4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
07-18-11, 02:13 PM
#2611
agreed. but the 3gs suffered big time on front cabin shoulder / head room, rear cabin space in every dimension, and also the trunk. i guess that pushes things in one direction 
but then again, the 2gs was not bad at all, very spacious. so i always blame lexus for their wrong use of space in the 3gs.
but then again, the 2gs was not bad at all, very spacious. so i always blame lexus for their wrong use of space in the 3gs.The 4GS looks like is a little bigger in dimensions, but the overall shape is pretty much the same as the 3GS, so the interior space will be similarly tight. Increasing the wheelbase only give you more leg room, the problem here required rising the roof up and making the upper portion of the body wider, which would make it look like a box.
Most stylish sedans came out after 2006 suffer the same issue, sacrificing interior space for coupe styling. The ones on top of my head are: Infiniti M-series, Jaguar XJ, MB CLS-class......etc.
07-18-11, 02:25 PM
#2612
The only difficult part is to figure out how to lower the cost.
Look at the LFA, it got every features and luxuries every Lexus have and it is lightweight. Every major car companies is working on how to make a main stream mass produced production car out of carbon fiber inexpensively right now. Lexus today can make a GS460 the same way as a LFA and the GS460 can weight 3000 lbs, but the MSRP would be $200k.
It is coming slowly but surely. 20 years ago, an all carbon fiber Mclaren F1 was $1 million. 10 years ago, the all carbon Ferrari Enzo was $650k. Now a 2011 MP4-12C is made in a similar way and cost only $250k. Give it 10~20 more years, an all carbon 3000 lbs BMW M3 will be available for $80k.
This is a main focus of Gordon Murray constantly, is how to lower the cost of carbon fiber manufacturing.
Last edited by BNR34; 07-18-11 at 02:34 PM.
07-18-11, 02:29 PM
#2613
The very tight spaces inside the 3GS is due to the L-finesse styling, you can see it on the outside how spaces are sacrificed by the styling, is because of the low and fast curvy coupe like roof line and how the upper portion of the body is curved-in. Stylish = no space, boxy = spacious. This is why I drive the most boxy of all Lexus......LS430
The 4GS looks like is a little bigger in dimensions, but the overall shape is pretty much the same as the 3GS, so the interior space will be similarly tight. Increasing the wheelbase only give you more leg room, the problem here required rising the roof up and making the upper portion of the body wider, which would make it look like a box.
Most stylish sedans came out after 2006 suffer the same issue, sacrificing interior space for coupe styling. The ones on top of my head are: Infiniti M-series, Jaguar XJ, MB CLS-class......etc.
The 4GS looks like is a little bigger in dimensions, but the overall shape is pretty much the same as the 3GS, so the interior space will be similarly tight. Increasing the wheelbase only give you more leg room, the problem here required rising the roof up and making the upper portion of the body wider, which would make it look like a box.
Most stylish sedans came out after 2006 suffer the same issue, sacrificing interior space for coupe styling. The ones on top of my head are: Infiniti M-series, Jaguar XJ, MB CLS-class......etc.
07-18-11, 02:49 PM
#2614
I would have purchased hybrid, then my cousin sent me pic of sheet of A4 paper in the trunk of GS450h, and it seemed like it filled it up :P
07-18-11, 02:53 PM
#2615
You are right, it is true that weight is a huge enermy of every aspect of a car's performance. I am not saying weight is irrelevant, it is one of the most important factor on a car, but right now the technology is not there to make a huge car with tons of features light weight inexpensively yet, it will come eventually.
Acceleration can be compensated by more power. And bad handling is just due to suspension tuning, the 3850 lbs Nissan GTR is one of the best handling car in the world right now, go drive one, it feels like it is 2000 lbs, very light on it's feet.
The F10 got more sluggish handling then the E60/E39 is due to BMW changing their suspension tuning style, not because the car is heavier. Every latest BMW model's suspension have been made softer to dulled out responses. It is a big mystery as to why BMW would do that, as excellent handling is always been the trade mark of BMW. Maybe some marketing research is telling BMW more comfort would sell more cars.
Again, it is not the weight, is the suspension. The Nissan GTR weight the same as your GS350, it smoked just about every cars around a corner
Again, it is not the weight, is the suspension. The Nissan GTR weight the same as your GS350, it smoked just about every cars around a corner
Last edited by BNR34; 07-18-11 at 02:58 PM.
07-18-11, 03:13 PM
#2618
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07-18-11, 03:37 PM
#2621
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It is not difficult, just very expensive. It just means everything have to be made out of carbon fiber, the technology existed for 20 years now, Gordon Murray invented it and introduced it on the Mclaren F1 in 1992.
The only difficult part is to figure out how to lower the cost.
The only difficult part is to figure out how to lower the cost.
07-18-11, 04:57 PM
#2622
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean Gordon Murray invented CFRP, but he was the 1st person who apply CFRP to automotive application. He did it on a F1 racer 1st back in the early 80s, then apply it to the Mclaren F1 road car in the 90s.
You just described the cost issue
They know how to make an entire car out of CFRP at a high cost, as seen by Mclaren F1/MP4-12C, Enzo and Carrera GT, they just don't know how to mass produce it to make it cheaply for a car under $200k.
Curing cancer is not a cost issue, they just don't know how to do it regardless of cost.
They know how to make an entire car out of CFRP at a high cost, as seen by Mclaren F1/MP4-12C, Enzo and Carrera GT, they just don't know how to mass produce it to make it cheaply for a car under $200k.
Curing cancer is not a cost issue, they just don't know how to do it regardless of cost.
Last edited by BNR34; 07-18-11 at 06:12 PM.
07-18-11, 05:55 PM
#2623
Lexus Fanatic
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because it has 14cu. ft.? it is also offered with optional rear folding seats however, a HUGE win! 
don't you already have a swagger wagon in addition to the gs anyway? 
07-18-11, 06:18 PM
#2625
there is some weird difference between euro and us measurements... for instance there is 8% difference between e-class and f10. But in US, it is double, even though I am sure trunks are exactly the same as in europe.
so maybe us ratings require it being more practical or something, have no idea :-)
edit: i looked at trunks of both, and yeah, E-class has very usable space, while BMW in Europe probably counts little cubbies on the sides where you cant really put large items in.
So I would consider 14cu.ft. good enough for Lexus but hope for practical trunk...