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@bclexus I cannot thank you enough. You are a wealth of knowledge.
I may try to install both the ECU and Beatsonic modules on my own, however I did see this video from Beatsonic. Looks like they have an official relationship with Lexus now to have their product installed at Lexus dealerships. Useful part is at 2:09.
Will watch the DIY how to videos for both the ECU install and the Beatsonic upgrade and see if it is something I feel like handling or if I just want to work an extra call shift or two and have it taken care of by the dealership.
Thanks for the shoutout!
Yes, it does indeed look like Lexus USA has now approved the installation of BeatSonic systems in Lexus models per the video.
Glad to have you here! Hoping you become a regular on the 4GS forum!
@bclexus Haha, will correctly refer to this as a forum and not a blog moving forward.
I did hear back from @gio707 and it sounds like he brought up the ECU issue with CarMax and they kind of blew him off. Besides that, the car apparently needs new tires and has some small paint scuffs. Will check it out, but not deal breakers in my opinion. I do have a test drive arranged for tomorrow night. Am on call, but hopefully will be able to make it or reschedule it for Tuesday.
"SERVICE: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REPAIR (3/20/18) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED, INSPECT AND ADVISE. ~|~GATEWAY ECU ~|~29670 200 TESTED BATTERY PASSED, PERFORMED DRAW TEST FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. LET VEHICLE SIT FOR AN HOUR AND DRAW WAS HIGH, REPLACED GATEWAY ECU AND PERFORMED DRAW TEST AGAIN, DRAW DROPPED TO 0.021 AMPS, OK AT THIS TIME."
In post #2 from that same thread, @bclexus stated the following:
"It sounds like the battery (electrical/starting) problem was likely caused by the mysterious parasitic drain that many Lexus and Toyota vehicles suffered with for a number of years. It was said to be caused by a bad PCB land where a component was soldered within the GATEWAY ECU. However, some of the new replacement GATEWAY ECUs exhibited the exact same parasitic drain. Finally, I understand they figured it out and the newest version of the GATEWAY ECU is sound and flawless with a typical test draw of 15 mA (0.015 Amps). Chances the car has any other electrical related problems (e.g. alternator) are nil in my opinion."
The rest of the service record quotes from post #1 are as follows:
"SERVICE: CUSTOMER STATES VEHILCE WILL NOT START. WIATING TO BE JUMP STARTED BY AAA (4/16/20) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THAT CAR WOULD NOT JUMP HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED. CHECK AND ADVISE ~|~ ~|~36411 50 REPLACED BATTERY
SERVICE: STARTING CONCERN (8/25/22) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS A SLOW CRANK WHEN STARTING ~|~ ~|~41417 0 LOAD TEST BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-CHARGING SYSTEM TESTS GOODSERVICE: ENGINE REPAIR (8/1/23) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE ENGINE KNOCKS WHEN COLD STARTING FOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS ~|~ ~|~44255 100 CHECK VEHICLE FOR ANY ABNORMAL KNOCKING NOISE FROM THE ENGINE AT START UP-HEARD NO ABNORMAL KNOCKING AT THIS TIME-HOLD VEHICLE OVERNIGHT TO RECHECK COLD IN THE MORNING-HEARD ONLY DRIVE BELT DOES CHIRP WHEN COLD-CHECK DRIVE BELT FOUND IT TO BE CR
SERVICE: NO START CONCERN (12/6/23) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE DOESNT GET DRIVEN MUCH-VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED ~|~ ~|~44850 CHARGE BATTERY-CHECK BATTERY-BATTERY TESTS GOOD-HOLD VEHICLE OVER NIGHT TO RECHECK COLD-BATTERY TESTS GOOD AGAIN AND VEHICLE IS STARTING AS DESIGNED
SERVICE: BATTERY PRORATION (12/18/23) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE HAS TO BE JUMP STARTED-AA TOLD THEM THE BATTERY IS LEAKING ~|~BATTERY FAILED TESTING ~|~44902 50 REPLACED VEHICLE STARTING BATTERY PER PARTS WARRANTY (WE INSTALLED RO# 7179897 4/17/20) AND CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM
SERVICE: BATTERY CONCERN (4/4/24) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES THE VEHICLE WOULDNT START-HAS ONLY BEEN DRIVEN 260 MILES IN 4 MONTHS SINCE WE INSTALLED A NEW BATTERY ~|~ ~|~45164 CHARGE AND TEST BATTERY-BATTERY PASSED LOAD TEST-RECOMMENDED THE CUSTOMER PURCHASE A BATTERY TENDER DUE TO THE LOW MILEAGE DRIVEN"
TLDR: It sounds like this vehicle had a parasitic ECU as described by TSB L-SB-0035-16 (attached file) from July 2016. Based on the service records, if accurate, the ECU was replaced on 3/20/2018...almost 2 years after the TSB was issued. I think it is safe to assume the ECU was replaced with a new non faulty one unless the Lexus service records are not correct or somehow another bad ECU was used. Based on the following records dated 4/16/20 (2 years after the ECU was replaced), 8/25/22, 8/1/23, 12/6/23, 12/18/23, 4/4/24, it seems like it is likely the ECU issue was addressed which is why there were no other records with problems related to parasitic drain for 2 years after the ECU was replaced. It also seems like this car was not driven much which may have been part of the problem moving forward after the ECU was addressed.
Will try to get a thorough prepurchase inspection with Lexus of Roseville (unless someone recommends another dealership like Lexus of Sacramento instead for some reason) and discuss the history of parasitic drainage and the ECU with the service department. May consider getting the ECU looked at (or even replaced just to be safe) but since this will be a daily driver and driven 10k-12k miles a year, I don't think it will be much of an issue. If it is, will buy a battery tender.
Looking forward to checking this 2013 GS 350 out. My current ride is a 2006 Acura TL with 180k miles. Automatic transmissions are known to be a weak point on Acura models from this time and mine is starting to give me problems. Got quoted $14k to fix replace the transmission, fix the engine mount, replace the front strut compliance bushings, fix a rear main seal leak, and replace oil, transmission fluid, and brake fluids. Car is probably not even worth $2k-$3k. Time for an upgrade. Even though this car is from 2013, I am sure it will feel like a huge upgrade to my 2006 TL...not sure how I will be able to play my cassette tapes as I don't think Lexus put a cassette tape player in the 2013 GS 350. Maybe Beatsonic can put one in their CarPlay/Android Auto S Connect Device (lol).
Thank you to both @bclexus and @gio707 as well as the other posters on @gio707 's original post. The internet (and specifically the Club Lexus FORUM) have been incredibly helpful.
I did hear back from @gio707 and it sounds like he brought up the ECU issue with CarMax and they kind of blew him off. Besides that, the car apparently needs new tires and has some small paint scuffs. Will check it out, but not deal breakers in my opinion. I do have a test drive arranged for tomorrow night. Am on call, but hopefully will be able to make it or reschedule it for Tuesday.
"SERVICE: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REPAIR (3/20/18) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED, INSPECT AND ADVISE. ~|~GATEWAY ECU ~|~29670 200 TESTED BATTERY PASSED, PERFORMED DRAW TEST FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. LET VEHICLE SIT FOR AN HOUR AND DRAW WAS HIGH, REPLACED GATEWAY ECU AND PERFORMED DRAW TEST AGAIN, DRAW DROPPED TO 0.021 AMPS, OK AT THIS TIME."
In post #2 from that same thread, @bclexus stated the following:
"It sounds like the battery (electrical/starting) problem was likely caused by the mysterious parasitic drain that many Lexus and Toyota vehicles suffered with for a number of years. It was said to be caused by a bad PCB land where a component was soldered within the GATEWAY ECU. However, some of the new replacement GATEWAY ECUs exhibited the exact same parasitic drain. Finally, I understand they figured it out and the newest version of the GATEWAY ECU is sound and flawless with a typical test draw of 15 mA (0.015 Amp). Chances the car has any other electrical related problems (e.g. alternator) are nil in my opinion."
It sounds like this vehicle had a parasitic ECU as described by TSB L-SB-0035-16 (attached file) from July 2016. Based on the service records, if accurate, the ECU was replaced on 3/20/2018...almost 2 years after the TSB was issued. I think it is safe to assume the ECU was replaced with a new non faulty one unless the Lexus service records are not correct or somehow another bad ECU was used. Based on the following records dated 4/16/20 (2 years after the ECU was replaced), 8/25/22, 8/1/23, 12/6/23, 12/18/23, 4/4/24, it seems like it is likely the ECU issue was addressed which is why there were no other records with problems related to parasitic drain for 2 years after the ECU was replaced. It also seems like this car was not driven much which may have been part of the problem moving forward after the ECU was addressed.
Will try to get a thorough prepurchase inspection with Lexus of Roseville (unless someone recommends another dealership like Lexus of Sacramento instead for some reason) and discuss the history of parasitic drainage and the ECU with the service department. May consider getting the ECU looked at (or even replaced just to be safe) but since this will be a daily driver and driven 10k-12k miles a year, I don't think it will be much of an issue. If it is, will buy a battery tender.
Looking forward to checking this 2013 GS 350 out.
Thank you to both @bclexus and @gio707 as well as the other posters on @gio707 's original post. The internet (and specifically the Club Lexus FORUM) have been incredibly helpful.
@PA2017 - I fully expected that CarMax wouldn't entertain or be the least bit interested in dealing with the ECU matter - it was a stretch to think it would be...
Yes, it is disconcerting about the timeline after the records show replacing the 'Gateway' ECU (noticed it didn't state 'Network' Gateway ECU) in that the owner continued to have the battery drain problem.
I recommend checking (either yourself or pay to have a Lexus tech do it) to see exactly what the part number is on the Network Gateway ECU in that car. The one you ultimately want is P/N 89100-30181. Beyond that, I'm unaware of any problem that drains the battery, save for something modified or aftermarket added like a dashcam with a 'park mode' which requires constant voltage.
Replacing tires is often a common necessity when buying a pre-owned vehicle for a non-dealer. giving the buyer an opportunity to get the brand and type tires they really want and to get the car aligned for good future tire wear.
Paint scuffs and even dings are usually easy fixes for PDR experts. You can probably find out what day and time the PDR guy is scheduled for a local Lexus (or whatever brand) dealership and visit the dealership during that time and have him take care of your needs for a reasonable cash payment...
Let us know how the test drive goes! Good luck! Hope to catch you back soon on the forum!
Last edited by bclexus; 07-22-24 at 07:49 AM.
Reason: orthography
I did hear back from @gio707 and it sounds like he brought up the ECU issue with CarMax and they kind of blew him off. Besides that, the car apparently needs new tires and has some small paint scuffs. Will check it out, but not deal breakers in my opinion. I do have a test drive arranged for tomorrow night. Am on call, but hopefully will be able to make it or reschedule it for Tuesday.
"SERVICE: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REPAIR (3/20/18) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE JUMP STARTED, INSPECT AND ADVISE. ~|~GATEWAY ECU ~|~29670 200 TESTED BATTERY PASSED, PERFORMED DRAW TEST FOLLOWING GUIDELINES. LET VEHICLE SIT FOR AN HOUR AND DRAW WAS HIGH, REPLACED GATEWAY ECU AND PERFORMED DRAW TEST AGAIN, DRAW DROPPED TO 0.021 AMPS, OK AT THIS TIME."
For years and years now. Many Lexus models ,not just the GS have had a issue with the battery drain problem. I also a few years back when my GS was a Garage queen. I had no such problem anymore when I started to drive my GS more often, never again. I may get around to replacing the Gateway, but not having the problem now. From the previous thread about the same car myself and many others concluded that the car just needs to be driven at least once every 7 - 10 days.
In regards to the other issues, paint, and tires, and other. If all those things were brought to Lexus Certified sale spec's likely that GS would be $2k to $3k higher. If you search the Gateway issue here on CL, you will see tons of threads about it from all the diff Lexus models, not just the GS. Not in all cases did the newest Gateway resolve the problem when replace. As I mentioned before there are other user error things that can result in the drain for example leaving a seat belt fastened. Point is if the Gateway is replaced, and say a spare key is left in the car, a seat belt left fasten, and/or other, can also cause the problem, but if you daily drive, no one likely has this problem.
Update: So apparently Roseville Lexus no longer does prepurchase inspections. Thought that was odd, but it is what it is. Lexus of Sacramento service didn't pick up their phones multiple times which was annoying. Roseville Toyota right across the street from Roseville Lexus offered to do a prepurchase inspection and specifically look at the network gateway for the correct numbered network gateway ECU P/N 89100-30181 in the TSB. Figure Toyota mechanics know or can figure out their way around a Lexus. Best thing I could reasonably get done.
Also, pushed back the test drive until tomorrow night. Hopefully will be able to do it for 24 hours and get the prepurchase inspection done as scheduled Wednesday morning while I am at work around the corner. Too many broken hips to fix tonight.
Update: So apparently Roseville Lexus no longer does prepurchase inspections. Thought that was odd, but it is what it is. Lexus of Sacramento service didn't pick up their phones multiple times which was annoying. Roseville Toyota right across the street from Roseville Lexus offered to do a prepurchase inspection and specifically look at the network gateway for the correct numbered network gateway ECU P/N 89100-30181 in the TSB. Figure Toyota mechanics know or can figure out their way around a Lexus. Best thing I could reasonably get done.
Also, pushed back the test drive until tomorrow night. Hopefully will be able to do it for 24 hours and get the prepurchase inspection done as scheduled Wednesday morning while I am at work around the corner. Too many broken hips to fix tonight.
Thank you all.
@PA2017 - Excellent! Actually, it truly sounds like the best possible outcome!
Be sure to take the TSB (especially page 2 of 8 - image below) with you to Roseville Toyota about the Network Gateway ECU. The full TSB is in the attachment of this post...
If the installed ECU is not the new P/N 89100-30181 maybe Roseville Toyota's parts department has one in stock - if you don't mind paying probably retail price - so it can be replaced while the car is there for inspection. Or, maybe Roseville Lexus across the street has the correct ECU you can get if the Toyota parts department doesn't have it.
It's REALLY easy to access the Network Gateway ECU. Basically take out 5 screws, remove glovebox, tada! The Network Gateway ECU is sitting right there. It's the thing that has the bright orange label on it.
Be sure to let us know how it all goes!
What kind of broken hip related work do you do?
Last edited by bclexus; 07-22-24 at 04:45 PM.
Reason: orthography
@PA2017 - Excellent! Actually, it truly sounds like the best possible outcome!
Be sure to take the TSB (especially page 2 of 8 - image below) with you to Roseville Toyota about the Network Gateway ECU. The full TSB is in the attachment of this post...
If the installed ECU is not the new P/N 89100-30181 maybe Roseville Toyota's parts department has one in stock - if you don't mind paying probably retail price - so it can be replaced while the car is there for inspection. Or, maybe Roseville Lexus across the street has the correct ECU you can get if the Toyota parts department doesn't have it.
It's REALLY easy to access the Network Gateway ECU. Basically take out 5 screws, remove glovebox, tada! The Network Gateway ECU is sitting right there. It's the thing that has the bright orange label on it.
Be sure to let us know how it all goes!
What kind of broken hip related work do you do?
I am a PA (physician assistant) in orthopedic surgery. Normally do a lot of total joints and sports medicine, but we take call too and basically have "mild" trauma as the hospital I work for is not a trauma center.
Basically, I am a second set of hands in the OR. Have a few hip hemiarthoplasties to assist on tonight. Basically, we remove the femoral head as it is broken off of the rest of the femur at the femoral neck. We then cement a stem into the proximal end of the femoral canal after reaming it out and then put a new metal head onto the stem and pop it back into the hip socket.
You would think this kind of work would make me want to work on my own car and do something like an ECU replacement, however I am a firm believer in letting specialists do their things. I will gladly pay for a mechanic to work on my car while I operate. I also like the idea behind a warranty and if the dealership messes up the ECU replacement or if there is a problem with it later within a reasonable amount of time, they get to fix it. Peace of mind is valuable to me these days.
Will take a copy of the TSB with me. Good idea @bclexus !
I am a PA (physician assistant) in orthopedic surgery. Normally do a lot of total joints and sports medicine, but we take call too and basically have "mild" trauma as the hospital I work for is not a trauma center.
Basically, I am a second set of hands in the OR. Have a few hip hemiarthoplasties to assist on tonight. Basically, we remove the femoral head as it is broken off of the rest of the femur at the femoral neck. We then cement a stem into the proximal end of the femoral canal after reaming it out and then put a new metal head onto the stem and pop it back into the hip socket.
You would think this kind of work would make me want to work on my own car and do something like an ECU replacement, however I am a firm believer in letting specialists do their things. I will gladly pay for a mechanic to work on my car while I operate. I also like the idea behind a warranty and if the dealership messes up the ECU replacement or if there is a problem with it later within a reasonable amount of time, they get to fix it. Peace of mind is valuable to me these days.
Will take a copy of the TSB with me. Good idea @bclexus !
Nice! I have much respect for PAs in orthopedic surgery!
Which product system brand does the surgeon usually use for hip replacement? How about knees - which product system brand? Robotic-assisted surgery?
I suspect you help with the surgical drill and saw... I guess you get used to the smell of sawing through bones!
You're probably responsible for mixing/preparing the cement and timing the cure.
Last edited by bclexus; 07-22-24 at 07:14 PM.
Reason: orthography
Update: So apparently Roseville Lexus no longer does prepurchase inspections. Thought that was odd, but it is what it is. Lexus of Sacramento service didn't pick up their phones multiple times which was annoying. Roseville Toyota right across the street from Roseville Lexus offered to do a prepurchase inspection and specifically look at the network gateway for the correct numbered network gateway ECU P/N 89100-30181 in the TSB. Figure Toyota mechanics know or can figure out their way around a Lexus. Best thing I could reasonably get done.
Also, pushed back the test drive until tomorrow night. Hopefully will be able to do it for 24 hours and get the prepurchase inspection done as scheduled Wednesday morning while I am at work around the corner. Too many broken hips to fix tonight.
Thank you all.
If you can ask for a Master Tech. I service my car at a very good Toyota Dealer all the time now. Very good and much less than Lexus. I joking call it my shop, because I got to know them so well they let me go back there and talk, look, and even sometimes do small things when it's on their lift. Make sure they check for leaking Struts, and that all the a/c vent servo motors are all blowing the same temp air.
Nice! I have much respect for PAs in orthopedic surgery!
Which product system brand does the surgeon usually use for hip replacement? How about knees - which product system brand? Robotic-assisted surgery?
I suspect you help with the surgical drill and saw... I guess you get used to the smell of sawing through bones!
You're probably responsible for mixing/preparing the cement and timing the cure.
Mainly DePuy Synthes for our hips and knees. Some docs are starting to use the Velys robot for DePuy Attune knees, but not for hips. The Velys is a neat tool, but we are still far away from a robot doing the whole thing. Saws and drills are pretty fun too. Cement mixing is mainly done by the scrub techs. They seem to enjoy that part of the case.
Definitely would not have made the test drive tonight. Looking forward to it tomorrow.
Got a prepurchase inspection at a Toyota dealership. Car checks out great. ECU was checked and it turns out the new part number is on the ECU so it was changed in 2018. They did the testing per the TSB and said the draw is on the high end of normal, but it is still within the normal range of acceptable draw. If driven daily, should not be a problem. Only thing it needs is an HVAC software update.
Planning on purchasing later today after I finish up at work. Thanks for the help with this car!
Got a prepurchase inspection at a Toyota dealership. Car checks out great. ECU was checked and it turns out the new part number is on the ECU so it was changed in 2018. They did the testing per the TSB and said the draw is on the high end of normal, but it is still within the normal range of acceptable draw. If driven daily, should not be a problem. Only thing it needs is an HVAC software update.
Planning on purchasing later today after I finish up at work. Thanks for the help with this car!
Bought it tonight. Thank you to everyone who helped me out here especially @bclexus and @gio707 .
Went to put my backpack in the trunk and the trunk wouldn't open with the remotes. Looks like the CarMax warranty saga begins! Still have 10 days to return it or 5 years and 80k more miles of coverage to go haha.
Went to put my backpack in the trunk and the trunk wouldn't open with the remotes. Looks like the CarMax warranty saga begins! Still have 10 days to return it or 5 years and 80k more miles of coverage to go haha.
07-20-24, 06:31 PM
Thanks u/gio707
