Weird,
2013 GS350 Base Model
I fill up and car won't start. Will crank but not turn over and start.
I have new gas cap and it's on correctly.
It WILL start with spare key. Like anti theft kicks in and locks out the original key.
After it starts with the spare, I can start with either key.
Anyone seen this before?

 

You mean the car will crank but not start. Crank and turning over is the same thing. This never happens in any other scenario? What if you pull up to the gas station, remove the gas cap do everything else the same but don't put any gas in it.

 

i can remove and replace gas cap (without fueling) and car starts normally. When I fuel, then it won’t start unless I use a different key.

 

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you swap the batteries of the key fobs? Or just put a known good/new battery in the problem key? After you refuel with the "bad" key, does your door keyless entry work fine?

*Actually now that I think about it, if the "bad" key was a dead key fob battery, it wouldn't even attempt to crank, right?

Does it do it with any refuelling? Like 1 gal vs 10 gal? And when you say you open the gas cap and close it (and it starts fine), are you leaving the gas cap open for the same amount of time as you would while doing a refuel?

If you crank with the bad key, then stop, and crank again, does it start?

These questions are more to see if there is some pattern.
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Last question, have you scanned it to see if some codes are being stored?

 

I can't figure any relation at all to fueling the car, and/or not fueling, that the car would not start with one fob, then start with the 2nd one, then start fine from then on.

There are EVAP purge solenoid, canisters, evaporation system leaks, check engine lights, and hard starts after fill up's I have seen. Also fuel pump problems. I think you may have one of those. I don't think you using the 2nd key is making it start. I think it's just a wait time. Next time it does this I would wait 5 mins and just try it again with the 1st key still. Some that had this problem had to wait 10mins or more.

Also do you have both keys in the car, or on you at the same time together?

 

For more context:
this has happened twice.
elisode 1
1. Old gas cap
2. Filled tank.
3. Key works EXCEPT for starting. (Locks and unlocks etc just won’t start).
4. Called wife and she brought spare key. (15 min lapse of time),
5. Key 2 started immediately.

checked codes after this . Nothing.

Course of action:
1. New batteries in both key fobs.
2. New OEM gas cap.
3. Drove car 100 miles with plenty of clean starts.
4. Filled up and same issue.
5. Walked home and got spare key.( 20 min round trip)
6. Wondered if it was a time lapse issue so

• left the spare key with gas attendant far from car and re-attempted to start car. Same issue no start.
• locked car, swapped key ( left original key far away)
• spare key started car no issue.

Haven’t tried swapping batteries in fob and re-trying same key.
Next troubleshoot is to fuel but only to half tank and see what happens.

perplexed. Thinking something triggers anti theft feature not allowing fuel to pump.

 

Also…no other performance symptoms.
car just had new water pump, plugs, timing chain, valve cover gaskets, drive belt, etc.
been running awesome so no weird or intermittent performance issues.

 

Try a different gas station maybe someone is messing with radio signals.

But yes try a partial fill see what happens.

 

Worth a shot, thanks

 

@mgarcialp - It sounds like you might have overfilled with gas and the EVAP purge valve is preventing the engine from starting. But given enough time (i.e. wife to bring spare key fob) the EVAP system was able to void the liquid fuel where only vapor remained and the engine started.

If both key fobs have fresh batteries there is no logical reason for key fob #1 to start the engine but not key fob #2, or visa-versa.

The one time you left the key with the attendant after filling up and was unable to start the engine, but then 20 minutes later you tried again with the same key fob but had the same results of the engine not starting - - yet after some further unknown period of time elapsed and by using spare key fob the engine was once again successfully started; the reason for this is because the first attempt did not provide enough time for the EVAP to rid itself of the liquid gas allowing the engine to start.

My thoughts are only a guess, mind you. But I do know that for some EVAP systems when the canister's charcoal filter gets saturated, usually from overfilling the gas tank, the engine turns over normally but will refuse to start. If this is the case with your car you may need to replace a component of the EVAP system, such as a filter. I'm quite sure your problem had nothing to do with either of the two key fobs, both even acknowledged to have new batteries. Your problem is elsewhere, and my best guess is your problem is related with the EVAP system because the common denominator in each of your 'no-start' events is filling up with gas.

 

Exactly what I was saying in post #5.

Without really realizing it's a not key related problem..... it will never be detected, and/or resolved. He needs to have a detailed OBD scan run to see what shows current, and history FIRST.

 

Wasn't there a recall for the fuel pump on Toyota and Lexus which would suddenly stop working?

 

You must be referring to the Lexus Special Service Campaign 21LC01 that I posted about two years ago in THIS THREAD.


If the OP's problem does happen to be a failed fuel pump he may have recently noticed the engine running rough or struggling to accelerate smoothly at any throttle position.

Most often a failed fuel pump is the result of running the pump dry at some time.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful opinions.
I will take in for an evaluation.
evap does make sense. That said, the point you made about time elapsing: in both instances 15-20 minutes elapsed. After that time the “original key”( the one I drove to the station with) would not work. But the spare did in both instances. Before I take it in for diagnostics I’m going to add small amount of fuel then try starting.
if starts then I’ll fill and try again.
will update.

 

I am currently having the same problem, after fueling the check engine light comes on and the car will have an extended attempt to start but won’t ever turn over all the way. Someone told me about a weird trick to start the car. Put in neutral yank wheel left and right then start. This has worked twice. I have had the car 2 times to mechanic to run diagnostics on it. Both times he can’t figure it out. This works without the waiting 15 min. Did you figure out what was wrong?