Should a mark levinson system be a deal breaker?
11-30-12, 11:49 AM
#31
no stock radio today compares to that Nak...ML is just "ok" but its better then some have to offer. what will it take to get Lexus to bring it back
~91 rolling in a loaded SC400, perks of friends father owning a Lexus dealer, bumping some old school Eazy E "Cruisin in my 64'" heck the audio in this car dominated several nice exotics that my buddy was allowed to also free handily take out when ever he wanted.
~91 rolling in a loaded SC400, perks of friends father owning a Lexus dealer, bumping some old school Eazy E "Cruisin in my 64'" heck the audio in this car dominated several nice exotics that my buddy was allowed to also free handily take out when ever he wanted.
11-30-12, 05:12 PM
#33
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no stock radio today compares to that Nak...ML is just "ok" but its better then some have to offer. what will it take to get Lexus to bring it back
~91 rolling in a loaded SC400, perks of friends father owning a Lexus dealer, bumping some old school Eazy E "Cruisin in my 64'" heck the audio in this car dominated several nice exotics that my buddy was allowed to also free handily take out when ever he wanted.
~91 rolling in a loaded SC400, perks of friends father owning a Lexus dealer, bumping some old school Eazy E "Cruisin in my 64'" heck the audio in this car dominated several nice exotics that my buddy was allowed to also free handily take out when ever he wanted.
and a nice stereo made it even better
12-08-12, 09:12 PM
#35
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To ML or not to ML
why oh why did I read this thread?? I decided to say goodbye to my dear old 2002 ES300 because the ML stereo was biting the dust and the car was starting to get rickety. Nah, hell, I want a new toy! I found a nice 07 Red GS350with only 55k at a dealer about an hour away from home and after much negotiating I walked away from the car.
why?
The beauty had only the stock stereo and not the ML system installed. I listened to the system in the car as I was driving and wasn't impressed much even compared to my old system. I decided to listen to another GS at another lot with the ML system installed and I was completely blown away by it, more so than the stock system at the other dealership. Did I mess up or was my tinnitus worse one night than the other? It just seemed to much more crystal clear music on the ML system than the stock system. Was it the bad reception from the radio station? I may have screwed up and walked away from an amazing car because the dealer was none too happy about spending so much time with me and us not working out a deal.
Apologies about being so longwinded but this post is convincing me I should have just gone for the other car although they did admit there was some front end damage to it which was negligible. Oh what to do?
why?
The beauty had only the stock stereo and not the ML system installed. I listened to the system in the car as I was driving and wasn't impressed much even compared to my old system. I decided to listen to another GS at another lot with the ML system installed and I was completely blown away by it, more so than the stock system at the other dealership. Did I mess up or was my tinnitus worse one night than the other? It just seemed to much more crystal clear music on the ML system than the stock system. Was it the bad reception from the radio station? I may have screwed up and walked away from an amazing car because the dealer was none too happy about spending so much time with me and us not working out a deal.
Apologies about being so longwinded but this post is convincing me I should have just gone for the other car although they did admit there was some front end damage to it which was negligible. Oh what to do?
12-09-12, 06:33 AM
#36
Take a CD you know very well with you, next time you look at ANY car, and listen to it without the car moving.
At least it'll be a consistent source for you to gauge whether one system is better than the other.
I'd even go back to the first one - and if the sound is good enough for you, then resurrecting the deal shouldn't be an issue.
At the end of the day, it's YOUR money, irrespective of how long you and salesperson have been chewing the fat, etc.
If the deal doesn't grab you, then you walk away and try to find the one that does.
At least it'll be a consistent source for you to gauge whether one system is better than the other.
I'd even go back to the first one - and if the sound is good enough for you, then resurrecting the deal shouldn't be an issue.
At the end of the day, it's YOUR money, irrespective of how long you and salesperson have been chewing the fat, etc.
If the deal doesn't grab you, then you walk away and try to find the one that does.
01-05-13, 12:41 PM
#37
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I just bought a 2010 GS 350 that was fully loaded - with all the packages including Levinson, just missing the pre-collision system.
Honestly, the ML system was a deal-breaker for me - I wouldn't look at a car that was older than 2010, over 20k miles, or lacked the ML system and it had to be CPO- pretty hard to find / pricy specs - but I found it, and a great price, too!
I love the GS, amazing car - I had a 2001 GS 430 with the ML system back then - and it was amazing. I didn't spend much time listening to my 2010 GS' ML system before buying it ...
BUT - to be honest, I'm not blown away by the quality of the ML system in my 2010 GS - reasons: lack of control, type of music I listen to, and general picky-ness. Now, I have a fair bit of experience with electronics, audio (have an advanced degree in acoustics, played several brass instruments) and tinker with speakers/audio on the side.
If you want to listen to original CDs of Norah Jones or DVD-audio of classical music all day - the system is absolutely top-notch. I love Norah, Enya, other smooth / easy-listening and classical music in the car (that's well-mastered and high quality) - it is a really enveloping experience.
When I put on some Walk the Moon, or Metallica, or fun. (pop / more electronica rock) - the system sounds totally different, and usually not in a good way.
There are really only a handfull of options that we have to tweak the system - a basic treble / mid / bass equalizer, can move the 'focus' around the car's seating locations, and whether or not the 'Surround' mode is 'on' or 'off'. I think the system sounds pretty lifeless when the 'Surround" mode is off. I haven't been able to find much information about the "Surround" mode, either, but I'm assuming it uses a fairly standard audio codec that may or may not be modified for the specific car model... Basically, it attempts to take stereo sound and force it into 5.1 channels - and it seems to me like it is treating pure audio like the audio track of a movie - and attempts to throw voice to the center speaker, and tries to shove certain parts to only the back speakers as 'background' ...
There are times when I'm listening to a song (Walk the Moon - Anna Sun, for example), at the beginning of a vocal phrase - for a very short time (just a couple hundred milliseconds) it will start playing the vocal track in the rear of the car, but quickly 'corrects' and suppresses it in the rear, and emphasizes it in the front - it doesn't last long, but I can detect it - and it is very frustrating, and fatiguing, honestly. Perhaps I'm more sensitive than most - but this is a problem that I don't seem to see many people talk about - and one that I'm not sure how to tackle (I'm certainly not replacing the head unit...)
And perhaps it is just my particular vehicle - anyone with a GS in Miami mind if I listen to their system for a little while? - Honestly, I'd love to!
Wow - Sorry about being so long-winded, guess I needed to vent. I'd love to talk about this more if anyone else is interested...
But, my suggestion is just to interview the car thoroughly - I doubt that ML would be a deal breaker for anyone (I was picky, but I'd probably be just as happy without it - given the audio processor limitations)... If you're really interested in increased power handling - then chances are you'd have to upgrade everything anyway - gets very expensive if you want it done right.
Honestly, the ML system was a deal-breaker for me - I wouldn't look at a car that was older than 2010, over 20k miles, or lacked the ML system and it had to be CPO- pretty hard to find / pricy specs - but I found it, and a great price, too!
I love the GS, amazing car - I had a 2001 GS 430 with the ML system back then - and it was amazing. I didn't spend much time listening to my 2010 GS' ML system before buying it ...
BUT - to be honest, I'm not blown away by the quality of the ML system in my 2010 GS - reasons: lack of control, type of music I listen to, and general picky-ness. Now, I have a fair bit of experience with electronics, audio (have an advanced degree in acoustics, played several brass instruments) and tinker with speakers/audio on the side.
If you want to listen to original CDs of Norah Jones or DVD-audio of classical music all day - the system is absolutely top-notch. I love Norah, Enya, other smooth / easy-listening and classical music in the car (that's well-mastered and high quality) - it is a really enveloping experience.
When I put on some Walk the Moon, or Metallica, or fun. (pop / more electronica rock) - the system sounds totally different, and usually not in a good way.
There are really only a handfull of options that we have to tweak the system - a basic treble / mid / bass equalizer, can move the 'focus' around the car's seating locations, and whether or not the 'Surround' mode is 'on' or 'off'. I think the system sounds pretty lifeless when the 'Surround" mode is off. I haven't been able to find much information about the "Surround" mode, either, but I'm assuming it uses a fairly standard audio codec that may or may not be modified for the specific car model... Basically, it attempts to take stereo sound and force it into 5.1 channels - and it seems to me like it is treating pure audio like the audio track of a movie - and attempts to throw voice to the center speaker, and tries to shove certain parts to only the back speakers as 'background' ...
There are times when I'm listening to a song (Walk the Moon - Anna Sun, for example), at the beginning of a vocal phrase - for a very short time (just a couple hundred milliseconds) it will start playing the vocal track in the rear of the car, but quickly 'corrects' and suppresses it in the rear, and emphasizes it in the front - it doesn't last long, but I can detect it - and it is very frustrating, and fatiguing, honestly. Perhaps I'm more sensitive than most - but this is a problem that I don't seem to see many people talk about - and one that I'm not sure how to tackle (I'm certainly not replacing the head unit...)
And perhaps it is just my particular vehicle - anyone with a GS in Miami mind if I listen to their system for a little while? - Honestly, I'd love to!
Wow - Sorry about being so long-winded, guess I needed to vent. I'd love to talk about this more if anyone else is interested...
But, my suggestion is just to interview the car thoroughly - I doubt that ML would be a deal breaker for anyone (I was picky, but I'd probably be just as happy without it - given the audio processor limitations)... If you're really interested in increased power handling - then chances are you'd have to upgrade everything anyway - gets very expensive if you want it done right.
01-07-13, 08:18 AM
#38
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lol, love the responses, some great ones. In the end, I went to buy a paint stick from my Lexus dealership about 2 yrs ago for my 02 Lexus and was talking to the resident parts guy there. This was about 9 at night! and he was friendly enough although a bit odd. He told me as we were chatting that he loved his job and working for Lexus and what car I owned. I told him a 02 Es300 which I just adored and then he told me that if there was one amazing car that Lexus put out, it was the GS line, the 350 especially. They were rare in the sense that not many people traded them back to the dealership unless they were buying a newer one. From then on, I knew I wanted one. Years later, after holding out for a ML system on the GS, I found one that was just right and fit my budget. Honestly I didn't regret it although I don't think the ML system was that amazing. I heard the ML system once at the same dealership on an 08 GS cranked LOUD by a salesperson to show me how awesome the system was to stock and did it ever sound phenomenal but I've never been able to replicate that with my car to this day. Oh well, love the car and the system helps. Mine is fully stocked except for the pre-collision and the sport mode and I'm fine with it. Do these 2 options make a big difference?
01-07-13, 02:06 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
To me ML is not a deal breaker. I would spend the money if it is available but I could also spend that money for aftermarket like my current setup. A deal breaker or not is really a relative thing...
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