rominl

iTrader: (4)

yup, unfortunately the market where gsf falls into is full of customers who only knows about numbers, so having high power output is needed. i would say having 530hp is a safe beginning. next m5 will likely have 550hp (look at the x5m), e63 right now is on 518hp, but their FI version will be out soon and it will probably push 550+ as well. so lexus needs to play the game well.

of course, together with light weight and other things will help give lexus the edge as well.

TRDFantasy

Exactly. 520-530 HP minimum, plus some of the technology and know-how from the LFA would make the GSF a competitive car. It also needs to be well differentiated from the next-gen ISF which is not that far off.

TF109B

I'd say Lexus is going to go down the less weight route. maybe more power, but their european line-up for the GS is supposed to be ALL HYRBID. That isn't the U.S. but if they're doing this in Europe they might just make the Hybrid GS the top of the line model and not the GS4 or GS5, whatever it be called. At least until or if they make a GS-F. I say they use some carbon fiber and a lot of Aluminum and reduce weight about 100 or so pounds to around 3650. The weight of the Supra was around 3500. And it had 'only' 330hp. I don't see why the new GS can't be just as fast as the supra with maybe 200 pounds more weight and about 50 more HP. The GS4 makes what, 340-350HP currently? I doubt they'll decrease the HP, if anything they'll make it like the above poster said and have 380HP in standing with the LS. Like I stated, 50HP more than the Supra had. Maybe even push it to 400+HP like with the IS-F engine. And maybe use a higher powered version of the IS-F engine to make the GS-F. The IS-F is making 415+, I'd say it's next version makes at least 430HP, and the GS-F will have to outdo that, so it's safe to say 480-500+HP? The LFA tech should help out with lightening the load in the weight department. That's one of the things they were talking about with the LFA, that the technology they learned from it would trickle down into the other cars and help with new components as well...

SLegacy99

While it's nice that Lexus if focusing on new hybrids, it would be good of them to update their existing one's with the new tech. Make them more worthwhile. The RX450h is a shining example.

LexFather

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lex...struction.html

Pretty good post...the link above helps back you up as Lexus is learning a lot about CF with the LFA..

(Cj)

Moreso than giving the hybrid more power, or efficiency (<---although that would be great!), Lexus needs to get the price under control.

Why does the current GSh have a $12K price premium over the GS350?

It doesn't make any sense considering the price premiums of Toyota's and even Lexus's own RX and HS are much smaller. If Lexus can improve efficiency and performance great, if they can cut the price premium of the hybrid in half, I (and many others I'm sure) will be in line to buy one.

TRDFantasy

You're right, the GS hybrid price premium definitely needs to decrease as well.

(Cj)

Yeah the new Mark-X has 315hp I believe so there's definitely some room for more horsepower in the current 3.5L V6. The GS350 still has best in class fuel efficiency even with all the competition being 5 years newer. Any gain would be welcome and quite impressive for the GS

As I've said a few times in my last post I hope that the hybrid will slot below the V8 in price since it will probably be slotting below it in performance this time around. They should shoot for a price in the low $50s.

Lexus can't make the V8 GS too powerful or else no one will buy the GS-F. Remember the GS-F will likely be $20K more than the V8 GS.

Anyway both the E and the XF have only 385 hp and the A6 will likely also have below 400hp so 400+hp isn't as essential as you say, but I would like to see the V8 GS at the 400 mark. It shouldn't be hard for Lexus to really make a splash with the V8 GS's performance numbers since the 420hp M is said to be sluggish. A performance tuned 8AT could jet the V8 GS to 60 faster than most of the competition which would be a GOOD thing.

I agree. Lexus will probably intentionally make the GS-F less powerful than the LFA, but I would hope that it's still powerful enough to be competitive. 535hp sounds good to me for a GS-F

Now the only question would be how are they going to get it? FI? V10? Displacement? ???

LexFather

The GSh has a price premium b/c for one its a very limited production vehicle compared to the 350. The GSh also debuted world firsts which are expensive. The GSh also came loaded with NAV/ML and has AVS...

Also, it should not be compared to the 350. Lexus and the reviews compared the GSh to V-8 competition and it is a "Value" in comparison to them.

If yall remember the GSh came in under the old GS 430 (I think or slighly above it) in MSRP and it was a no brainer to get the 450h over the 430 at the time.

Surely the M37 hybrid will have a price premium over the M37 similar in distance.

(Cj)

Yeah it did start out below the GS430, but it's price has been going up ever since. In contrast the RX400h's price started out at around $10K more than the RX350, but slowly shrank and now today the even more powerful RX450h only cost an even $5K more than the RX350. I guess that could be because of volume.

FWIW the current GSh doesn't even come loaded anymore, now you have to pay an extra $5K for Nav/ML bringing the price into LS territory.

LexFather

Yeah the GSh is now special order only and that raises the price. Also the Yen hasn't been great so all Japanese car prices (made in Japan, imported here) have raised. The RXh sells around 1500 units a month, the GSh might have sold 1500 units in the past 3 years!

I honestly am still on the fence do I want to see the GSh stay a performance hybrid or have it scaled back to get better MPG. I would love to see a 30MPG GSh and if it did 0-60 in 6.2 instead of 5.2 I could live with that.

encore888

Regarding hp, I don't expect Lexus to gun for the very top in class #s, rather they will go for competitive #s but if past history is any indication, they're not going to go huge displacement and overall most power and torque. They're going to try to hit their typical power/efficiency/smoothness etc. targets. It's possible they will reuse the existing engines too, but that would probably upset people like how the US market got the GS 430/300 while Japan got the 350 earlier.

RXSF

the 350 has plenty of power in its class, it definately beats out the E class and maybe even the 5 series. However, it should get the full 4.6 engine power of the LS

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i believe the gs350 actually had the most powerful v6 setup among competitors until the 535? can't recall all the details anymore. the 350 is one efficient powerful engine

i agree with encore on the setup, except the isf i guess. it's bigger displacement than some competitors for both hp and tq, and they intentionally rated the hp to be more than m3, until "beaten" by c63. would be very interesting to see how they do the setup for gsf, if it comes

LexFather

Well the GS F if it comes would need maybe. 5.5 liter
to be competitive. Maybe it gets hybrid help?

I just don't see Lexus making a 500hp plus sedan. I would be stunned even more so than the LFA