4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
#2371
Lexus Connoisseur
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I completely disagree. The GS460 equipped with standard AVS, standard VGRS, with optional F-Sport sways and Sport Summer tires is very good to drive, and I would say is the best after the BMW 5 series in this segment. Most of my friends who only drive European cars, are completely shocked by how good the Lexus handles when I give them a shot at the wheel.
- Throttle response is great compared with most brands
- The dynamic electric steering does a great job of increasing weight and feel during high speed cornering, yet remains light for low speed parking maneuvers
- The AVS holds the car reasonably flat in corners, and cars which also have APSS are even more flat. But the basic AVS version already has very little body roll in high speed cornering.
- Throttle response is great compared with most brands
- The dynamic electric steering does a great job of increasing weight and feel during high speed cornering, yet remains light for low speed parking maneuvers
- The AVS holds the car reasonably flat in corners, and cars which also have APSS are even more flat. But the basic AVS version already has very little body roll in high speed cornering.
AVS is nice but the setup is not worth the extra cost for only 2 standard settings. Although I do like the option from going from NORM to SPORT setting..the difference is very negligible on a real performance scale. A better suited set of adjustable coilovers or f-sport springs mated with the f sport shocks do a better job in performance. Although not compatible with the GS460/450h...you're stuck unless you totally swap the whole suspensions for a coilover system which has greater dampening variability.
VGRS is nothing but an electronic control that artificially amplifies steering feel and works in conjunction with VDIM. The steering in the GS is vague across the board, 300, 350,450h, 430/460. It was designed for luxurious comfort...not good road feel. Variable assist power steering has been a standard feature on lexus models for a pretty long time...some tuned a little heavier than others, but a lot of factors weigh in...especially tire selections and suspension/steering design. Electric power steering units are notorious for feeling disconnected in comparison to conventional power steering units. The LS has VGRS...but it still doesn't handle any better. Like all technology, time and development will help improve it. My ISF and the LFA are prime examples of this. My IS F's steering feels great, but the steering is still not on par compared to the benchmarks in its class.
Active Stabilizer Suspension System (****) is a great system but an electronic motor to pre-torque the rear sway is nice but not worth the extra cost (approx $2-3k i forgot the exact amount). Upgraded F-Sport sways do just as good of a job if not better, for a lot less, and you don't get forced on with runflat tires and lose the use of your spare tire well:
![](http://www.flipside909.com/gallery/albums/061208gs460/IMG_2032.jpg)
The GS350 comes with soft suspension, junk tires (rated 3 out of 10 by tire rack users), and without the active suspension package, the steering is not variable assist, so this combination of factors makes the base model less driver oriented.
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First off no Lexus 3rd generation GS has any kind of "Active Suspension" package. So saying you have one on your 3rd gen GS is a flat out lie. The only Lexus models with a true "active" suspension package are LS models with air suspension, GX Premium and LX. These models continuously adjust suspension height according to load balance and speed. The LS has a 2 standard dampening (Norm/Sport) and also a HIGH HEIGHT (which raises the car). The LS' dampening works like AVS in the GS, but is all controlled by air pressure in the bag not mechanical shock valve dampening.
**** (Active Stabilizer Suspension System, not to be confused with an "active suspension package") was available for 450h/460 but in very limited quantities. Yes the GS350 comes with a standard non adjustable suspension. The GS350 did have an option for ADAPTIVE VARIABLE SUSPENSION (again AVS..not to be confused with a real "Active Suspension System", starting in 2008). As for standard handling, the GS handles equal to the GS460's AVS NORM setting. The power steering on all Lexus vehicles are variable assist...it just has no VGRS to artificially amplify the feel. I have driven every configuration of 3rd gen GS from GS300 AWD all the way to GS460 with ****. They have their subtle differences but they are all the same...uninspiring to drive. I thought hard about buying my GS 350 late in 2007 and waiting for an 08 GS 460 instead. But in all practicality, I didn't find the extra $11k (my car stickered just under 52k) for mediocre engine performance, lesser gas mileage and a few odds and ends that came standard on the 460 worth the money. The GS 450h in comparison is faster than the GS 460...especially off the line. The first 3 short gears in the GS 460's 8 speed auto hamper its performance. Initial acceleration in the GS 460 is really slow. Blame that on the 342hp.
This MT test comparison a few years ago summed it up best on the GS460. Vague:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUDSZIih3D0
Last edited by flipside909; 07-10-11 at 04:42 PM.
#2372
Lexus Connoisseur
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M5 and 997 are tuned performance cars...they are not even in the same category of comparison. Maybe compare a comparable 545/550 with the GS460. The 5 series is more fun to drive than the GS460.
#2373
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You know I had a bunch of responses written but I realized I'm repeating the same **** over and over and quite frankly I'm a little tired of correcting misinformation.
Gonna just wait for the car to debut, hear more complaining and hear more complaining.![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
I am going to say for goodness sakes, the GS 430 debuted with 300hp, not 295 and again until recently the 3GS sold 3rd best in class after the 5/E.
Utterly frustrating to re-read the same things over and over.
Gonna just wait for the car to debut, hear more complaining and hear more complaining.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
I am going to say for goodness sakes, the GS 430 debuted with 300hp, not 295 and again until recently the 3GS sold 3rd best in class after the 5/E.
Utterly frustrating to re-read the same things over and over.
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#2374
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regarding driving, well, i guess it all depends on what each individual is looking for. when i had the ls460l, every time i got into the STOCK gs350 and i told myself damn this thing is fun to drive. however now having the m3, and driven a lot of higher performance cars, driving my MODDED gs350 doesn't excite me one bit anymore. sorry but it's just a form of transportation for me now.
in fact, just the other day i had to take my wife and baby in the gs350, and i was commenting to my wife how the steering wheel is not as precise as a lot of other cars i have driven, loose, and pointing everywhere.
however, i never purchased the gs350 with "fun to drive" in my mind anyway, that would have been a very stupid mistake. i got the gs350 for his overall balance on driving conditions. smoother than most other rides, a little bit of sportiness, and good navigation / sound system.
factory system wise, avs and vgrs imho are more about marketing than real performance gain. they are both marginal changes. apsss is awesome stuff (again, all driving conditions considered) and probably the only handling option i have no problem paying for. but still, after driving other factory performance vehicles, my conclusion is that the root of driving dynamics can't change with mods. no matter what i do to the gs350 (or 460), i can't make it into a 550i sport, or m5, for that matter.
that's pretty much where i set my expectation on fun to drive vs sensible buys. i am sure the next guy will be different.
#2375
#2376
Lexus Connoisseur
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factory system wise, avs and vgrs imho are more about marketing than real performance gain. they are both marginal changes. apsss is awesome stuff (again, all driving conditions considered) and probably the only handling option i have no problem paying for. but still, after driving other factory performance vehicles, my conclusion is that the root of driving dynamics can't change with mods. no matter what i do to the gs350 (or 460), i can't make it into a 550i sport, or m5, for that matter.
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If the whole platform doesn't drive great as a whole (and everyones standards are different), no amount of electronic gadgets, mods and imaginary active suspension packages are going to truly fix the car's flaws. Period.
#2379
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sorry mike but i will also remind it's a distant 3rd
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regarding driving, well, i guess it all depends on what each individual is looking for. when i had the ls460l, every time i got into the STOCK gs350 and i told myself damn this thing is fun to drive. however now having the m3, and driven a lot of higher performance cars, driving my MODDED gs350 doesn't excite me one bit anymore. sorry but it's just a form of transportation for me now.
in fact, just the other day i had to take my wife and baby in the gs350, and i was commenting to my wife how the steering wheel is not as precise as a lot of other cars i have driven, loose, and pointing everywhere.
however, i never purchased the gs350 with "fun to drive" in my mind anyway, that would have been a very stupid mistake. i got the gs350 for his overall balance on driving conditions. smoother than most other rides, a little bit of sportiness, and good navigation / sound system.
factory system wise, avs and vgrs imho are more about marketing than real performance gain. they are both marginal changes. apsss is awesome stuff (again, all driving conditions considered) and probably the only handling option i have no problem paying for. but still, after driving other factory performance vehicles, my conclusion is that the root of driving dynamics can't change with mods. no matter what i do to the gs350 (or 460), i can't make it into a 550i sport, or m5, for that matter.
that's pretty much where i set my expectation on fun to drive vs sensible buys. i am sure the next guy will be different.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
regarding driving, well, i guess it all depends on what each individual is looking for. when i had the ls460l, every time i got into the STOCK gs350 and i told myself damn this thing is fun to drive. however now having the m3, and driven a lot of higher performance cars, driving my MODDED gs350 doesn't excite me one bit anymore. sorry but it's just a form of transportation for me now.
in fact, just the other day i had to take my wife and baby in the gs350, and i was commenting to my wife how the steering wheel is not as precise as a lot of other cars i have driven, loose, and pointing everywhere.
however, i never purchased the gs350 with "fun to drive" in my mind anyway, that would have been a very stupid mistake. i got the gs350 for his overall balance on driving conditions. smoother than most other rides, a little bit of sportiness, and good navigation / sound system.
factory system wise, avs and vgrs imho are more about marketing than real performance gain. they are both marginal changes. apsss is awesome stuff (again, all driving conditions considered) and probably the only handling option i have no problem paying for. but still, after driving other factory performance vehicles, my conclusion is that the root of driving dynamics can't change with mods. no matter what i do to the gs350 (or 460), i can't make it into a 550i sport, or m5, for that matter.
that's pretty much where i set my expectation on fun to drive vs sensible buys. i am sure the next guy will be different.
As for driving dynamics your post is on point and I am also fine with my car, I know where its opportunities lie and I still bought it. The fact of the matter is for all the fapping about sport this and that the VAST MAJORITY OF THIS CLASS are non-sport sold cars, not V-8 cars and not AMG etc models. They are base cars driven to work, the mall and driven leisurely.
Sorry but its hard to take an opinion serious and see as anything other than a good "Rant(s at this point as this is now being said over and over in now different forums and threads here) when something as simple as the original HP rating is wrong.
#2382
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As for driving dynamics your post is on point and I am also fine with my car, I know where its opportunities lie and I still bought it. The fact of the matter is for all the fapping about sport this and that the VAST MAJORITY OF THIS CLASS are non-sport sold cars, not V-8 cars and not AMG etc models. They are base cars driven to work, the mall and driven leisurely.
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#2384
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Your views have no explanation of why the share of the GS V8 collapsed when the previous GS400/430 sold quite well.
#2385
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AVS is nice but the setup is not worth the extra cost for only 2 standard settings. Although I do like the option from going from NORM to SPORT setting..the difference is very negligible on a real performance scale. A better suited set of adjustable coilovers or f-sport springs mated with the f sport shocks do a better job in performance. Although not compatible with the GS460/450h...you're stuck unless you totally swap the whole suspensions for a coilover system which has greater dampening variability.
This MT test comparison a few years ago summed it up best on the GS460. Vague:
This MT test comparison a few years ago summed it up best on the GS460. Vague:
I feel like a broken record here, but there must be some option that changes the steering feel on certain models. The steering on my 2006 feels sportier than my 2010. Then again, the 2010 is still fun to drive with the extra power.
Last edited by jre002; 07-10-11 at 07:44 PM.