gio707

I am considering purchasing a used 2013 Lexus GS350 with 46K miles on it and yes, I will be getting a pre-purchase inspection from an independent mechanic shop. Experian Auto Check shows no accidents. Carfax shows no accidents either. No major issues found on Lexus service records online, but one area of concern is something I found on the Carfax and Lexus service records. They are: "No-start/hard start condition checked" and "Battery/charging system checked" which has me concerned that this may be an electrical system issue. The vehicle was not driven very much, so I am wondering if the alternator that has gone bad and the serpentine belt needs replacement (suspect it's cracked). I say this because the battery has been replaced multiple times and yet the issue remains - car won't start sometimes. Other than those two, no other majors concerns found - oil change done routinely.

Please see below for Lexus service records notes: SERVICE: R&R BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM IS GOOD (6/17/17)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES BATTERY KEEPS DYING, HAD TO BE JUMPED AND IT'S SLOW TO CRANK ~|~BATTERY COULD NOT HOLD CHARGE DUE TO INSUFFICIENT VOLTAGE ~|~R&R BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM IS GOOD.. T1:71 T2:19

SERVICE: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REPAIR (3/20/18)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED, INSPECT AND ADVISE. ~|~GATEWAY ECU ~|~29670 200 TESTED BATTERY PASSED, PERFORMED DRAW TEST FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. LET VEHICLE SIT FOR AN HOUR AND DRAW WAS HIGH, REPLACED GATEWAY ECU AND PERFORMED DRAW TEST AGAIN, DRAW DROPPED TO 0.021 AMPS, OK AT THIS TIME.

SERVICE: CUSTOMER STATES VEHILCE WILL NOT START. WIATING TO BE JUMP STARTED BY AAA (4/16/20)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THAT CAR WOULD NOT JUMP HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED. CHECK AND ADVISE ~|~ ~|~36411 50 REPLACED BATTERY
SERVICE: STARTING CONCERN (8/25/22)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS A SLOW CRANK WHEN STARTING ~|~ ~|~41417 0 LOAD TEST BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-CHARGING SYSTEM TESTS GOODSERVICE: ENGINE REPAIR (8/1/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE ENGINE KNOCKS WHEN COLD STARTING FOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS ~|~ ~|~44255 100 CHECK VEHICLE FOR ANY ABNORMAL KNOCKING NOISE FROM THE ENGINE AT START UP-HEARD NO ABNORMAL KNOCKING AT THIS TIME-HOLD VEHICLE OVERNIGHT TO RECHECK COLD IN THE MORNING-HEARD ONLY DRIVE BELT DOES CHIRP WHEN COLD-CHECK DRIVE BELT FOUND IT TO BE CR

SERVICE: NO START CONCERN (12/6/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE DOESNT GET DRIVEN MUCH-VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED ~|~ ~|~44850 CHARGE BATTERY-CHECK BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-HOLD VEHICLE OVER NIGHT TO RECHECK COLD-BATTERY TESTS GOOD AGAIN AND VEHICLE IS STARTING AS DESIGNED

SERVICE: BATTERY PRORATION (12/18/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS TO BE JUMP STARTED-AA TOLD THEM THE BATTERY IS LEAKING ~|~BATTERY FAILED TESTING ~|~44902 50 REPLACED VEHICLE STARTING BATTERY PER PARTS WARRANTY (WE INSTALLED RO# 7179897 4/17/20) AND CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM

SERVICE: BATTERY CONCERN (4/4/24)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE WOULDNT START-HAS ONLY BEEN DRIVEN 260 MILES IN 4 MONTHS SINCE WE INSTALLED A NEW BATTERY ~|~ ~|~45164 CHARGE AND TEST BATTERY-BATTERY PASSED LOAD TEST-RECOMMENDED THE CUSTOMER PURCHASE A BATTERY TENDER DUE TO THE LOW MILEAGE DRIVEN

Based on the above, my guess is that this vehicle has a bad alternator. My question is, do you think it's a bad alternator or could it be something else? I am thinking it will also need a new serpentine belt, as the tech notes mention chirp on belt and noted "CR" which my guess means cracked.

Thank you.

bclexus

It sounds like the battery (electrical/starting) problem was likely caused by the mysterious parasitic drain that many Lexus and Toyota vehicles suffered with for a number of years. It was said to be caused by a bad PCB land where a component was soldered within the GATEWAY ECU. However, some of the new replacement GATEWAY ECUs exhibited the exact same parasitic drain. Finally, I understand they figured it out and the newest version of the GATEWAY ECU is sound and flawless with a typical test draw of 15 mA (0.015 Amps). Chances the car has any other electrical related problems (e.g. alternator) are nil in my opinion.

gio707

Thank you for sharing, so my question is, how do I go about resolving the issue? Is it by replacing the GATEWAY ECU or something else? Should I pass on buying the car?

dwoods801

Does the car start and drive right now? If it’s currently running, buy it and just drive it regularly and I bet you never have any issues with it. If it was an alternator issue, it would have records of dying on the road, and getting towed to the dealership. This is a battery issue from not being driven regularly. Which is not the worst problem to have on a car you’re purchasing.

gio707

I am going to assume the car will start and drive. I will have that pre-purchase inspection and report the findings. I will also ask them to test the battery, alternator, and check the belt. It will take a couple of days as I have to schedule everything but will report back. Based on the VIN for the service bulletin, it appears this car falls under the ECU gateway problem so we shall see. The battery was replaced 3 times.

bclexus

If the battery was replaced 3 times in a relatively short period of time in all likelihood at least one or two of those times it was replaced due to it being drained by the parasitic problem, would be my guess. And, a vehicle that is not driven often with this problem is more likely to have the battery drained down where it would not start.

Unfortunately, there's practically no chance anyone inspecting the car will be able to determine if the car has a parasitic drain problem. It would be extremely rare for someone inspecting a car to perform an extended multi-hour amperage drain evaluation.

I would have the car inspected, but beyond the obvious I'd want to know about such things as brake pads, brake rotors, exhaust system, and serpentine belt - and easy to determine things like wiper blades, tires, tire wear indicating maybe an alignment is needed, etc.

Keep in mind there have been dozens of Lexus and Toyota models (not just the 4th Gen Lexus GS model) that have experienced this parasitic drain problem and now I'd guess most all these vehicles are without the problem - - so worse case it can be remedied, but you'll have to pay for the diagnosis, replacement ECU and the labor.

If possible I recommend finding an Indy (independent) shop nearby with preferably a trained Lexus/Toyota tech employed (or owner-operated) to not only inspect the car for you but as a choice to go to if you have the same battery drain problem the previous owner has had - for him to figure out if the GATEWAY ECU needs replacing with the newest version.

The complaint in the car's history about noise at cold startup is most likely just the fuel injection system's solenoids firing along with maybe the variable valve timing (VVT) system working as oil pressure increases and reaches the upper parts of the engine. I noticed it couldn't be duplicated after keeping the car overnight and checking it at cold start - so that should not be a concern...

bclexus

@gio707 - Don't think the parasitic problem was just with the GS 350. Look HERE for a sampling!

The above sampling is just that - mere samples of the multitude of possible locations (i.e. things) that could be the root cause of the parasitic drain. Some things are thought to be 'the problem' only later to learn that it was not the source of the parasitic drain problem. It was (and likely still is) a very difficult problem to pinpoint and fix with certainty...

gio707

Thank you for your thorough response and based on what everyone has shared (thank you), I feel hesitant to move forward with the purchase of the car. I don't want to end up spending additional money to try to remedy the issue should it happen to me. If it could be the ECU or something else, and it would require someone to thoroughly doing an electrical system diagnosis, it sounds like it's going to be $$$$$. As for the chirp sound, I agree. Aside from all of this, not sure the risk would be worth it in this case.

gio707

Geez... And I would not like to be stuck with this problem. Thanks again.

bclexus

@gio707 - I totally agree...

Even if it was a low mileage mint condition creampuff priced 30% below market value it could end up being a very expensive nightmare...



I'm quiet sure plenty of people got rid of otherwise very nice vehicles because of this frustrating problem. And, I'm also quite sure plenty of people were forced to buy new batteries long before they normally should have had to replace it. And, I'm also quite sure plenty of people spent many thousands of dollars on wreckers to haul their vehicle into a Lexus dealer's service center or some other shop, not to mention many more thousands of dollars spent in diagnosing the problem - just to be told that everything checked out okay and the car needs to be driven more often or recommending the owner buy a battery tender. I personally think that common excuse given to owners is bullsh^t! If it was my vehicle with that problem I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat and move on.

I'm a bit surprised there hasn't been more lemon-titled buybacks from infuriated owners. Or, a class action suit brought against the carmaker.

Maybe if there had been a class action suit brought against the carmaker that cost Lexus/Toyota a lot of negative publicity and press in which they had to pay out $20 or $30 Billion plus attorney fees - maybe this problem would have been solved much sooner and the carmaker would not have forever lost a lot of loyal customers that became fed up and just had 'all they could stand' of it.

I'm sure it's no fun arriving back from a 2-week vacation trip on a flight at night and finding your almost new Lexus car in the airport parking garage won't start so you must arrange to get it towed out of the garage in the middle of the night to get the car to a Lexus service center 2 hours away sometime the next morning. And, you need the car the next day to get to work. Then, you're told by the Lexus service advisor after they keep your car a couple days that you need a new battery (to replace the 2 month old battery they said you needed the last time this problem occurred), or that you need to drive the car more often, or that you should buy a battery tender.

Anybody dealing with this ongoing problem - I recommend getting rid of the vehicle...

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

Is this GS a Lux, Base or F Sport? Reading the 1st post, with only 46k on the car, the car was not driven enough at all. Even a cell charger would help drain the battery left plugged in to draw current.

Yes there is a Lexus Gateway board or whatever issue that would drain some even parked at the airport for a week. My thoughts are not being driven enough and that owner not understanding a dead battery are the only problems with it. If the price was right with only 46K? If you like the car take it to Lexus or Toyota ask for a Master Tech to do a check out. The dead start are all related to lack of driving it is all, is my guess.

bclexus

Jamie, maybe you missed all the times this car needed attention with reference to not starting or battery issues. This is far from normal and no owner should have to put up with it.

This is definitely a problem car!


DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES BATTERY KEEPS DYING, HAD TO BE JUMPED AND IT'S SLOW TO CRANK ~|~BATTERY COULD NOT HOLD CHARGE DUE TO INSUFFICIENT VOLTAGE ~|~R&R BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM IS GOOD.. T1:71 T2:19

SERVICE: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REPAIR (3/20/18)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED, INSPECT AND ADVISE. ~|~GATEWAY ECU ~|~29670 200 TESTED BATTERY PASSED, PERFORMED DRAW TEST FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. LET VEHICLE SIT FOR AN HOUR AND DRAW WAS HIGH, REPLACED GATEWAY ECU AND PERFORMED DRAW TEST AGAIN, DRAW DROPPED TO 0.021 AMPS, OK AT THIS TIME.

SERVICE: CUSTOMER STATES VEHILCE WILL NOT START. WIATING TO BE JUMP STARTED BY AAA (4/16/20)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THAT CAR WOULD NOT JUMP HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED. CHECK AND ADVISE ~|~ ~|~36411 50 REPLACED BATTERY
SERVICE: STARTING CONCERN (8/25/22)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS A SLOW CRANK WHEN STARTING ~|~ ~|~41417 0 LOAD TEST BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-CHARGING SYSTEM TESTS GOODSERVICE: ENGINE REPAIR (8/1/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE ENGINE KNOCKS WHEN COLD STARTING FOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS ~|~ ~|~44255 100 CHECK VEHICLE FOR ANY ABNORMAL KNOCKING NOISE FROM THE ENGINE AT START UP-HEARD NO ABNORMAL KNOCKING AT THIS TIME-HOLD VEHICLE OVERNIGHT TO RECHECK COLD IN THE MORNING-HEARD ONLY DRIVE BELT DOES CHIRP WHEN COLD-CHECK DRIVE BELT FOUND IT TO BE CR

SERVICE: NO START CONCERN (12/6/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE DOESNT GET DRIVEN MUCH-VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED ~|~ ~|~44850 CHARGE BATTERY-CHECK BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-HOLD VEHICLE OVER NIGHT TO RECHECK COLD-BATTERY TESTS GOOD AGAIN AND VEHICLE IS STARTING AS DESIGNED

SERVICE: BATTERY PRORATION (12/18/23)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS TO BE JUMP STARTED-AA TOLD THEM THE BATTERY IS LEAKING ~|~BATTERY FAILED TESTING ~|~44902 50 REPLACED VEHICLE STARTING BATTERY PER PARTS WARRANTY (WE INSTALLED RO# 7179897 4/17/20) AND CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM

SERVICE: BATTERY CONCERN (4/4/24)
DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE WOULDNT START-HAS ONLY BEEN DRIVEN 260 MILES IN 4 MONTHS SINCE WE INSTALLED A NEW BATTERY ~|~ ~|~45164 CHARGE AND TEST BATTERY-BATTERY PASSED LOAD TEST-RECOMMENDED THE CUSTOMER PURCHASE A BATTERY TENDER DUE TO THE LOW MILEAGE DRIVEN

tompass2

Replaced the battery in my '13 twice in 18 months. Why?....because we were not driving it and it just sat in garage. We since drive it 2 or 3 times a week and no issues so I would agree. Previous owner just did not drive it often enough.

JDR76

Been there. I had to replace the battery in my 2020 already as it died of boredom.

bclexus

He drove 260 miles in the 3 months, 17 days (108 days) from 12/18/2023 to 4/4/2024 after a new battery was installed on 12/18/2023. It's very doubtful that all 260 miles was driven in one long trip or period of time. Most likely the 260 miles was driven throughout the 108 day period of time between the time a new battery was installed on 12/18 and when the battery was dead and wouldn't start his car on 4/4. That 260 miles driven over a 108 day period should adequately charge/recharge the battery without problem.

The battery did not go dead from not driving the car enough! It's got a parasitic drain problem...