4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
07-21-10, 07:51 PM
#601
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry, but if the GS F is anywhere close to the 500 hp mark, it will be the underpowered step-child of this class. 
The E63 already has 518, the upcoming F10 M5 is rumored to be somewhere between 550 and 580 hp and the RS6 already has 580 hp (we can get it up here
). Unfortunately, I just don't see the GS F as making up the handling deficiency, in addition to a power one.
The hybrid is a great option and the 350 can comfortably compete with their German counterparts, but the lack of a V8 and an weak (potential) GS F is not a good sign for the future of Lexus if they want to shed their "lack of performance" image.
The E63 already has 518, the upcoming F10 M5 is rumored to be somewhere between 550 and 580 hp and the RS6 already has 580 hp (we can get it up here
). Unfortunately, I just don't see the GS F as making up the handling deficiency, in addition to a power one. The hybrid is a great option and the 350 can comfortably compete with their German counterparts, but the lack of a V8 and an weak (potential) GS F is not a good sign for the future of Lexus if they want to shed their "lack of performance" image.
Lexus is very much about emissions and MPG. Maybe the GS F gets a hybrid V-8 combo to help, I am not sure.
I think it's sad to see them drop the V8 if it happens that way. Like you said Mike, they shot themselves in BOTH feet: weak 4.3 at launch, detuned 4.6 later, while the competition became stronger and more powerful. There is no market for a V8 GS because Lexus makes it readily apparent that they don't even take the car seriously
The other stuff sounds good...it needs Sports packages, F sport models, and more compelling wheel choices next time around.
I was kinda looking forward to a ~400HP V8 GS
However, if they can get a 0-60 of 5.0 seconds or less, 30+MPG and curb weight of less than 3,900lbs with a hybrid V6, then I am all for it
The other stuff sounds good...it needs Sports packages, F sport models, and more compelling wheel choices next time around.
I was kinda looking forward to a ~400HP V8 GS
However, if they can get a 0-60 of 5.0 seconds or less, 30+MPG and curb weight of less than 3,900lbs with a hybrid V6, then I am all for it
07-21-10, 08:07 PM
#603
Lexus Champion
The IS F doesn't need to make more power as it sits between the M3 and C63 in terms of power. As much as I love my F, the M3 handles better, with it being essentially on par with the C63. I agree that the F is more reliable than the BMW and MB....and cheaper to boot!
What I disagree with is that an underpowered GS F will compete with the E63, M5 and RS6 when it will lack handling in comparison. Reliability will not make up the difference at this level of car and this price point.
Don't get me wrong....I want the GS F to be able to compete with the Germans....but this latest info doesn't appear that way.
07-21-10, 08:24 PM
#604
If they aren't going to take the GS seriously, they should just outright kill it. Its well on the way to becoming the next RL.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
07-21-10, 08:35 PM
#605
Lexus Champion
If they aren't going to take the GS seriously, they should just outright kill it. Its well on the way to becoming the next RL.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
They have 4 different models, plus a special edition, plus the RS6 that offer everything from tech, to luxury to performance.
The only true players in this class are the MB, BMW and Audi. Everyone else is not only playing catch up, but trying to take a huge leap.
07-21-10, 08:36 PM
#606
How do you possibly figure that the A6 doesn't compete in this category???
They have 4 different models, plus a special edition, plus the RS6 that offer everything from tech, to luxury to performance.
The only true players in this class are the MB, BMW and Audi. Everyone else is not only playing catch up, but trying to take a huge leap.
They have 4 different models, plus a special edition, plus the RS6 that offer everything from tech, to luxury to performance.
The only true players in this class are the MB, BMW and Audi. Everyone else is not only playing catch up, but trying to take a huge leap.
07-21-10, 08:42 PM
#607
Lexus Champion
Och, I'm not sure of the US sales data....but go drive one. Audi still continues to struggle in the US, but I think that's more to do with the media and all the bs they dealt with over the "false acceleration" issues. Have a peek at worldwide sales numbers and there is a reason that the rest of the world comfortably considers Audi a true Tier 1 marque.
Audi is showing the strongest growth in the NA market of any luxury brand and there is a reason for it.
Audi still continues to struggle in the US, but I think that's more to do with the media and all the bs they dealt with over the "false acceleration" issues. Have a peek at worldwide sales numbers and there is a reason that the rest of the world comfortably considers Audi a true Tier 1 marque. Audi is showing the strongest growth in the NA market of any luxury brand and there is a reason for it.
07-21-10, 08:50 PM
#608
Och, I'm not sure of the US sales data....but go drive one. Audi still continues to struggle in the US, but I think that's more to do with the media and all the bs they dealt with over the "false acceleration" issues. Have a peek at worldwide sales numbers and there is a reason that the rest of the world comfortably considers Audi a true Tier 1 marque.
Audi is showing the strongest growth in the NA market of any luxury brand and there is a reason for it.
Audi still continues to struggle in the US, but I think that's more to do with the media and all the bs they dealt with over the "false acceleration" issues. Have a peek at worldwide sales numbers and there is a reason that the rest of the world comfortably considers Audi a true Tier 1 marque. Audi is showing the strongest growth in the NA market of any luxury brand and there is a reason for it.
07-21-10, 09:00 PM
#609
Lexus Champion
I was looking at the A6 before deciding on our last SUV and spoke to a friend of mine. He's currently in an RS4 and Q7, having previously owned a couple A4's and an A6. He stated he loved the cars, but had not ever had a good experience with the dealerships whether it be sales or service.
The brutal dealership experience that I experienced was a large part of why I went back to looking at Lexus/BMW/MB.
07-21-10, 09:03 PM
#610
Lexus Test Driver
Bah v8 this 550hp that.. I don't think Lexus want's to go that route. Just gimme a souped up lexus version of the Tesla S and I'll be happy. It doesn't have to play the same game as the Germans to be a winner.
07-21-10, 09:11 PM
#611
In fairness...and in reference to another current thread...it could also be the horrific dealership experience that is helping to suppress Audi's sales numbers.
I was looking at the A6 before deciding on our last SUV and spoke to a friend of mine. He's currently in an RS4 and Q7, having previously owned a couple A4's and an A6. He stated he loved the cars, but had not ever had a good experience with the dealerships whether it be sales or service.
The brutal dealership experience that I experienced was a large part of why I went back to looking at Lexus/BMW/MB.
I was looking at the A6 before deciding on our last SUV and spoke to a friend of mine. He's currently in an RS4 and Q7, having previously owned a couple A4's and an A6. He stated he loved the cars, but had not ever had a good experience with the dealerships whether it be sales or service.
The brutal dealership experience that I experienced was a large part of why I went back to looking at Lexus/BMW/MB.
07-21-10, 09:14 PM
#612
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mike, I don't disagree with you regarding the LFA, as it appears that it outhandles it's competitors without requiring excessive power (using existing track times as reference). It does a great job of everything....which allows it to compete.
The IS F doesn't need to make more power as it sits between the M3 and C63 in terms of power. As much as I love my F, the M3 handles better, with it being essentially on par with the C63. I agree that the F is more reliable than the BMW and MB....and cheaper to boot!
What I disagree with is that an underpowered GS F will compete with the E63, M5 and RS6 when it will lack handling in comparison. Reliability will not make up the difference at this level of car and this price point.
Don't get me wrong....I want the GS F to be able to compete with the Germans....but this latest info doesn't appear that way.
The IS F doesn't need to make more power as it sits between the M3 and C63 in terms of power. As much as I love my F, the M3 handles better, with it being essentially on par with the C63. I agree that the F is more reliable than the BMW and MB....and cheaper to boot!
What I disagree with is that an underpowered GS F will compete with the E63, M5 and RS6 when it will lack handling in comparison. Reliability will not make up the difference at this level of car and this price point.
Don't get me wrong....I want the GS F to be able to compete with the Germans....but this latest info doesn't appear that way.
I think we both can agree the IS F proves people want a higher performance sedan from Lexus. A GS F is a no brainer here they HAVE to expand the F brand.
Don't get me wrong, it is disappointing. I have no idea what powerplant a GS F would even have at this point.
If they aren't going to take the GS seriously, they should just outright kill it. Its well on the way to becoming the next RL.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
This is a tough tough market and currently MB and BMW seem to be the only players who are able to compete. Lexus used to complete with the GS, but fell out of the game, Infiniti was competing with the M, but the new one is a disaster. Audi was never really able to compete, and I don't see it changing much.
I think right now Hyundai has a better chance taking that 3rd spot with the Genesis than either Infiniti or Lexus.
Lexus should still offer a V-8 in the GS I agree.
07-21-10, 11:27 PM
#613
Why does everyone think that Lexus has to "up the power" and "increase performance" to be as "good as" the Germans? Maybe Lexus never did and doesn't plan on being German. Maybe they're just happy being Japanese?
Not everyone is a Capt. Kirk freak "I NEED MORE POWER SCOTTY !!!!" Lexus should concentrate on comfort, reliability, material quality, and just being a super nice car to own. You want power, go buy BMW/MB/Audi then... ugh.
Not everyone is a Capt. Kirk freak "I NEED MORE POWER SCOTTY !!!!" Lexus should concentrate on comfort, reliability, material quality, and just being a super nice car to own. You want power, go buy BMW/MB/Audi then... ugh.
if they make the gsf, it's not going to be in the same market like the lfa. lfa is a halo project car, there are less boundaries and it's more about showing what they got.
but when you look at the market of m5, e63, and rs6, sorry to say but a lot of buyers in that segment, they look at the numbers on paper. as mentioned, upcoming m5 will have 550hp or more. mb already talks about their upcoming amg engine for the e class to have similar output. and if there comes a gsf at around 500hp, it's just going to be another very hard sell.
on the other hand, i also have to say, i see more e550 and 550i on the road compared to gs430/460. like mike said, lexus THEMSELVES killed their gs v8 line by the silly gs430 debut and then the detuned gs460
07-22-10, 12:16 AM
#614
Got some fresh info today and I will share to protect the CL innocent .....take it for what its worth but I think this is solid info....
Updated with what I've heard through the grapevine........
-GS 350 name will continue with a bump in HP
-GSh will continue, not sure of power/MPG bump
-GS 460 will not be replaced. The business case for the V-8 was nill since the hybrid will continue to provide V-8 power with better MPG and the V-8 GS never sold well (though this is IMO some of their own doing with the V-8s the 3GS got)
-Interior is amazing, a significant step up i style and quality, CTish
-12" screen in the interior with remote touch
-The drive will be significantly sportier and more in tune with the 5 series
-GS F is likely coming but hasn't been given the 100% approval yet
-Exterior a blend of curves with the traditional GS features
I'm expecting we will see some photos soon
.....take it for what its worth but I think this is solid info....Updated with what I've heard through the grapevine........
-GS 350 name will continue with a bump in HP
-GSh will continue, not sure of power/MPG bump
-GS 460 will not be replaced. The business case for the V-8 was nill since the hybrid will continue to provide V-8 power with better MPG and the V-8 GS never sold well (though this is IMO some of their own doing with the V-8s the 3GS got)
-Interior is amazing, a significant step up i style and quality, CTish
-12" screen in the interior with remote touch
-The drive will be significantly sportier and more in tune with the 5 series
-GS F is likely coming but hasn't been given the 100% approval yet
-Exterior a blend of curves with the traditional GS features
I'm expecting we will see some photos soon
Damn, I can't wait to see what a next gen GS-F looks like.
