree about platform sharing/rebadges.
Platform sharing is Audi B8 platform shared with the VW CC.
Camry and ES are reskinnings/rebadges of each other. You could use and replace nearly everything on the inside and they would work. These are are still rebadges, even though the sheet metal is different and the interior is restyled.
The Acura TSX and Euro Accord are different models, but they are not "rebadges" because they do not exist here concurrently in the USA. If you had an Acura TSX and our American Accord was the same thing with a different grille, then yes, that is clearly a rebadge.
A rebadge is a Chevy Aveo and Pontiac G3.
Platform sharing is Audi B8 platform shared with the VW CC.
Camry and ES are reskinnings/rebadges of each other. You could use and replace nearly everything on the inside and they would work. These are are still rebadges, even though the sheet metal is different and the interior is restyled.
The Acura TSX and Euro Accord are different models, but they are not "rebadges" because they do not exist here concurrently in the USA. If you had an Acura TSX and our American Accord was the same thing with a different grille, then yes, that is clearly a rebadge.
A rebadge is a Chevy Aveo and Pontiac G3.
Just b/c its sold in a different market doesn't mean it is a different car. The ES and Camry share platforms but are very different inside and out. That is not a rebadge. A rebadge is simply taking the badge off one car and putting it on the other which is the case of the Euro Accord/Acura TSX. The USMD Accord/TL is not a rebadge, it is also platform sharing. The ES/Camry and TL/USDM Accord are similar in execution. The Acura TSX and hell CSX (Canada Civic rebadge) are rebadges. Big difference.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Acura_CSX.JPG
05-25-10, 09:38 AM
#72
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Sorry you are wrong in regards to the ES. How can you say something with a different interior/exterior is a rebadge (Camry/ES) ( and then something that has the same interior/exterior is not (Euro Accord/TSX)? Just b/c its sold in a different market doesn't mean it is a different car.
The ES and Camry share platforms but are very different inside and out. That is not a rebadge. A rebadge is simply taking the badge off one car and putting it on the other which is the case of the Euro Accord/Acura TSX. The USMD Accord/TL is not a rebadge, it is also platform sharing. The ES/Camry and TL/USDM Accord are similar in execution. The Acura TSX and hell CSX (Canada Civic rebadge) are rebadges. Big difference.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Acura_CSX.JPG
Just b/c its sold in a different market doesn't mean it is a different car. The ES and Camry share platforms but are very different inside and out. That is not a rebadge. A rebadge is simply taking the badge off one car and putting it on the other which is the case of the Euro Accord/Acura TSX. The USMD Accord/TL is not a rebadge, it is also platform sharing. The ES/Camry and TL/USDM Accord are similar in execution. The Acura TSX and hell CSX (Canada Civic rebadge) are rebadges. Big difference.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Acura_CSX.JPG
The fact of the matter is that I could probably take a set of Lexus ES body panels, bumpers and lights and take the interior and stick it into my Camry and it would be identical. The 2GR-FE is tuned slightly differently, and I would have to get some Lexus fluid dynamic engine mounts (I have rubber ones).
Of course, if that is not a rebadge to you, then it's not a rebadge. To everyone else in the Auto world, we consider it a rebadge.
05-25-10, 10:01 AM
#73
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Well then, we have different opinions on what is "very different". The Camry and ES350 can and does share just about every structural and drivetrain component.
The fact of the matter is that I could probably take a set of Lexus ES body panels, bumpers and lights and take the interior and stick it into my Camry and it would be identical. The 2GR-FE is tuned slightly differently, and I would have to get some Lexus fluid dynamic engine mounts (I have rubber ones).
Of course, if that is not a rebadge to you, then it's not a rebadge. To everyone else in the Auto world, we consider it a rebadge.
The fact of the matter is that I could probably take a set of Lexus ES body panels, bumpers and lights and take the interior and stick it into my Camry and it would be identical. The 2GR-FE is tuned slightly differently, and I would have to get some Lexus fluid dynamic engine mounts (I have rubber ones).
Of course, if that is not a rebadge to you, then it's not a rebadge. To everyone else in the Auto world, we consider it a rebadge.
The ES/Camry share PLATFORMS they are not REBADGES. I have shown evidence of what a rebadge it. It is simply taking your badge from one car and slapping it on the other with minimal changes (usually a grill swap). Platform sharing is using basic components but the vehicle is significantly different inside and out as well as with options. For example the Benz CLS and E class share platforms, they are significantly different inside and out just like the Camry/ES but also share engines and most basic engineering components (like the Passat, CC as you stated).
The only ES that could be considered a rebadge was the original ES 250 which was a rush job and only sold so Lexus wouldn't just have the LS on lots.
Clearly no one seems to mind though....
05-25-10, 10:39 AM
#75
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If Lexus is a rebadge, why in the world did you or everyone not buy the Toyota version instead? You made your choice, now deal with it. If you're not happy with it, sell it and get whatever you want. As simple as that. As far as people that complain about rattling, are you kidding me?? I'd take rattling any day comepared to transmission problems on nissian and infinity, power loss in Honda and Acura, electrical on Audi and BMW, and cracking dash board on Mercedes.