4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
04-22-11, 06:33 AM
#1816
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But I think the execution of the XF is so much better than the GS and that's all that matters. Plus he said his design was finished before the GS came out.
On both counts, that's why nobody is going to bash them. Also, Jaguar are known for their car designs (apart from the Ford era ones), it is a core competency, just the way that many other things are the core competency of Lexus. So it's going to be a very unusual day when Jaguar, a car maker with a heritage of timeless design (I cannot believe how old the XK8 design is), gets bashed for coincidentally looking just a tiny bit like a Lexus when that similarity is such a minor, maybe unfortunate, feature of an overall stunning design.
I went to see one in person wondering whether it would remind me of my GS, and it didn't. Interesting how Callum says he didn't like the GS detailing and he's of course so right. The proportions might be similar but that's where the similarity ends. It's as much as a coincidence as a Japanese SUV being a similar size to a American SUV, yet somehow, with the same proportions, look at the wizardry of Callum and Jaguar compared to the Lexus design.
On both counts, that's why nobody is going to bash them. Also, Jaguar are known for their car designs (apart from the Ford era ones), it is a core competency, just the way that many other things are the core competency of Lexus. So it's going to be a very unusual day when Jaguar, a car maker with a heritage of timeless design (I cannot believe how old the XK8 design is), gets bashed for coincidentally looking just a tiny bit like a Lexus when that similarity is such a minor, maybe unfortunate, feature of an overall stunning design.
I went to see one in person wondering whether it would remind me of my GS, and it didn't. Interesting how Callum says he didn't like the GS detailing and he's of course so right. The proportions might be similar but that's where the similarity ends. It's as much as a coincidence as a Japanese SUV being a similar size to a American SUV, yet somehow, with the same proportions, look at the wizardry of Callum and Jaguar compared to the Lexus design.
Its the double standard. Lexus copies others but seemingly no one copies Lexus, always some excuse.I like the XF design a lot and a lot of it is b/c it reminds me of a stretched GS. Oddly rear seat room isn't much better nor room inside. Ian clearly used the GS design, added a Jag front and an Aston rear. It works well, I think it looks good.
They even offer tri spoke wheels ala the GS 450h on it.
04-22-11, 06:35 AM
#1817
The GS was shown 34 months BEFORE the XJ debuted. Ian Callum knows what influenced him..here is some reading....
Yup. Ian Callum, Jags' head designer who did the XF and did the past Astons loves the GS. He has openly praised it and has been interviewed about the GS/XF similarity before.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sfk...s%20gs&f=false
Funny people bash the hell out of Lexus for copying but not Jaguar. Another lame double standard against Lexus.
http://www.carmiddleeast.com/getPrintDetails-2-567
Yup. Ian Callum, Jags' head designer who did the XF and did the past Astons loves the GS. He has openly praised it and has been interviewed about the GS/XF similarity before.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sfk...s%20gs&f=false
Funny people bash the hell out of Lexus for copying but not Jaguar. Another lame double standard against Lexus.
http://www.carmiddleeast.com/getPrintDetails-2-567
They may well have copied some of the ideas. But Lexus copied too (The quad headlights, the hoffmeister kink on the rear side windows, the wedge shape).
It is not important where the ideas came from, it is more important what you do with the ideas, and Jaguar in its second attempt at the XF has created a stunning beauty unrivaled by the Lexus GS, Lexus LF-Gh, or for that matter by BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
04-22-11, 06:41 AM
#1818
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Man if you value originality over beauty then you are a sorry soul.
They may well have copied some of the ideas. But Lexus copied too (The quad headlights, the hoffmeister kink on the rear side windows, the wedge shape).
It is not important where the ideas came from, it is more important what you do with the ideas, and Jaguar in its second attempt at the XF has created a stunning beauty unrivaled by the Lexus GS, Lexus LF-Gh, or for that matter by BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
They may well have copied some of the ideas. But Lexus copied too (The quad headlights, the hoffmeister kink on the rear side windows, the wedge shape).
It is not important where the ideas came from, it is more important what you do with the ideas, and Jaguar in its second attempt at the XF has created a stunning beauty unrivaled by the Lexus GS, Lexus LF-Gh, or for that matter by BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
The XF isn't really stunning to me, it simply is bigger, longer GS. It is not original though it is beautiful.
04-22-11, 06:58 AM
#1819
And again Lexus gets bashed all the time for "copying" no matter how legitimate the accusation or not. Here is an obvious example of Lexus being copied and its swept under the rug or every excuse in the book is made for it.
The XF isn't really stunning to me, it simply is bigger, longer GS. It is not original though it is beautiful.
The XF isn't really stunning to me, it simply is bigger, longer GS. It is not original though it is beautiful.
Moreover, originality is overrated. The Pontiac Aztek is the most original looking car ever.
Reality is that the automotive industry has such a long-running tradition of design that everything is inspired by something else. What is important is harmony in the execution. The LF-Gh doesn't have that - parts of the car look out of place. Most cars don't have it. The original Jag XF had something funky going on with the front lights (as our GS does). The new XF design has perfect harmony - I can't point at anything and say that is not right.
Last edited by *Batman*; 04-22-11 at 06:26 PM.
04-22-11, 09:28 AM
#1820
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The LF-GH has actually grown on me. Last week I hated it. On Tuesday it was alright. Today I really like it. The GS has been crazy for me. I used to love the second gen GS 10 years ago now its dull IMO (But I still love the first gen). When the 3rd gen came out I was not impressed it took 3 years to grow on me but now I love it. The 4th gen has potential; can't wait to see a production version with a normal grill.
04-22-11, 04:34 PM
#1821
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Lexus hasn't been bashed for copying since the SC. You just have an elephant memory. These days people bash Hyundai and Chrysler for copying.
Originality is overrated. The Pontiac Aztek is the most original looking car ever.
Reality is that the automotive industry has such a long-running tradition of design that everything is inspired by something else. What is important is harmony in the execution. The LF-Gh doesn't have that - parts of the car look out of place. Most cars don't have it. The original Jag XF had something funky going on with the front lights (as our GS does). The new XF design has perfect harmony - I can't point at anything and say that is not right.
Originality is overrated. The Pontiac Aztek is the most original looking car ever.
Reality is that the automotive industry has such a long-running tradition of design that everything is inspired by something else. What is important is harmony in the execution. The LF-Gh doesn't have that - parts of the car look out of place. Most cars don't have it. The original Jag XF had something funky going on with the front lights (as our GS does). The new XF design has perfect harmony - I can't point at anything and say that is not right.
You champion my thoughts! The Jag XF is a clear example of making a slight correction on an already gorgeous design. I now have wet dreams about the 2012 XF. I must find a way to put this in my garage. As for the 4GS...I hope Lexus utilizes all of this discussion controversial as it may be, to tweak this final design properly and make a huge splash. We will all have to wait and see.
04-22-11, 08:12 PM
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You champion my thoughts! The Jag XF is a clear example of making a slight correction on an already gorgeous design. I now have wet dreams about the 2012 XF. I must find a way to put this in my garage. As for the 4GS...I hope Lexus utilizes all of this discussion controversial as it may be, to tweak this final design properly and make a huge splash. We will all have to wait and see.
When I read about electronic glitches and so at one of their forums....
Who cares, its just a wet dream!
04-22-11, 08:41 PM
#1823
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My bad meant XF, not Xj.....to make things more confusing INfintii flips it with FX and a new JX....these letters are getting ridiculous.
Trust me I love the XF design, I'm just sick of the media crapping on Lexus for styling and giving no credit when its been influential. Notice those mags I liked are European, not American mags.
Trust me I love the XF design, I'm just sick of the media crapping on Lexus for styling and giving no credit when its been influential. Notice those mags I liked are European, not American mags.
04-23-11, 03:11 PM
#1824
Mike - I went down to The Collection today to have a look at the Audi A7. The Jaguar bay and the Audi bay are right next together so I saw the A7 parked next to an XJ.
My impressions:
Audi is nowhere near as striking as the Jag XJ. When parked next to each other the Audi looks pretty plain.
The interior of the A7 (which is the same as new A6 interior) seems pretty plain to me. Certainly not on par with the BMW 5 interior. In fact I thought the Infiniti M interior was better than the A7s too. Lot of hard plastics, limited use of wood, few soft touch materials other than leather. Also the nav screen seemed small and low resolution (basically like on the 3GS), compared with latest offerings from BMW.
Almost got talked into buying a Jag XJ supercharged, but managed to keep the checkbook dry.
My impressions:
Audi is nowhere near as striking as the Jag XJ. When parked next to each other the Audi looks pretty plain.
The interior of the A7 (which is the same as new A6 interior) seems pretty plain to me. Certainly not on par with the BMW 5 interior. In fact I thought the Infiniti M interior was better than the A7s too. Lot of hard plastics, limited use of wood, few soft touch materials other than leather. Also the nav screen seemed small and low resolution (basically like on the 3GS), compared with latest offerings from BMW.
Almost got talked into buying a Jag XJ supercharged, but managed to keep the checkbook dry.
04-24-11, 11:46 AM
#1826
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I like the audi telematics the best with the exception of lack of a touchscreen. But the Jag may be good enough.
Hopefully the 2012 GS will be a big leap over the 2011 model, and I will wait to see it before buying an XF or other vehicle. My bias is still towards japanese engineering and reliability.
thx
mike
04-24-11, 10:02 PM
#1827
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When the XF came out a couple of years ago, it looked like a Chinese knock-off of a real Jaguar. The front end was goofy. Now with the 2012 XF, they fixed the front end to what it should have looked like in the first place. To me, that doesn't make it "strikingly beautiful" though. It's a nice design, nothing more.
Fact remains the XF clearly was influenced by the GS, something Callum has admitted. Also with regards to Callum not liking the detailing on the GS, that's very ironic considering the XF IMO has weak detailing as well. The 3GS gets criticized for having bland sides, and guess what, the XF also has bland sides. There is nothing really sporty, aggressive, or even muscular about the XF's sides.
Fact remains the XF clearly was influenced by the GS, something Callum has admitted. Also with regards to Callum not liking the detailing on the GS, that's very ironic considering the XF IMO has weak detailing as well. The 3GS gets criticized for having bland sides, and guess what, the XF also has bland sides. There is nothing really sporty, aggressive, or even muscular about the XF's sides.
04-26-11, 09:35 AM
#1828
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Short but good read
http://blogs.automobilemag.com/toyot...igh-10145.html
Toyota Chief Designer on the Lexus LF-Gh concept: ‘The degree of realism is very high’
Simon Humphries, a Brit who has been in Japan for 21 years, 17 of them with Toyota, is General Manager of Global Design, for both Toyota and Lexus. I spoke with him about the Lexus LF-Gh concept that debuted at the 2011 New York Auto Show.
On the general design theme:
“The LF-Gh was designed in [our Lexus studio in Japan]. The current state of the auto market is that everything is becoming complex and overstyled. With the LF-Gh, we wanted to make something that was fundamentally simple and strong.”
On the already-controversial grille:
“The lower aperture of the grille, we’ve found, is a much better place for air intake, much more efficient, than higher up. From the CT model onwards, the upper grille has lost its functionality. It’s now symbolism. This front face identity will definitely be carried forward into all vehicles, including the next LS.”
On the LF-Gh’s readiness for production:
“This car is a pure concept. Is it producible? Yes. We tried very hard to make sure the proportions and details [were ready for production]. Even our aerodynamic performance has been taken into consideration, and we’ve kept the rear roofline high enough for the rear headroom that’s required in a mid-size luxury sedan like the GS. The degree of realism is very high.”
Please describe the Lexus LF-Gh in three words:
“Bold. Simple. Dynamic. If I’m allowed a fourth word, I’d add intriguing. Some of the elements are very artistic.”
Toyota Chief Designer on the Lexus LF-Gh concept: ‘The degree of realism is very high’
Simon Humphries, a Brit who has been in Japan for 21 years, 17 of them with Toyota, is General Manager of Global Design, for both Toyota and Lexus. I spoke with him about the Lexus LF-Gh concept that debuted at the 2011 New York Auto Show.
On the general design theme:
“The LF-Gh was designed in [our Lexus studio in Japan]. The current state of the auto market is that everything is becoming complex and overstyled. With the LF-Gh, we wanted to make something that was fundamentally simple and strong.”
On the already-controversial grille:
“The lower aperture of the grille, we’ve found, is a much better place for air intake, much more efficient, than higher up. From the CT model onwards, the upper grille has lost its functionality. It’s now symbolism. This front face identity will definitely be carried forward into all vehicles, including the next LS.”
On the LF-Gh’s readiness for production:
“This car is a pure concept. Is it producible? Yes. We tried very hard to make sure the proportions and details [were ready for production]. Even our aerodynamic performance has been taken into consideration, and we’ve kept the rear roofline high enough for the rear headroom that’s required in a mid-size luxury sedan like the GS. The degree of realism is very high.”
Please describe the Lexus LF-Gh in three words:
“Bold. Simple. Dynamic. If I’m allowed a fourth word, I’d add intriguing. Some of the elements are very artistic.”
04-26-11, 01:39 PM
#1829
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6094972-post517.html
Well, looks like my interpretations/guesses of the rumoured grille design back in January might not have been that far off 
.
Interesting, very interesting. Trying to picture what the grille would look like in my mind.
This is my interpretation of what I think it could look like (only focusing on the grille):
Audi grille:
IS F grille:
8 rough interpretations of what 4GS grille could possibly look like IMO:
Interpretation 1:
Interpretation 2:
Interpretation 3:
Interpretation 4:
Interpretation 5:
Interpretation 6:
Interpretation 7:
Interpretation 8:
Quite a lot of tech also being developed by Toyota for Lexus over in Japan, they are just keeping it under wraps.
This is my interpretation of what I think it could look like (only focusing on the grille):
Audi grille:
IS F grille:
8 rough interpretations of what 4GS grille could possibly look like IMO:
Interpretation 1:
Interpretation 2:
Interpretation 3:
Interpretation 4:
Interpretation 5:
Interpretation 6:
Interpretation 7:
Interpretation 8:
Quite a lot of tech also being developed by Toyota for Lexus over in Japan, they are just keeping it under wraps.
.
04-26-11, 04:48 PM
#1830
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Mike - I went down to The Collection today to have a look at the Audi A7. The Jaguar bay and the Audi bay are right next together so I saw the A7 parked next to an XJ.
My impressions:
Audi is nowhere near as striking as the Jag XJ. When parked next to each other the Audi looks pretty plain.
The interior of the A7 (which is the same as new A6 interior) seems pretty plain to me. Certainly not on par with the BMW 5 interior. In fact I thought the Infiniti M interior was better than the A7s too. Lot of hard plastics, limited use of wood, few soft touch materials other than leather. Also the nav screen seemed small and low resolution (basically like on the 3GS), compared with latest offerings from BMW.
Almost got talked into buying a Jag XJ supercharged, but managed to keep the checkbook dry.
My impressions:
Audi is nowhere near as striking as the Jag XJ. When parked next to each other the Audi looks pretty plain.
The interior of the A7 (which is the same as new A6 interior) seems pretty plain to me. Certainly not on par with the BMW 5 interior. In fact I thought the Infiniti M interior was better than the A7s too. Lot of hard plastics, limited use of wood, few soft touch materials other than leather. Also the nav screen seemed small and low resolution (basically like on the 3GS), compared with latest offerings from BMW.
Almost got talked into buying a Jag XJ supercharged, but managed to keep the checkbook dry.
I liked the XF as soon as I saw it for the same reason I liked the 3GS as I like the overall shape, flow of both.