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meant 3gs.

GS69

More Power, Style in Store for Lexus GS

Plans to drop the Lexus LFA's 552-horsepower, 4.8-liter V-10 into the engine bay of the new Lexus GS-F are off, though the F variant is not. The LFA's engine, we hear, would have cost "far more than half the price" of the GS-F, which we expect to launch about a year after the '12 GS line's late 2011 introduction. The most likely scenario is that the GS-F will get the IS-F's thoroughly competent 416-horsepower, 5.0-liter V-8, instead, and provide an extra slab of meat to Lexus' F performance lineup, which now consists only of the IS-F.

Like BMW with its 3, 5 and 7 Series, the GS is on a longer version of a rear-drive platform that's shared with the IS.

Lexus chose not to preview the '12 GS with a performance version, but with the hybrid LF-Gh concept, unveiled at the New York show, instead. While the LF-Gh is laden with concept-car nonsense, the basic look, including the Bangle-esque flame surfacing, is not. It portends more stylish future Lexi, as the brand tries to shed its bland, Japanese design image. Cues like the flame surfacing and the nose have already appeared on the production Lexus CT hybrid. The concept's nose reflects Lexus' move away from traditional grilles in favor of graphic design.

Look for Lexus to continue to offer V-6 and V-8 power in non-F GS models, and to expand all-wheel drive as an option throughout the model's lineup.

SaintNexus

Lemme get this straight. The new GS is being released Late 2011, and the GSF a year later?

And the GSF is getting the ISF engine with just 416 hp? Epic Fail.

LexFather

Well that is exactly what some of us said, the LFA engine costs way to much for this car. I hope this is true that V-6 and V-8 models are coming in non F modes. The GS F will clearly need a big bump from the 416hp from the IS F which was solid in 2008 but clearly no big deal in 2013/2014.

Glad to hear GS F noise....

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

No one listen to us, they all just dreaming of the GSF coming with a 600 hp Twin Turbo V8 like in the M5.

Cost is one thing, I think the biggest issue is if the GSF got the same V10, even a detuned version of it, that would make the LFA much less exclusive.

Like how the Audi S6/S8 got a version of the V10 from the R8/Gallardo, making the R8/Gallardo feel less special. R8 is ok, is only a $160k car......but you really don't want to take anything away from the $375k LFA that is suffering brand image issue at that level.

My educated guess are:

If Lexus wants to keep up or be a little ahead of the competition:

GS370 330 hp 3.7L V6
GS500 416 hp 5.0L V8 (Current ISF motor)
GS-F 465 hp 5.0L V8 (Current ISF motor crank up a little)

If Lexus wants to continue to be lame and be a little behind:

GS360 320 hp 3.6L V6
GS460 381 hp 4.6L V8 (Current LS460 motor)
GS-F 416 hp 5.0L V8 (Current ISF motor)

Either way though, I am just glad they are making a GS-F.

RXSF

I think its going to be

GS350: 330hp
GS460: the full 381
GS-F: hopefully the 5.0 can put out at least 480

G Star

iTrader: (2)

How is it an epic fail?

As we all know from the LFA, high HP figures is not the be all-end all of performance cars. We may very well see some lighter weight applications, and focus on driver feeling, comfort, control and overall balance and attention to the details than just a straight line super acceleration and HP #'s.



I completely agree, just glad to see Lexus expanding the lineup, going with more F action. What we have seen from the LFA thus far, we know what Lexus is capable of. Take what they did with the IS-F and apply a new generation to it, I think it will be very in-your-face and very competitive.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I just need a bigger IS-F cause that cabin is way too tiny for me

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i can't really understand the notion of "just be happy that lexus has a gsf". yeah it's good if they make a gsf, but if it's not going to compete or stack up well with m5 and e63, what good does that do for lexus? nothing. in fact, it will probably help to kill the f-line.

the isf goes very well against m3 and e63, it gained lexus respect and positioned the f line. the lfa, although i think it's so much of a halo car, does help to strengthen that name tag. but if the gsf falls short of going head to head with m5 and e63, it would suck. i have said quite a few times, customers in this segment willing to pay 100k for the car, as much as i don't like it, hp is quite important to them. that's part of their bragging right. performance is important but it's hardly the top criteria, a lot of people in this segment they don't even know how to push their cars correctly.

so i still think lexus has to do it carefully and smartly. otherwise, we will see the whole l-tuned mess all over again. just because they do it doesn't mean it's alright. just because lexus decided to put together the isc doesn't mean make it any prettier. just because lexus decided to make an all eco hybrid doesn't make the HS fail any less

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Amen

I just feel that F models are coming out so slowly, I am just glad it is coming out at all.

Now that all the 550i, M5, E550, E63 are all Twin Turbo V8, let's hope that one rumor of Lexus developed a Twin Turbo V8 is true. We need that motor in EVERYTHING

Then the excitment of the 300 hp GS400 from 1998 will be back

Gojirra99

A GS-F with less than 500 hp just won't make it, and don't even argue how light they are going to make it, it's not going to be very light no matter what to be enough to make up for the lack of hp compared to the E63 and M5 ..... I would rather see them not make a F variant at all ......

LexFather

I will disagree b/c many of these cars are not tracked, not driven hard and owned by people with the means to buy it but not some enthusiast only club. We both know tons of these cars are bought by people who just want the top of the line model to be "cool".

The IS F didn't really set a new benchmark, it just offered the Lexus way of a high end sport saloon. The Lexus way meant great brakes, BBS wheels, great interior, RELIABLE, great sound and other attributes. The IS F is the only one without a gas guzzler tax. It also gave people who were happy with Japanese brands an option to go to. We have a large amount of ex INfniit drivers in an IS F for instance. If you want a Japanese super sport saloon, your only option is the IS F, likely to be joined by the GS F. You also have a bunch of Lexus owners that would like to stick to the brand who cannot b/c no GS F is offered. I believe once its not completely lame, they will buy that car even if its down on power.

Lets be honest the LFA for all its superbness does't set any performance benchmark either and its 375k. How can you? The mark moves seemingly every month. I think Lexus should offer higher power but not lose reliability in that process. We know the IS F has been as reliable as the best of any Lexus.

I mean the RS6 in Europe makes 572hp for what 3 year now. So even the new M5/E63 hasn't beat that mark. Yet the RS6 hasn't won one comparison.

I'm not getting my hopes up for a 500-550hp GS F. If it happen that is great. If it doesn't oh well. I'd be happy with 450-500hp in a GS F.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

no doubt, i also think the f models come out a bit slow. should have come out with gsf sooner, but then my guess is they can't get the current 3gs platform to work. keep in mind they had enough trouble fitting the 460 engine in already back in 2007.

timing is also odd for lexus. sc was going out so making scf didn't make sense. and there is no way they would come out with lsf (yet). i am sure we don't need to mention about rxf and esf

so all in all, i think next yr (for 2013 model) is acceptable to me, but only if they are doing it right

rominl

iTrader: (4)

in no way am i expecting the gsf (nor isf and lfa for that matter) to set any benchmark at all. sorry to say, but i don't think lexus is there yet. however, i do think the isf offer a very very competitive performance vehicle against where it belongs.

let me ask this. if hp is really that unimportant, why did lexus choose to release the isf at "400+ hp" and then later make it just above the hp number of m3, and stated that it had the most power in its segment (as one of their promotion line) until mb decided to screw things up by doing the 450hp c63?

like i stated in my post, most of the owners in this segment they don't really know how to drive (and i mean it). after going to m school, i know it very clearly. after seeing how some of these people drive, it can't be any clearer.

however, that's exactly where the problem is. the small crowd who has 100k to spare, want reliability over performance (??), and go after japanese heritage? honestly to me that sounds like trying to create a segment for the heck of it just so lexus can fit right in with the gsf.

if lexus is even seriously about the purpose of the f line, they are trying to go head to head with the euro on their lineup. there is no denial on that intention given their approach with the isf marketing. if that's what they want to play, then they need to play along the line, otherwise magazines will continue to unfortunately put the gsf together with e63 and m5 and the gsf will be in not-so-good situation. i think the key is to face the reality of what lexus is trying to position themselves against, what they need to do to gain market (not taking over the market), and how others are going to look at it (not the small crowd).

and another way i look at your message, if most of the people in this segment (those writing the checks, not the one talking about the cars) can't really drive and they want the cars for the cool factors, then what make the gsf anywhere attractive when it doesn't have close to competitive power?

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I think the way I see it, even if the GS-F only got 416 hp from the IS-F, I still would glad it exist so I can buy a GS from the factory with all the F equipments........Brembos, sport seats, metal padels, aggressive body work/wheels/suspension.......etc.

I see it as better then nothing. However lame it might seem compare to the M5/E63, is still way more aggressive then a GS460.

But I understand you guy's point of if it is lame, don't make it at all.

Another point is, once they make one model of the GS-F, even if this one is down on power, there will be the next one. If they don't make one at all, they might never make one.