4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
#3526
Lexus Champion
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The IS-F already makes around 410hp, why would Lexus use that engine in that specification in a bigger F model? Some of the guess work here is awful. It's like people think Lexus/Toyoda are dumb. IS-F came out and wasn't even a fully supported project. Now it's sporty like M3's but with Lexus feel and quality. Today you see F sport products and possible future F cars. If ALL of Lexus is behind future F cars you can expect a vast improvement over what already is a capable car.
#3527
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I think the power of internal combustion engine are pretty close to maxed out, the next big thing is dropping weight with CF and aluminum. All current AMGs and Ms are pretty much all steel with just a little aluminum and all weight 3800~4500 lbs, there is huge room for improvement there. As seen by the M3 CRT and the 65% CF LFA, all major company's major focus is on how to manufacturer CF at a much reduced cost to bring CF into mainstream cars. My prediction for the 2020 M5 and AMG E will have the power hover around the same 600 hp, but at 3500 lbs or less, so they are only getting faster........no worry
The 2020 M5/E AMG will probably be as fast as today's MP4-12C or 458, in a family sedan.......crazy huh?! ![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I am calling it, 465 hp 5.0L V8 for $75k.......$80k max fully loaded
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#3528
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The IS-F already makes around 410hp, why would Lexus use that engine in that specification in a bigger F model? Some of the guess work here is awful. It's like people think Lexus/Toyoda are dumb. IS-F came out and wasn't even a fully supported project. Now it's sporty like M3's but with Lexus feel and quality. Today you see F sport products and possible future F cars. If ALL of Lexus is behind future F cars you can expect a vast improvement over what already is a capable car.
#3529
Lexus Fanatic
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The IS-F already makes around 410hp, why would Lexus use that engine in that specification in a bigger F model? Some of the guess work here is awful. It's like people think Lexus/Toyoda are dumb. IS-F came out and wasn't even a fully supported project. Now it's sporty like M3's but with Lexus feel and quality. Today you see F sport products and possible future F cars. If ALL of Lexus is behind future F cars you can expect a vast improvement over what already is a capable car.
#3530
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for those who think that $400k is a significant sum , they are really not that wealthy at all , seriously . Of course wealthy people care about money , but really wealthy people quite often don't bother to think too much about a measely $400k , it's not worth their time to sweat over that , they would put their attention on really significant sums of money , like how to make another few hundred millions or more.
I don't know who you know, but everyone I know who is wealthy to uber-rich, and who worked hard to make their money, count pennies and dimes. Now, they will drop big bucks when they need/want to, but they all have a hawk's eye regarding their finances. It's the opposite from what you say. Everything matters. From the big to the small. Except no one knows what their total wealth is. LOL.
But from the few people that I got to know personally that only worth $10~$30 millions, they count pennies and dimes with their hawk's eyes. That's how they get rich and stay rich.
Last edited by BNR34; 08-11-11 at 11:31 AM.
#3531
Super Moderator
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Gojirra99, maybe it is true if you are talking about at the billionaire's level, where it is $200k to fill up the tank of their private jet for a mini vacation. I think the key is they would spend big money on something that worth it, but they won't waste money like nothing if they don't think it is worth it.
But from the few people that I got to know personally that only worth $10~$30 millions, they count pennies and dimes with their hawk's eyes. That's how they get rich and stay rich.
But from the few people that I got to know personally that only worth $10~$30 millions, they count pennies and dimes with their hawk's eyes. That's how they get rich and stay rich.
#3533
Lexus Champion
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465 hp is weak for a GS-F (especially in a segment where numbers are everything).
What is a potential GS-F supposed to compete with? I think it goes up against the likes of E63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R, Audi RS6, BMW M5 and even the Cadillac CTS-V WAGON.......all of them have more than 500 hp.
In this segment, it's the numbers that matter the most.
Hence, a GS-F for the next generation would need at least 500 hp. If Lexus can't make 500 horses, then they shouldn't bother with the GS-F at all...........and only come back when they feel that they are ready to make a GS-F that is really competitive.
What is a potential GS-F supposed to compete with? I think it goes up against the likes of E63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R, Audi RS6, BMW M5 and even the Cadillac CTS-V WAGON.......all of them have more than 500 hp.
In this segment, it's the numbers that matter the most.
Hence, a GS-F for the next generation would need at least 500 hp. If Lexus can't make 500 horses, then they shouldn't bother with the GS-F at all...........and only come back when they feel that they are ready to make a GS-F that is really competitive.
#3534
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#3535
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I hope to be able to answer that question someday. Maybe Sunday after the next Powerball drawing we can revisit this question.
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I don't know. But the slr has tradition while the LFA is an experiment that's currently underway. I also don't know much about the LFA buying process and whether buyer can opt out of a vehicle expected to be delivered a year or two from now. But if so, would Lexus take the risk of putting out a vehicle that is only 52 hp or less than the LFA and costs $300,000 cheaper? It would be a bold move and Lexus has been anything but bold in recent years.
#3536
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I hope to be able to answer that question someday. Maybe Sunday after the next Powerball drawing we can revisit this question. ![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I don't know. But the slr has tradition while the LFA is an experiment that's currently underway. I also don't know much about the LFA buying process and whether buyer can opt out of a vehicle expected to be delivered a year or two from now. But if so, would Lexus take the risk of putting out a vehicle that is only 52 hp or less than the LFA and costs $300,000 cheaper? It would be a bold move and Lexus has been anything but bold in recent years.
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I don't know. But the slr has tradition while the LFA is an experiment that's currently underway. I also don't know much about the LFA buying process and whether buyer can opt out of a vehicle expected to be delivered a year or two from now. But if so, would Lexus take the risk of putting out a vehicle that is only 52 hp or less than the LFA and costs $300,000 cheaper? It would be a bold move and Lexus has been anything but bold in recent years.
#3537
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1st, the SLR came out 2 years earlier then the SL65.
2nd, SL65 is a very high level exclusive model, is not that cheap at all, only about half of the SLR's MSRP.
3rd, the same year SL65 never had as much power as a SLR, it always had 15~20 hp less, only until 2008 the SL65 black series have more power then even the SLR 722S.
It falls in line with my theory, in the same era, the cheaper cars from the same brand never have as much or more power then the flagship.
Also the GS-F is at the E63 at best, and the LFA is pretty much the same level and price as the SLR. Even the 2012 twin turbo E63 only got 550 hp with the performance package..........no where near the 617 hp the SLR initially had back in 2003.......9 years ago.
2nd, SL65 is a very high level exclusive model, is not that cheap at all, only about half of the SLR's MSRP.
3rd, the same year SL65 never had as much power as a SLR, it always had 15~20 hp less, only until 2008 the SL65 black series have more power then even the SLR 722S.
It falls in line with my theory, in the same era, the cheaper cars from the same brand never have as much or more power then the flagship.
Also the GS-F is at the E63 at best, and the LFA is pretty much the same level and price as the SLR. Even the 2012 twin turbo E63 only got 550 hp with the performance package..........no where near the 617 hp the SLR initially had back in 2003.......9 years ago.
#3538
Lexus Fanatic
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465 hp is weak for a GS-F (especially in a segment where numbers are everything).
What is a potential GS-F supposed to compete with? I think it goes up against the likes of E63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R, Audi RS6, BMW M5 and even the Cadillac CTS-V WAGON.......all of them have more than 500 hp.
In this segment, it's the numbers that matter the most.
What is a potential GS-F supposed to compete with? I think it goes up against the likes of E63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R, Audi RS6, BMW M5 and even the Cadillac CTS-V WAGON.......all of them have more than 500 hp.
In this segment, it's the numbers that matter the most.
![Wink](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I think Japanese brands just can't sell $100k+ cars in high volume yet, on my streets, I see $120k+ Euros car everywhere, like at least 10 daily. I see a LS600hL once a week if I am lucky. I see the Phantom more often then a LS600hL. It required prestige to sell $100k+ cars.
Last edited by BNR34; 08-11-11 at 01:18 PM.
#3540
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1st, the SLR came out 2 years earlier then the SL65.
2nd, SL65 is a very high level exclusive model, is not that cheap at all, only about half of the SLR's MSRP.
3rd, the same year SL65 never had as much power as a SLR, it always had 15~20 hp less, only until 2008 the SL65 black series have more power then even the SLR 722S.
It falls in line with my theory, in the same era, the cheaper cars from the same brand never have as much or more power then the flagship.
Also the GS-F is at the E63 at best, and the LFA is pretty much the same level and price as the SLR. Even the 2012 twin turbo E63 only got 550 hp with the performance package..........no where near the 617 hp the SLR initially had back in 2003.......9 years ago.
2nd, SL65 is a very high level exclusive model, is not that cheap at all, only about half of the SLR's MSRP.
3rd, the same year SL65 never had as much power as a SLR, it always had 15~20 hp less, only until 2008 the SL65 black series have more power then even the SLR 722S.
It falls in line with my theory, in the same era, the cheaper cars from the same brand never have as much or more power then the flagship.
Also the GS-F is at the E63 at best, and the LFA is pretty much the same level and price as the SLR. Even the 2012 twin turbo E63 only got 550 hp with the performance package..........no where near the 617 hp the SLR initially had back in 2003.......9 years ago.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 08-11-11 at 05:42 PM.