TF109B

The IS-F already makes around 410hp, why would Lexus use that engine in that specification in a bigger F model? Some of the guess work here is awful. It's like people think Lexus/Toyoda are dumb. IS-F came out and wasn't even a fully supported project. Now it's sporty like M3's but with Lexus feel and quality. Today you see F sport products and possible future F cars. If ALL of Lexus is behind future F cars you can expect a vast improvement over what already is a capable car.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I think the power of internal combustion engine are pretty close to maxed out, the next big thing is dropping weight with CF and aluminum. All current AMGs and Ms are pretty much all steel with just a little aluminum and all weight 3800~4500 lbs, there is huge room for improvement there. As seen by the M3 CRT and the 65% CF LFA, all major company's major focus is on how to manufacturer CF at a much reduced cost to bring CF into mainstream cars. My prediction for the 2020 M5 and AMG E will have the power hover around the same 600 hp, but at 3500 lbs or less, so they are only getting faster........no worry The 2020 M5/E AMG will probably be as fast as today's MP4-12C or 458, in a family sedan.......crazy huh?!

I am calling it, 465 hp 5.0L V8 for $75k.......$80k max fully loaded

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I hope you are still here when Lexus announce the offical specs of the 2014 GS-F, I am very confident of my educated prediction.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

Better question is why wouldn't they? Everything about the 4GS press packet is about styling. So why would we assume there's been some big push behind increased hp in the GS when it's been 11 years of hp disappointment. People are calling Lexus dumb with the LFA (I'm not) so why wouldn't they think the same for the lower echelon models? The truth is that the GS has gotten the crap end of the deal ever since the first home run in 98. I'm praying that the GS matters to someone again in Corp and they at least make another attempt at changing the game. However the early carryover talk (350) does not inspire me much.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Gojirra99, maybe it is true if you are talking about at the billionaire's level, where it is $200k to fill up the tank of their private jet for a mini vacation. I think the key is they would spend big money on something that worth it, but they won't waste money like nothing if they don't think it is worth it.

But from the few people that I got to know personally that only worth $10~$30 millions, they count pennies and dimes with their hawk's eyes. That's how they get rich and stay rich.

Gojirra99

I understand what you are saying , but I think they price the LFA to target people who are worth significantly more than that , though not necessarily billionaires ...

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

Would be interesting to hear from one of the few LFA owners on here how they would feel (if at all) about a 500 hp GS-F

Blackraven

465 hp is weak for a GS-F (especially in a segment where numbers are everything).

What is a potential GS-F supposed to compete with? I think it goes up against the likes of E63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R, Audi RS6, BMW M5 and even the Cadillac CTS-V WAGON.......all of them have more than 500 hp.

In this segment, it's the numbers that matter the most.

Hence, a GS-F for the next generation would need at least 500 hp. If Lexus can't make 500 horses, then they shouldn't bother with the GS-F at all...........and only come back when they feel that they are ready to make a GS-F that is really competitive.

Gojirra99

How does a slr owner feel about the hp of the much cheaper sl65 ?

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

I hope to be able to answer that question someday. Maybe Sunday after the next Powerball drawing we can revisit this question.

I don't know. But the slr has tradition while the LFA is an experiment that's currently underway. I also don't know much about the LFA buying process and whether buyer can opt out of a vehicle expected to be delivered a year or two from now. But if so, would Lexus take the risk of putting out a vehicle that is only 52 hp or less than the LFA and costs $300,000 cheaper? It would be a bold move and Lexus has been anything but bold in recent years.

Gojirra99

the GS-F has not even been anounced and even if they have a plan to build one , will likely not be available for at least 2 years , maybe more ... We are still at least 6 months away from the regular 4GS remember ......

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

1st, the SLR came out 2 years earlier then the SL65.
2nd, SL65 is a very high level exclusive model, is not that cheap at all, only about half of the SLR's MSRP.
3rd, the same year SL65 never had as much power as a SLR, it always had 15~20 hp less, only until 2008 the SL65 black series have more power then even the SLR 722S.

It falls in line with my theory, in the same era, the cheaper cars from the same brand never have as much or more power then the flagship.

Also the GS-F is at the E63 at best, and the LFA is pretty much the same level and price as the SLR. Even the 2012 twin turbo E63 only got 550 hp with the performance package..........no where near the 617 hp the SLR initially had back in 2003.......9 years ago.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

On theory, the GS-F is a E63/M5/RS6/XF-R/CTS-V competitor, but in reality, I don't think Lexus plan to compete on the same level at all. With the required options that we all want, E63/M5/RS6 all starts at $100k. I think the GS-F will be $80k max fully loaded. I think Lexus will play like the Genesis 5.0 R-Spec, offer less for much less money. On theory the Genesis R is a GS-F competitor, but offer less for much less money. The $70k CTS-V got 560 hp just because American HP is cheap, it also come with less equipments and image then all the German's offerings. They are all playing at different areas.

I think Lexus would offer a 500 hp+ GS-F when they feel they can sell a $100k+ GS-F

I think Japanese brands just can't sell $100k+ cars in high volume yet, on my streets, I see $120k+ Euros car everywhere, like at least 10 daily. I see a LS600hL once a week if I am lucky. I see the Phantom more often then a LS600hL. It required prestige to sell $100k+ cars.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i will just say my opinion again. if lexus makes a gsf with less than 500hp, might as well not try. i am pretty sure a lot of buyers in the segment (m5, e63) think the same, at least the ones that i know of

Gojirra99

By the time a GS-F comes out , the LFA will be water under the bridge , they made a mistake by pricing the LFA too high , and they should not try to compensate for that mistake by dumbing down the GS-F just to appease the LFA owners , a mere 500 of them or less , who may or may not care too much about hoe much hp the GS-F have , and hp is not everything . they should concentrate on making a credible and competitive GS-F for the market that it is intended to compete in , which is the 500+ hp mid sized sedan segment. the last thingn they should do is to hold back the GS-F just because of the LFA(which is about much more than the engine's hp) , put out a half-assed product, they might as well not build a F variant at all .