GS350Lexus

iTrader: (5)

Hello
I was browsing on google and stumbled up on this MB forum post

I actually laughed pretty hard, as lexus does keeps it used car value way better then Mercedes. Let me know what you guys think!

Here is the link to the thread http://www.mbworld.org/forums/e-clas...fer-sucks.html

DaSyce

iTrader: (3)

I can't explain it, but the GS is one of the few Lexus cars that don't hold its immediate residual value. The ES / RX / IS are great cars that really keep their value.

Take a look at leasing these cars, the ES/RX/IS typically hold 55% or higher for a residual value over the course of three years.

The GS only holds about 54% at best. Whereas the current E-class is at 56% over three years.

You have to also take into consideration that the GS is near the end of its life cycle.

*Batman*

The main reason is end of lifecycle. When the new GS comes out next year, all old GS models will take a hit of about 5k. Whereas there is no new Benz E class coming out during the next 3 years.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

NOOOOOOOO!

JL6speed

Well the Lexus will last longer than a Mercedes if you keep the car long enough lol.

Used to own a Mercedes. Ain't no fun taking it to the dealer to get fixed every month.

*Batman*

Yes if you buy the car and keep it for 10 years, the Lexus will be worth more at that time because it will still be very functional.

ekc

iTrader: (6)

I think the E-class was redesigned in 2009? So I think the 2007/08 models had already taken a hit.

The prices seemed comparable for the same year '07 models at this point (at least when you look at the cars available for sale standpoint). $23-25k range...
But since the E-class had a higher price to begin with, its depreciation rate was higher. So even though the residual value is already quite low on the GS (IMO), residual on the E is even lower.

Of course, it's not an apple-to-apple comparison since E-class was redesigned recently. I just hope the 3GS won't take such a big hit (as batman said) when 4GS comes around in 2012.

memasterac

End of lifecycle will hurt the GS price, new or used. But are you sure the new GS is coming out next year? Late 2012 as an 2013 model?

*Batman*

I think many of us are expecting early 2012 as a 2013 model. This was the guidance given by my dealer after they saw the sketches and the product roadmap in Las Vegas in the fall.

jjscsix

First of all, I don't consider the difference between 54 and 56 to be a very big difference ($1,000). Secondly, if you do the math I'd say the E loses more in dollars because a comparable E350 costs several thousand more than a GS350.

I just did the math - if you take a GS350 that lists for 51,000 vs a E350 that lists for $56,000, the E350 loses approx $1200 more in value.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Someone already said but I'll repeat....E350 is at the beginning of a new design cycle and GS is at the end. The Lexus is holding up well in that comparison.
Besides, we all know that in the long run, the GS will be a better buy and hold more value.
Also, who wants to be in the shop all the time with that E.

*Batman*

I have found that the price structure for German cars is more complicated than that.

There are 4 selling prices to consider: MSRP, Invoice, Euro Delivery MSRP and Euro Delivery Invoice. I have found that with strong negotiating and purchasing discipline you can get cars for close to Euro Delivery Invoice. This is 14% less than MSRP. However residuals are calculated off of MSRP.

In the case of the 550i I was looking at this meant there was something like a $390 per month difference between leasing the car at MSRP and leasing the car at ED Invoice. You would never see that range of lease discounting on a Lexus.

When you factor in that 14% discount, the Mercedes is close to or less than the Lexus after dealer discount.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

ummm, i think actually you can widen this to most models between lexus and mb and it will be the same. gs being close to end of cycle vs the e class early in the cycle, that's only a very minor reason, actually.

if you do some study between lexus vs bmw vs mb lease, you will see this is nothing surprising at all.

historically, bmw and mb always have much higher msrp compared to lexus. in order to sell their cars, they always set the residual to higher in order to make lease attractive. on the other hand, lexus keep the residual values at a very reasonable (and accurate) level. so in comparison, lexus is much more expensive to lease.

i will use a few examples to illustrates my point. back in 2007 when i leased my ls460l. msrp on that car was 85k, residual was set at 48% i believe. the lease came out to around 1200 a month. on a comparable (option wise) s550, msrp was over 100k. i forgot the residual, but lease payment was also around 1200. and it was not because of the money factor. so that tells you how high they set the residual at

2008, when we leased our m3. msrp 78k, money factor almost 0, and payment is around 1000 a month. compared to isf (2008), msrp 62k, my cap cost price was below 50k, however payment was still around 850 a month. that was because the residual was set quite low again at around 50%. if you go lease a 2011 m3 now (coupe), msrp around 70k i think. they set the residual at a whopping high 62 or 65%, and your monthly will be around 850 as well.

if you look at most lexus vehicles, their residual values after 3 yrs are usually around 50%. however if you look at euro cars, their residuals are much higher around 55% to 65%. THAT, is the reason why their lease payments are a lot more attractive than lexus.

however, if you look at reality, lexus is being realistic. there is no way those bmw and mb are retaining close to as much residual after 3 yrs. it's not hard to figure, just go to forums and look at how much those used cars are being sold for and you get a good idea.

m5, msrp mostly 100k. but look at 3-4 yrs used car, they are all around 40-50k (50%). e63, 100k, look at a 2007, it will be in low to mid 40s (45%). s550, mostly over 100k. look for a reasonable 2007 now, it will be in low to mid 40s (40%). it gets worse and worse if you go higher models.

so what does this mean?
1) if you lease, mb and bmw are almost always a better option. much cheaper for what you get compared to lexus.
2) if you want to own, lexus is much better because their price structures are set based on a realistic market model. if you buy mb and bmw, you will be the one paying for the holes (keep in mind, euro cars, their invoice prices are relatively closer to msrp)
3) bmw and mb keep on digging holes for themselves, the dealerships are the ones suffering. they lease cars at low price, when cars come back, they aren't worth close to residual values at all. so someone will have to take the loss

this has been discussed extensively before. again, it has little to do with 3gs vs w212. it's the price structure between lexus and bmw/mb

and keep in mind, the examples i use, they have nothing to do with new/old models. ls460l and s class, both out 2007. m3 and isf, both out 2008

rominl

iTrader: (4)

not entirely correct. 14% of 56k, that's about 7800. when i got my gs350, msrp was 52k. price i got the car, around 44k. that's invoice and 8k difference. it's the EXACT same thing.

lease calculations are all the same across all brands. residuals are calculated using msrp, and cap cost is all up to your negotiation. no difference between bmw or lexus or mb.

so in some way, cap cost minus residual is the amount you will "pay", and then it's up to money factor to decide how much you pay. but in the case of bmw, they have to raise the residual % to higher, in order to jack that value up so the overall amount people "pay" is less.

JL6speed

This is what I think... That person that went w/ the Benz got swayed into getting it because he thought it was "better value". Personally, if I am dead set on getting a car, I'm gonna get that car.

But I think it's a stupid reason to go a diff route just cuz of "better value". I'd rather take in account of the whole package like reliability or personal appeal.