4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
07-23-11, 02:01 PM
#2881
Lexus definitively didnt copy BMW gauges, it is classic japanese clean design, has nothing to do BMW at all. There is large LED screen inside as well. Overall it is very Lexus with optitron gauges.
But i dont think they need to make it all colorful as they already have 12.3" high res screen to take your attention.
07-23-11, 02:23 PM
#2883
Guest
Posts: n/a
Agreed, good eye. I think the dash and doors have some LFA influence.
07-23-11, 02:37 PM
#2886
You know what's higher grade than plastic? Stitched leather (and industry standard Lexus leather at that). Like the stitched leather used to cover a lot of the areas on the 2012 GS that are plastic in the A6. This is in addition to using real metal and real wood just like every other car in this segment. In the GS stitched leather also happens to surround an LCD display that is almost twice the size of that in the A6 (which has its tiny display surrounded by plastic).
As far as plastic itself goes, check out the multimedia area on the A6, where the discs are inserted. What is it surrounded by? Swaths of shiny matte black hard plastic! What is the GS' surrounded by? Grained and likely soft plastic (though at least it's grained)! It's like the softer beige plastic surrounding the edges of the media area on the A6 but a lot more of it is used on the GS versus the hard matte stuff.
Where the A6 does use leather, like on the door panels, it is not stitched like in the GS (and given traditional Audi leather, probably not as soft or high quality either).
Then you have industry leading Mark Levinson sound to round out the interior, plus I prefer remote touch with haptic feedback over MMI.
Perhaps you can enlighten me on where and how the A6's interior is so much better than the GS.
Moving beyond the interior, the GS is RWD vs the FWD A6. The engine is naturally aspirated and will likely be far more reliable. It is also lighter than the A6. Here I'm finding it difficult to justify an A6 over the GS based on what we know so far. Perhaps you can assist me with this as well.
I agree here. I think BMW is doing it the best right now, followed by Mercedes and Audi. With this new GS though if you want similar finishing in a BMW you have to step up to a 7 series.
As far as plastic itself goes, check out the multimedia area on the A6, where the discs are inserted. What is it surrounded by? Swaths of shiny matte black hard plastic! What is the GS' surrounded by? Grained and likely soft plastic (though at least it's grained)! It's like the softer beige plastic surrounding the edges of the media area on the A6 but a lot more of it is used on the GS versus the hard matte stuff.
Where the A6 does use leather, like on the door panels, it is not stitched like in the GS (and given traditional Audi leather, probably not as soft or high quality either).
Then you have industry leading Mark Levinson sound to round out the interior, plus I prefer remote touch with haptic feedback over MMI.
Perhaps you can enlighten me on where and how the A6's interior is so much better than the GS.
Moving beyond the interior, the GS is RWD vs the FWD A6. The engine is naturally aspirated and will likely be far more reliable. It is also lighter than the A6. Here I'm finding it difficult to justify an A6 over the GS based on what we know so far. Perhaps you can assist me with this as well.
I agree here. I think BMW is doing it the best right now, followed by Mercedes and Audi. With this new GS though if you want similar finishing in a BMW you have to step up to a 7 series.
I'm referring to Lexus vs. Audi in general. To get specific, look at all of Audi's "R" models...and tell me how Lexus' "F" models compare in interior quality and design (with the exception of LFA that costs $400k)???
07-23-11, 02:44 PM
#2887
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There is only one F model and it is the IS-F. Audi doesn't have an RS4 at the moment. And the LFA's interior is highly superior to that of the R8.
07-23-11, 02:49 PM
#2888
Lexus Champion
In my post that you first quoted a couple of pages back I was referring specifically to the A6 interior vs the 2012 GS.
The CT and GS represent a new direction for Lexus interiors, and each has the best finished interior in its class. There is stitched leather covering a portion of the $30k CT dash, the Germans don't put it in their $50k midsize luxury sedans, let alone their entry products. Heck you have to option genuine leather on seating surfaces with the E-class otherwise you get their MBtech surfacing.
Lexus only has one "F" model and it's based on the 5 year old IS.
07-23-11, 03:15 PM
#2889
Lexus Champion
Wow, this is absolutely ridiculous, boarding on fanboy territory. I respect Lexus as much as the next guy here, but seriously? The current GS and IS have hard plastics EVERYWHERE. The current Audi A4 and even the last gen A6 had best in class interiors. You seem to be the only one to think otherwise. You are basically the only one that thinks the B8 Audi A4 is at the back of the class in terms of interior.
Cool fact for you, just because it says Lexus doesn't make it amazing...
What's funny is that people here are completely smitten by the interior and are ignoring the blatant German ripoff interior. I prefer the German-esque interior, so I'm happy, but you guys are acting like its Jesus Christ. Audi had similar interior design years ago
Cool fact for you, just because it says Lexus doesn't make it amazing...
What's funny is that people here are completely smitten by the interior and are ignoring the blatant German ripoff interior. I prefer the German-esque interior, so I'm happy, but you guys are acting like its Jesus Christ. Audi had similar interior design years ago
It's not about Lexus, it's about Audi. I am simply not impressed with their interiors, design or quality. I also don't see any single compelling reason to choose one over either the other two Germans or Lexus. Feel free to give me a couple though.
07-23-11, 03:20 PM
#2890
Lexus Champion
So what you're saying is that stitched leather makes it a more luxurious car? Well, both BMW and Audi offer leather stitched dashes, etc for extra coin. Obviously, I don't think they could be charging for this, but they offer it.
Just because the screen is better doesn't make it better. Look at resolution. Even at current BMW 10 inches, the new MMI blows iDrive out of the window in terms of resolution. Need I remind you MMI Touch and Google integration blows Remote Touch (an obvious German infotainment ripoff) out of the water?
I love how you're going about looking at interior materials microscopically over a computer screen. I can assure you the Audi A6 interior is soft touch everywhere with rubberized finishes. No cheap feeling plastic. This is a $50k+ car. Not a Toyota.
Now we're onto Mark Levinson. It isn't industry leading anymore. Sure it was the best when the LS came out back in 07?, but not anymore. Audi's Bang and Olufsen/Porsche's Burnmester systems are quite superior to those in any Lexus car.
Not trying to nitpick, but it seems blind Lexus love is keeping you from considering every car equally. Just because it has 4 rings doesn't make it amazing. Just because it has an L, 3 pointed star, roundel on the front, doesn't make it the best. There is not even one review, etc that has considered any Audi interior, especially the new A6/7's interior cheap feeling.
All the cars in this segment (besides the new E) are quite amazing in their own regard.
Just because the screen is better doesn't make it better. Look at resolution. Even at current BMW 10 inches, the new MMI blows iDrive out of the window in terms of resolution. Need I remind you MMI Touch and Google integration blows Remote Touch (an obvious German infotainment ripoff) out of the water?
I love how you're going about looking at interior materials microscopically over a computer screen. I can assure you the Audi A6 interior is soft touch everywhere with rubberized finishes. No cheap feeling plastic. This is a $50k+ car. Not a Toyota.
Now we're onto Mark Levinson. It isn't industry leading anymore. Sure it was the best when the LS came out back in 07?, but not anymore. Audi's Bang and Olufsen/Porsche's Burnmester systems are quite superior to those in any Lexus car.
Not trying to nitpick, but it seems blind Lexus love is keeping you from considering every car equally. Just because it has 4 rings doesn't make it amazing. Just because it has an L, 3 pointed star, roundel on the front, doesn't make it the best. There is not even one review, etc that has considered any Audi interior, especially the new A6/7's interior cheap feeling.
All the cars in this segment (besides the new E) are quite amazing in their own regard.
That matte black plastic does not look rubberized and plastic no matter how soft is still not leather. Remote touch vs MMI, your preference. Though Lexus displays have always had excellent resolution.
Based on what we've seen so far with the GS are you suggesting that its interior is not a step above the A6? In what way is the A6 interior superior? Overrated is how I see Audis. Everyone is riding the bandwagon. I'm not saying the interiors are cheap, just that they're nothing special in their respective classes.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 07-23-11 at 03:24 PM.
New Flash
07-23-11, 03:38 PM
#2892
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guys, that is still a pre-production GS interior with tape on it. Lets wait for the production car.
Why can't both cars have great interiors? I like both. Both will use high quality materials. Both are executed differently. Its not like one interior is horrendous or anything.
If ANYTHING Lexus/Audi have led with interiors for quite sometime now and the others have finally caught up. Kudos to both Lexus and Audi with their interiors.
I'll be honest I stopped at "more sturdy sheetmetal".
You forgot to mention the A4 is a FWD I-4 car in its basic form, the IS is a RWD, 6 cylinder car in basic form. The A4 is 5 inches longer but the backseat ain't much better.
Fuel economy is the same, if you are saying the A4 gets 1 MPG better with a 4 cylinder over a 6 cylinder, well it gained 1 MPG and lost 2 cylinders.
Most everything else you stated is your opinion. The A4 looks like any Audi sedan the last 30 years, as imaginative and creative as the bland Camry everyone craps on in regards to styling. The IS still looks fresh and crisp 6 years later. I find both handsome and simply different takes on execution, the IS designers were allowed to think, the Audi ones got a longer sheet of paper to draw the same thing.
Both cars have pluses and minues and NEITHER IS OR A4 is in the thread title so lets all get back on the 4GS please.
Why can't both cars have great interiors? I like both. Both will use high quality materials. Both are executed differently. Its not like one interior is horrendous or anything.
If ANYTHING Lexus/Audi have led with interiors for quite sometime now and the others have finally caught up. Kudos to both Lexus and Audi with their interiors.
Strictly speaking, IS250 AWD vs A4 Prem Plus Quattro (IS350 is S4 competition)
Audi has:
- higher residuals
- more sturdy sheetmetal
- better seats
- people other than midgets can fit in the back and has a sizable trunk
- MMI is far superior to the outdated Lexus touchscreen system
- Recommended by Consumer Reports
- Faster. A4 2.0T is so much faster
- can get a manual transmission with AWD
- higher quality interior (no one can debate this. it is best in class. you want wood, you can get wood. you want aluminum, you can get it)
- handles quite well
- more advanced AWD system
- Audi Drive Select option
- Bang and Olufsen sound system is better
- Looks are subjective. I think the pre facelift IS is a sharp car. I think the A4 with SLine is sharper
- Audi side assist
- Better fuel economy
Audi has:
- higher residuals
- more sturdy sheetmetal
- better seats
- people other than midgets can fit in the back and has a sizable trunk
- MMI is far superior to the outdated Lexus touchscreen system
- Recommended by Consumer Reports
- Faster. A4 2.0T is so much faster
- can get a manual transmission with AWD
- higher quality interior (no one can debate this. it is best in class. you want wood, you can get wood. you want aluminum, you can get it)
- handles quite well
- more advanced AWD system
- Audi Drive Select option
- Bang and Olufsen sound system is better
- Looks are subjective. I think the pre facelift IS is a sharp car. I think the A4 with SLine is sharper
- Audi side assist
- Better fuel economy
You forgot to mention the A4 is a FWD I-4 car in its basic form, the IS is a RWD, 6 cylinder car in basic form. The A4 is 5 inches longer but the backseat ain't much better.
Fuel economy is the same, if you are saying the A4 gets 1 MPG better with a 4 cylinder over a 6 cylinder, well it gained 1 MPG and lost 2 cylinders.
Most everything else you stated is your opinion. The A4 looks like any Audi sedan the last 30 years, as imaginative and creative as the bland Camry everyone craps on in regards to styling. The IS still looks fresh and crisp 6 years later. I find both handsome and simply different takes on execution, the IS designers were allowed to think, the Audi ones got a longer sheet of paper to draw the same thing.
Both cars have pluses and minues and NEITHER IS OR A4 is in the thread title so lets all get back on the 4GS please.
07-23-11, 03:39 PM
#2893
So what you're saying is that stitched leather makes it a more luxurious car? Well, both BMW and Audi offer leather stitched dashes, etc for extra coin. Obviously, I don't think they could be charging for this, but they offer it.
Just because the screen is better doesn't make it better. Look at resolution. Even at current BMW 10 inches, the new MMI blows iDrive out of the window in terms of resolution. Need I remind you MMI Touch and Google integration blows Remote Touch (an obvious German infotainment ripoff) out of the water?
I love how you're going about looking at interior materials microscopically over a computer screen. I can assure you the Audi A6 interior is soft touch everywhere with rubberized finishes. No cheap feeling plastic. This is a $50k+ car. Not a Toyota.
Now we're onto Mark Levinson. It isn't industry leading anymore. Sure it was the best when the LS came out back in 07?, but not anymore. Audi's Bang and Olufsen/Porsche's Burnmester systems are quite superior to those in any Lexus car.
Not trying to nitpick, but it seems blind Lexus love is keeping you from considering every car equally. Just because it has 4 rings doesn't make it amazing. Just because it has an L, 3 pointed star, roundel on the front, doesn't make it the best. There is not even one review, etc that has considered any Audi interior, especially the new A6/7's interior cheap feeling.
All the cars in this segment (besides the new E) are quite amazing in their own regard.
Just because the screen is better doesn't make it better. Look at resolution. Even at current BMW 10 inches, the new MMI blows iDrive out of the window in terms of resolution. Need I remind you MMI Touch and Google integration blows Remote Touch (an obvious German infotainment ripoff) out of the water?
I love how you're going about looking at interior materials microscopically over a computer screen. I can assure you the Audi A6 interior is soft touch everywhere with rubberized finishes. No cheap feeling plastic. This is a $50k+ car. Not a Toyota.
Now we're onto Mark Levinson. It isn't industry leading anymore. Sure it was the best when the LS came out back in 07?, but not anymore. Audi's Bang and Olufsen/Porsche's Burnmester systems are quite superior to those in any Lexus car.
Not trying to nitpick, but it seems blind Lexus love is keeping you from considering every car equally. Just because it has 4 rings doesn't make it amazing. Just because it has an L, 3 pointed star, roundel on the front, doesn't make it the best. There is not even one review, etc that has considered any Audi interior, especially the new A6/7's interior cheap feeling.
All the cars in this segment (besides the new E) are quite amazing in their own regard.
Very well put AutoUnion!
I currently own a 2007 IS350, and as much as I love Lexus for its reliability, technology, and bang for buck....I am not biased towards any car maker at all. I have always said that Audi's have beautiful interiors, heck....Audi's are great in every way....except reliability (which is improving). I'm also surprised that Mr. Burns is using the large dash screen in the GS as a "good use of materials". I wanted to compare the current RS5 to the ISF, the Audi's interior is much better than that of the ISF (mind you, ISF is built on an almost 6yr old platform). Overall, I think we should not kid ourselves about interior quality of other car makers. Lexus is a great car maker, but its not the BEST! Btw, has anyone seen the new Mercedes-Benz C63 Coupe? OMG...
07-23-11, 03:43 PM
#2894
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not saying the GS' interior is crap. It could be better, it could be worse. we don't know yet
As of right now, the A6 is the benchmark for interiors (in fact it is also the fastest and best driving in its segment right now) with the F10 5 series right behind it. After the GS is out in production form, we can take a look.
If anyone is riding the bandwagon, it's Lexus. Remote Touch and interior design. Taking what they can from the Germans.
Lexus display doesn't look that high res, but still we don't know
[img]http:/-2012-lexus-gs-interior/2012-lexus-gs-interior-8.jpg[/img]
compared to
[img
Get back to me when the Lexus system has 3D buildings, Google Maps integration, topography, terrain, etc
What I'm saying is we can't jump to conclusions yet and make ridiculous statements, such as the GS is best in class, etc when in fact, Lexus pretty much took German interior design and made it their own. After we've all driven it, and it is really that good, we can all have a party saying it is best in class.
As of right now, the A6 is the benchmark for interiors (in fact it is also the fastest and best driving in its segment right now) with the F10 5 series right behind it. After the GS is out in production form, we can take a look.
If anyone is riding the bandwagon, it's Lexus. Remote Touch and interior design. Taking what they can from the Germans.
Lexus display doesn't look that high res, but still we don't know
[img]http:/-2012-lexus-gs-interior/2012-lexus-gs-interior-8.jpg[/img]
compared to
[img
Get back to me when the Lexus system has 3D buildings, Google Maps integration, topography, terrain, etc
What I'm saying is we can't jump to conclusions yet and make ridiculous statements, such as the GS is best in class, etc when in fact, Lexus pretty much took German interior design and made it their own. After we've all driven it, and it is really that good, we can all have a party saying it is best in class.
http://www.walletpop.com/2010/08/06/...drivers-wrong/
I'm getting a little tired of just hearing what Lexus "copies" and not what the Germans copy. German cars had black bumpers with roll down windows until Lexus came along and they realized they better get their act together.
Remote touch has been hailed as the best system for use inside a car. How come you don't mention that? You also don't mention when the Germans copy other GErmans since Audi/Benz copied BMW's iDrive.
Competition is great, you can't go wrong with the Germans or a Lexus. We are nitpicking at things that are amazing to have inside a car.
Lets not turn this into a pissing match or a negative nancy contest please.
07-23-11, 03:58 PM
#2895
Guest
Posts: n/a
They are all great car makers but clearly many here feel Lexus is the best or they wouldn't spend their hard earned money on it and then join a forum to support it. No different than someone on an Audi or Benz/BMW forum who feels what they own is the best.
There is nothing wrong with feeling what you own is the best while still giving compliments and kudos to those brands that deserve it. Once you are keep the basic core enthusiasm, its fine to be an enthusiast about a particular brand.
I love BMW, Benz, Audi, they make in many cases sensational vehicles. However I've owned multiple Lexus vehicles for 15 years now and who do you think I'm rooting for?
There will be bias on a home brands forum. For the most part it is civilized with minimum fanboyism.
AutoUnion and I post on another forum together and if you even mention Lexus/Toyota let alone own one, they want to string you up, hang you, rape you, cut you up and throw you to sharks while peeing and defecating on the Lexus factory.
Trust me, this is extremely open minded compared to elsewhere. And yes, I'm biased.
Thank you, appreciate it. No need for us to **** on each other's brands we prefer, I mean we are all fortunate enough to be in one.
It is all perspective. I think I drive an old hybrid to meets, its nothing special, certainly no Ferrari and I let a young lady drive it around and she was beyond grateful and just loved it.
We owe it to keep it cool and spread the love to others
There is nothing wrong with feeling what you own is the best while still giving compliments and kudos to those brands that deserve it. Once you are keep the basic core enthusiasm, its fine to be an enthusiast about a particular brand.
I love BMW, Benz, Audi, they make in many cases sensational vehicles. However I've owned multiple Lexus vehicles for 15 years now and who do you think I'm rooting for?
There will be bias on a home brands forum. For the most part it is civilized with minimum fanboyism. AutoUnion and I post on another forum together and if you even mention Lexus/Toyota let alone own one, they want to string you up, hang you, rape you, cut you up and throw you to sharks while peeing and defecating on the Lexus factory.
Trust me, this is extremely open minded compared to elsewhere. And yes, I'm biased. First off, glad someone here has some senses and isn't blinded by the L on the front. I do think the C63 coupe is gorgeous, however let's not get into it. (me and Mike have history on other forums, so I don't want to break his respect
).
I just don't get how larger dash = higher quality. But whatever. This is still a pre production car. I'm going to wait until next year before I jump to any conclusions.
I do think the C63 coupe is gorgeous, however let's not get into it. (me and Mike have history on other forums, so I don't want to break his respect).I just don't get how larger dash = higher quality. But whatever. This is still a pre production car. I'm going to wait until next year before I jump to any conclusions.
It is all perspective. I think I drive an old hybrid to meets, its nothing special, certainly no Ferrari and I let a young lady drive it around and she was beyond grateful and just loved it.
We owe it to keep it cool and spread the love to others