helpmeout1

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...t-braking.html

*Batman*

Michelin Xi2 are pretty good on ice.

BinaryJay

Yep. Put these on my winter wheels this year. I have these and I have been able to scoot right around long curves in a side street that were iced over by my mother's house in power mode no problemo.

worker

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=135 Not bad. Look like Continental is a better choice and last time I check their price is better than Michelin too.

Power mode but U didn't accelerate to 70mph through those corners did you? The mode make the biggest different during acceleration and stopping. And it's only to help. OP discovered that it doesn't do anything when he was doing 5mph.

*Batman*

Have any of you guys looked into Nokian WRG2 tires? Apparently they are winter rated all seasons?

helpmeout1

There seems to be a problem with a certain combination of conditions where a high idle rpm causes the TRAC/VSC/ABS system to fail. Our cars have ABS, and the front brakes should not completely lock up while the rear wheels continue to force the car forward. This is obviously a problem with Lexus GS’s, and tires may help the situation but are not going to remedy it.

Obviously in these situations there seems to be enough traction for the rear wheels to grip and push the car forward, so the car should also have enough traction to stop; this is demonstrated by putting the car in neutral when the car is having this issue. As many of you probably know by now the car actually will stop IMMEDIATELY in this situation if you put the car in neutral. However, if you continue to slam on the brakes after a while the ABS will finally kick in and stop the car – usually too late.

This is a serious safety issue! I know that this situation only occurs at very low speeds, but we don’t want someone blowing through a stop sign and getting sideswiped by cross traffic (almost happened to me, and happened to someone else with a GS). Even if a situation like that doesn’t occur, you may still end up replacing your front bumper often because you ran into the end of your garage (happened to me), or the wall in a parking garage (happened to someone else with a GS), or bumped the car ahead of you at a stop light (almost happened to me).

My findings are that the issue only occurs on wet/snowy/icy pavement, or on dry pavement with wet/snowy tires, when the idle rpm is higher than 800 rpm. I have found that the brakes and TRAC/VSC/ABS system works perfectly when the car is fully warmed up. I can pretty much stop on a dime on complete ice if the car is fully warmed up; however, if the car is not warmed up and the idle is above 800 rpm I am in for a ride.

You guys really should submit complaints on NHTSA’s website, even if you don’t submit your VINs. Given my personal experience, and recent events, Toyota is not going to do anything about the issue unless they are forced to. Jackballer, you really need to submit something to NHTSA since someone else witnessed the front brakes being completely locked up while your rear wheels were still turning. I have been battling Toyota on this for over a year, and could really use some support on this.

How to circumvent the problem:
- Put car in neutral if it won’t stop.
- Fully warm up the car (can take up to 10 min) before going anywhere, so that the idle is around 600-700 rpm.

How to fix the problem:
- Report the problems to NHTSA so they can force Toyota to do something about it.
- Sell your car (not what any of us really want to do), and tell Toyota to take a hike.

BinaryJay

Never noticed anything like this with my AWD.

MichaelPea

Help, I can tell you from over 35 years of driving in sometimes snowy, sometimes icy Western PA and having done so in too many cars to count it is not the least bit unusual. My GS is no exception. If you're more accustomed to a stick shift it could feel a bit unsettling but it's really not abnormal. I've experienced the same thing in GMs, Fords, BMWs, Mercedes, an Izusu, several Subarus and a host other brands. Either let the car warm up or be prepared to shift into neutral when you try to stop.

I think the problem arises in the proportioning of braking power in that a greater proportion of the braking power is applied to the front brakes. Consequently, the front wheels will lock and slide while the back wheels (with less braking pressure) are still pushing you along. If you have less than great tires on the front and better tires on the back, the problem becomes amplified.

LexFather

Good post. At this rate lets sue God and Mother Nature in a class action lawsuit for snow

helpmeout1

For the most part, I agree with your post and the logic makes sense. However, I never experienced this problem in my 2001 GS430 and it had more low-end torque. The TRAC and ABS in my 01 was flawless; it worked when it needed to and not when it didn't (like when trying to quickly make a left turn in front of traffic - 07 just cuts out and leaves me stranded in front of oncoming traffic).

I would think this issue would be more prominent in, or even isolated to, the RWD models.

I realize that nothing can be done on some road conditions, but pulling onto a dry garage floor with wet tires shouldn't be a problem. You don't see my wife crashing her Acura into the end of the garage, and I didn't crash my 01 430 into the end of my garage, but I have crashed my 07 once and almost have several other times (tires don't make a difference here).

worker

^ Your biggest mistake is the word "quickly". Never never ever do anything quickly in bad weather.

What other differences between '01 and '07 beside the RWD? Could be your driving style.

MichaelPea

Maybe you have something else going on but my car has never slid on a dry garage floor. Wet tires or not it has never happened. Is your garage floor just concrete or is it painted or tiled? My GS is an AWD model but TRAC and ABS should have no role pulling the car into the garage. The car shouldn't be moving fast enough for either system to come into play so I think you may have something else going on with your car.

I do concur that when it's cold outside the idle speed is quite high on the 350. I'm not sure if the 460 behaves the same as my 350 but i'll assume it's close. For better or worse, to get >300 hp out of a relatively small engine, compression ratios on bone stock cars are higher than they've ever been. As compression ratios climb, keeping the car running when it's cold becomes more difficult and as a result, the idle speed is pretty high just to keep it from stalling. I would suggest that you take your car into a dealership and let them assess whether or not you have a high idle problem. At any rate, the car should not be able to skid the front wheels on a dry road.

helpmeout1

Worker - “Quickly” is on dry pavement. 01 and 07 both RWD.

MichaelPea - Garage floor is just concrete, and is not coated or sealed. Maybe it is just my car, but sounds like others are having very similar problems…..maybe just not as extreme me.

I think I am just going to dump the car, tell Lexus/Toyota thanks for nothing, and buy something else.

colosilver

I had this problem with my RWD '06 GS300 the other day and I was not at high idle and miles from my house on the way to work. I felt like somebody was pushing me, twice, while I was at a stop sign waiting in line. My tires aren't OEM, aren't overly worn or anything. I don't consider them to be great tires, but it still scared the holy hell out of me. I thought I was the only one.
It also has taken me awhile to get used to the VSC or whatever we have that comes into play when you go around a corner in the snow.

I don't have to be going fast and it must be tied into the front end sliding. I tried to do the old 180 slide with the car in a parking lot and it let the car slide until I had to steer back into it to straighten it out. No beeps, or anything and in the normal driving mode.
Yet, when I pulled into my subdivision and onto my street (same conditions), it did the beeping and whatever it does to straighten it out, which seems to be to jam the friggin binders. It really un-nerved me the 1st few times it did it, but I've learned to kind of "ride it out".

Mine seems to really want to do this in right turns. What I don't like is that it at least "feels" like I really slow down rapidly. I know someone almost rear-ended me the other day when I was freaking out with it and they didn't seem to be riding my bumper.

At the aforementioned stop signs, the nose kept wanting to slide to the right, into the ditch when the car was action like I was power-braking it.

My last 2 vehicles were 4 wheel drive trucks and they did better in 2WD in the snow and ice than this car does.

Before you say it, I'm a cautious driver, too. I'm getting to old to screw around. I'm in Colorado, so snow isn't a new thing to me.

helpmeout1

Funny you mention the slide to the right. A month into owning the car I almost ended up rear ending someone but the front of the car went off to the right and hit the curb instead. I know exactly what you are referring to.