bossens

I want to swap for a low mileage engine or maybe rebuild in my 2007 GS350, but it is hard to find a low mileage 2007-2011 GS350 motor and rebuilds aren't cheap with not much benefit. I have done some research and the later years RC GS and IS. Those cars have the 2GR-FSE, but what changes were made to make it different? Yes, some had 8-speed transmissions, but the block and heads should be exactly the same, right?

Basically, has anyone swapped a 4th gen 2013+ 2GR-FSE engine into their 3rd gen?

I know it is possible (I saw an ad for a 2008 GS, that the dude swapped the motor from a 2013, but didn't get the specifics on the process). You guys think its just some electrical connectors and miscellaneous easily swapped parts, or we talking major bolt pattern changes to the bell housing and such?

Thanks

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

Whats wrong with your motor?

bossens

I have 186k miles, burning 2 quarts of oil every 600 miles, my cat went bad again from it, and I am due a water pump. I have tried alot of different fixes, nothing solved the oil burning, so I was going to tear is down and overhaul, it rebuild, or swap.

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

2qt every 600 miles is a lot! Seems like your oil passage are clogged on the pistons/oil control rings/pistons orfices. Out of curiosity how many miles did you do your oil changes at, and what oil did you use?

Try this before you go swapping engines, remove all the spark plugs pour in a good amount of seafoam into each spark plug hole. Whichever cylinder you see gets drained quickly know thats the problem cylinders. Let it sit overnight with SF in the cylinder overnight and then empty out the fluid by turning the engine over without the plugs once or twice.

bossens

Thanks ibudi1,

I got the car with 130k, so I dont know the oil change interval from previous owner. I change oil every 4500, used high mileage Valvoline synthetic 5w30. I have done plenty of maintenance and upkeep on my car and pretty thorough about oil changes, spark plugs, tire rotations, etc.

When I bought the car, I drove off lot and P0420 popped up, the dealer was cool and replaced the Cat for me. But they replaced the wrong side...needless to say, it popped up again. I bought a "used" manifold from salvage yard with 77k, code went away until recently at 185k P0420 back on. I am confident it is the cat again, because I have went through and checked the O2 sensors. So, oil burning is possible culprit of this, and now that cat has 135k miles (just like the one I replaced before).

Oil consumption was at 1-2 quart every oil change when I first bought it and has slowly increased to now I have low oil light every 600 miles. I have to add from 1.5-2 quarts every 600 now--I have even set a personal maintenance reminder to do so every 600 before the light comes on.
Done already:
1. fuel injector cleaner ran through every few gas tank fill-ups
2. changed PCV valve again with OEM one.
3. seafoamed the engine.
4. changed spark plugs (plugs 5/6 are always pretty black, could be the cylinders with the most oil blow by)

each time I drive 600 miles and check oil consumption. nothing yet has changed the oil burning.

My next plan,
1. fill up cylinders with berrymans B12 -- like you suggested with the seafoam.
2. switch to a better oil (did some research and AMS oil or Penzoil Platinum seems to be better suited for our motors)

If there is still no change, then I am going to tear it all down and check for carbon build up in the head and maybe change the piston rings. But, that is such a big job, I thought of just swapping the motor. I know the oil rings are better on the 2010 and up 2gr-fse engines.

Thoughts?

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

Is this an AWD? If it is, awd's are known to have exhaust leaks at the mid pipes, triggering a cat or o2 sensor code. For all awd they have a design flaw with the mid pipes, they have tin covering a fiber matting covering the exhaust tubes. The problem is that the matting holds moisture and slowly rots out the exhaust tube. Eventually you get leaks inside the tin or at the couplings. If its awd I would remove all the tin and matting off the car and test for exhaust leaks at the mid pipe.

My theory is not the oil type, but more so running the car at higher mileage. Thankfully im at 190k miles and no consumption issues, I change the oil at 3,000 miles and use regular conventional castrol gtx with oem filters. Synthetic oil is better but cost is higher and its a not race engine

Here is a video showing how to seafoam the pistons, but instead after you finishing soaking them overnight. Remove the plugs and crank the engine without the plugs, this will spray out the seafoam you poured in, this is so you dont compress the liquids and hydrolock the engine.

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

bossens

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm suprised you dont burn any oil, 3000 miles is really short, I'd be changing my oil almost every other month...but I think maintenance, climate and how someone drives play a huge factor in oil consumption. Have you had the car the whole 190k?
I drive about 70 miles a day commuting to work, a mix of stop/go and freeway, with some spirited driving--my car gets drivin, and not just grandma'd around--dont know if that changes anything. No, it's a RWD. I pretty sure its the blowing that much burnt oil through my exhaust/cat is my problem.

What I found researching was that Oils with a better high temperature volatility should be better in the direct injection 2GR. Found this on the web, pretty good info on oils and some extensive testing.

http://superoilcentral.com/synthetic...il-comparison/

Plus, Synthetics aren't that much more expensive and if they dont just burn up especially if I want a slightly longer oil change interval, then its worth me trying to solve my oil consumption issue. I will give the seafoam a try and post my results.

My original post was about a 4th gen engine swap and although I'm not quite ready to give up on my 2007 engine, I would like to know if anyone has done this swap or know if its possible....?

ibidu1

iTrader: (1)

I purchased the car with 95k I drive more city then highway. Ive been using castrol gtx ever since I purchased the car, its been good to me at 3k miles. I figure the longer you leave oil in a car running the more containments it collects. Sure your oil may last 10,000 miles but the trash that is collected gets trapped inside the engines small orifices. Changing fluids sooner is always a good thing

Try the chemical solution in hopes of getting it freed up. If not you have an option you can always just remove the heads, and oil pan you may or may not have to remove the engine from the car, but removing the engine maybe easier by dropping it out with the subframe/suspension. Doing it this way allows you to avoid having to remove the transmission. Once you remove both heads and oil pan should be able to give you access to the connecting rod bolts from the bottom. From there you can undo the rods and slide out each piston, so you can remove each one clean it and installed new rings. Also before you install the heads take it to a machine shop and have them check the valve guides, and replace the valve seats. This would be the cost effective way vs buying a new engine and swapping it.

bossens

I'm not sure how cost effective it will be for me to have my car out of commission for weeks tearing it all apart. I am comparing a low mileage 4th gen 2gr-fse from a junkyard for less than $3k versus the cost of all the maintenance parts associated with a high mileage GS engine. Also factor in the time and effort to tear down the motor in my garage versus a couple days for a swap...and not too mention a tear down could find my motor is shot, then it was a waste.

I just want to know if anyone has swapped a 4th gen motor in, and what their experience was. How much difference is there between the generations of 2gr-fse?????

SebastianD

I would personally just recommend buying a 4th gen GS350 and using the 3K as a down payment. The updates all around are significantly better than 3rd gen. Particularly the 2013-2015.

bossens

Update:
I fixed the oil consumption through pouring Berryman B12 in each cylinder, let soak for 24 hours, rotate crank by hand several times, vacuum out Berryman's, and re-oil piston rings with fresh oil. I did a bunch of other stuff too, new water pump, thermostat, hoses, radiator, pulley, belt, valve cover gaskets (gaskets were hard as rock and scrubbed the valve covers clean too, had sludge build up).

Now using Pennzoil Platinum 5-30. Changed the oil twice now at about 4500 miles each time, maybe 1/2 quart loss. The oil light never comes on between oil changes anymore.

Only using Chevron 91 and running injector cleaning every couple fill-ups. So far so good. 196k miles and still pulling 26mpg.

Thanks for the advice everyone. No longer need to replace/rebuild motor.

I cant stand the thought of buying a 4th gen for as much as they still are. Love the styling, but dont like the infotainment on the 4th gen, would not be much of an upgrade to get a 2013+. Plus I own my car -- and defintely don't want another car payment for something only slightly better. Also, the 8-speed transmission in the 4th gen (2014+) feels like a dog to me. Glad I don't have to spend big bucks now either way.

PauloFR

Waw. With this maintenance, it is nearly like the engine has resurrected, congratulations!