BNR34

iTrader: (1)

My feeling is Lexus have no desire to compete with M5/E63/RS6, the game is being push too high for Lexus's taste, those cars all have 530hp~580 hp and cost $100k~$150k. The last RS6 was like $160k oversea.

From my observation, the ISF didn't do that well sales wise, even though it is an excellent car. Lexus is hesitated to make a even higher power, more expensive GS-F.......we would be lucky if they make the GS-F at all. They are just going thru with it and stick a slightly cranked up 5.0L V8 in it with 465 hp and sell it for $75k~$80k, that make sense.

It would be awesome if Lexus put the 550 hp LFA's V10 into the GSF, AKA E60 M5, hell I would want and buy one! But that would never happen, it takes away the execlusivity from the LFA and make the GSF cost way too much.

Sorry to point out the reality, but that's how I see it.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Battery is getting smaller everyday

J.P.

Thing for me is by the time they do a v10 with quality, your in the Panamera price range. v10 GS-F with Lexus quality for say 85k could think about it.

pavelekPL

Reading thru some of the posts about GS-F not or being produced and not having at least 500+ hp makes me think that the LFA was a bad idea. Just imagine, LFA having less power than a GS-F(for a lot less $$$$).
IMO if they went with 600-700hp in LFA (silly i know) then the 500+ hp GS-F might come true. Now Lexus/Toyota will be hesitant to put such power in their sedan.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

That's exactly my point.

They can put a V10 in the GS-F with a $150k price tag, but few people would buy one.

Tons of people would buy a $85k V10 GS-F, but they can't make it for that cheap.

That's why they are gonna make a $78k GS-F with a 465 hp 5.0L V8 and enough people should buy it to make a valid business case.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

then imho please don't stick the F badge on the. they basically destroy the concept

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i don't think the cars are to be put together for comparison. lfa is a halo niche car, the power number itself isn't what it's all about for that segment. it's more about the overall package, and it's only 500 units (compared to other real mass production vehicles). buyers for this car is more about the overall package, technology, and the driving.

but for the gsf, you need to look at the target audience and who are actually going to buy the cars. look at that segment. e63 and m5, both massive power numbers. like it or not, people in that segment when they buy the car, the numbers mean a lot more. i am not saying a gsf with 480hp can't be fast (if they make one that weighs in at 3600lb, sure). however they simply make their marketing effort and load so heavy it's not even funny. they will have to completely change prospective buyers in this segment, the way they think about how they are spending 90-100k on a fast sedan. very tough

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The LFA is not a bad idea, just got delayed for too long. 560 hp was state of the art/competitive when the development of the LFA was done at 04'~05'. But now at 2011/2012, a $400k exotic needs 600~650 hp to be competitive.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I agreed with you.

The 465hp 5.0L V8 GSF will be on the kinda lame side like the 342 hp GS460. It is cool for what is, but lame compare to all the competitors.

I am glad Lexus is at least making it, so at least I have a choice. E63/M5/RS6 is too expensive as my daily commuter, but I don't want a sedan as my weekend toy.

TF109B

560hp is competitive in it's delivery. Car and Driver tested it against the 599HGTE and chose the LFA over it. It might be 'down on power' but it keeps up just fine, and really, when does anyone ever go 150mph in a sedan? Unless you live near a race track and take your M5 tracking on the weekends, or you live in europe somewhere close to the autobahn. I think the GS-F is going to be made, and it'll be around 500hp. The next IS-F will have at least the power it has now, probably more, maybe 430hp. You've got to differentiate the two cars, why make a GS with 'only' 475hp if your new IS-F is only 50hp behind it? Toyota isn't stupid. I think all these numbers thrown around are guesses and no one knows for certain what they will do. But if they do keep the weight down with carbon fiber, and give it around 500hp, it'll be as fast or faster than any car in the segment. The E63 is as fast as the CTS-V despite being down 40hp on it. I'm interested more in how it performs in the twisty roads, this is where BMW shine. If they make it so the car does this well, there's no reason it won't compete.

CDNROCKIES

+1000000

An $80K GS F with 475 hp would be a complete joke and destroy any building legitimacy of the F brand.

CDNROCKIES

Where is the confirmation this car is actually getting built???

LB23

Oh well, we`ll see.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

No confirmation, just all rumors, speculations and the general direction Lexus is heading.

They made the ISF, LS-Sport, bunch of various F-sport edition cars, LFA.......so Lexus definitely likes to expand the F product range and they have been talking about a GS-F for a long time. It make sense and looks like it will happen.

The LS is not a sporty car, so it make sense that they don't make a LS-F, just like there is no M7, the GS is sporty though, so I am betting they will release a GS-F.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Delivery/power under the curve is the most important of course, car guys know that. But the biggest reason for some people that buy these cars are for bragging rights, so peak power on paper is also very important.

I read that article carefully. If I remember right, the 599 was quicker, the LFA won because the 599 was too soft, too much of a cruiser, believe it or not. The LFA is more racy/exciting to drive.

The LFA is a few hundreds lbs lighter then that HGTE.

Power is not for top speed only

I think they will make it too. Power will be more then ISF, less then 500 hp. The rumor 465 is very likely to be true.

The current GS460 only got 40 hp more then the GS350. AMG E63 only got 67 hp more then the regular C63, and the C63 P30 performance package narrow that gap to 37 hp. So it will be entirely not surprising if the power difference between the ISF and GSF is only 40~50 hp......especially since the motor in the GSF will only be a higher performance version of the same V8 found in the ISF, most likely with the same displacement. For the E9X M3 vs. E60 M5, the power difference was only 80 hp, and that was from 2 totally different motor, 4.0L V8 vs. 5.0L V10.

Of course that would be true. But I don't see how the GSF will have much, if any weight saving material when Toyota is trying to keep the price down.

The E63 is a little lighter and got a 7-speeds tranny, the CTS-V only got a 6-speeds. That's why the E63 is just as fast.

The GSF will be great, but Lexus is not trying to compete at all. The next F10 M5 that is coming out shortly will have at least 580 hp, if not 600 hp. The last RS6 already had 580 hp. And is just a matter of time before AMG put that 5.5L Twin Turbo motor into the E63 with 560+ HP. Even the exotic V10 from the LFA don't even make that much power.