*Batman*

And look. Now even Mercedes is launching a turbo V8.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11005072...o-and-35-liter

TRDFantasy

So the 2011 GS is already on the Lexus.com website, the first 2011 model on the site (with the exception of the LFA). This seems to confirm a short life for the 2011 model year, so that means the 2012 should debut at the end of this year or early next year.

I really hope Lexus does not disappoint with this car.

jjbenzo

Yeah, I noticed yesterday that Lexus updated their site with the 2011 GS. My anticipation/excitement grows more each day over the release of the 4th gen. GS (and 3rd gen SC). After seeing the modest upgrades for the 2011 IS, I am confident that Akio Toyoda is putting Lexus back on track for some excitement.

ypnadkar

Let us hope the driving excitement is back at Lexus. Lexus cars were always quite and comfortable and great for cruising. Alas most manufacturers are making their cars quite and comfortable but also have made them better handling. So Lexus has to compete in that department. Engines have to be up to par, design is an area they have to improve tremendously, handling has to improve a lot. For Lexus to be competitive they need to up their game. I know they can, but we will have to wait and watch.
On a side note I am surprised Lexus has not adopted Twin Turbo technology as yet. They used to have some great TT enginers. Supra, Caldina, Celica GT-4. They used to have a 2.0 L TT in the Celica GT-4/Caldina making 260 HP way back in early 2000's. Most manufacturers are getting good mileage numbers (albeit EPA numbers which do not always match real world driving), Lexus is falling behind in that area as well. Need a knockout punch again

TF109B

I don't see how Lexus is falling behind. Not with cars that are at the end of their model cycle. That's a laugh. That's saying a 5 year old car is supposed to be on par with a brand new 2011 model. No way. Regardless of the updates each year, the GS is not a brand new vehicle. It's still just an upgraded carry-over. When the new 2012 model hits I think the critics will be silenced. I'm hoping at least. The hyrbid is pretty safe but I expect updates in that area as well. Like I said earlier, with all the car makes now pushing more power more power, they aren't helping themselves with the future. The cars still weigh in order of 2 tons, Lexus is going the other route (rumored) of losing weight and not throwing extra amounts of power in their engines. I think Light weight is the way to go. The Camry weighs 3200lbs. But it's the best selling mid-sized car. It's still quiet inside, and it's not bare boned either. Proof Toyota/Lexus knows how to make a car light in weight but still have a good amount of luxury to it. Cars don't need 400HP to move around or be fast. 325HP and 3500lbs is just fine. The Supra was 3500lbs and had 330HP, it hit 60 in the mid 4's. The GS is a sports sedan, not a sports car. While other luxury makes chase the BMW thing, Lexus has built it's reputation as being quiet, safe, reliable, luxurious, and resale. The sport thing will come, but they don't need to blow the competition out of the water. The GS460 competed very well with others in it's class. And even though it didn't have 400HP it's acceleration matched and beat most out there.

*Batman*

Here's why I think Lexus is falling behind and it has nothing to do with the fact that the model is older:

1) they launched this year a new infotainment and gps system across all models. The Gen6 system replacing the Gen5 which came out in 2005. So it's something they update every 4-5 years. The new system is lacking many features others have had for a couple of years:
- birds-eye view navigation (everyone except Toyota has this!)
- Showing buildings and realistic scenery on the navigation
- lines on the backup camera
- around view monitor - BMW has it, Infiniti has had it since 2008 model year - it's in my 2008 EX35
- they are going to a mouse setup when Infiniti has a touch screen and a traditional controller

2) several new models launched in last 18 months but none with these features:
- top view cameras
- effective natural voice recognition
- head up display
- Google search
- effective background noise canceling Bluetooth phone integration - ie setup with multiple mics

3) Lexus is not exploring turbo or supercharger technology (already on sale at BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, Lincoln) and there is no evidence they are exploring large block V8s like Infiniti. So it is reasonable to assume we won't have a cutting edge engine in the next GS at least not those of us who want trunks. I'm sure the hybrid will be great.

I'm not categorically saying the next GS will be backward. In fact I have my fingers crossed and am hoping it will be a market leading car. I want the GS to be great because BMWs are overpriced and depreciate badly!

However the signs are that Lexus is falling behind and the new model won't have competitive power or tech.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

sorry, i can't entirely agree with this. and i am a 3gs owner

1) even if we moved back 3 yrs, the 3gs still wasn't really "leading". in my eyes, 3gs has been playing catch up in a lot of areas since the very beginning. that was 2006. areas they are good? v6 power, v6 gas mileage, interior. areas they lose? interior space, trunk space, v8 power, driving feel

2) like it or not, lexus is trying to hit the sport aspect with the 3gs. when compared to 2gs (which i also owned) that's very clear, stiffer ride, tighter steering. most owners can tell you that. it's clear they are trying to get closer to mb and bmw. i am not saying the 3gs can't handle, i have one and i know very well. but at the same time can it give drivers the kind of confidence on the road? that's a different story

3) yeah, rumor is the 4gs they might lose weight, we will see how well lexus can do in that department, specially with the lfa projects and technologies. but until we see that, it's a wish list not a comparison list. gs460 isn't any faster by any measure compared to the v8 competitors of its time, but with the new competitors, the gs460 is slow. sure it's possible for lexus to compete with not-as-powerful v8 and light body, that remains to be seen. however, your kind of mentality is not what most people in this segment care. they don't go through the same kind of logic to determine if a car is "good". as i have mentioned before, hp will speak some, one way or the other. if you put the 550i 400hp, and the next gs continues to be 350hp, it will still be tough sell. same thing will apply on gsf

when they 3gs came out, everyone had high hope as well, given the success of 2gs, but we see very well what happened. sure, 4gs can do the same, but until then

LB23

1SickLex, I agree with your preference.
In fact, I believe its the standard among luxury brands, I mean, BMW nor MB changes their cars every 5 years. NO WAY.
Just for reference, in this class, MY 1997-2004-2011 BMW 5 series, 7 years between each one.
MY 1996-2003-2010 E CLASS. Again 7 years.


LOL, u think of this car too much, too much!!!


I believe the 2011 5 series is great. Has an amazing interior, I really like that interior, the best for a bmw today, at least for me.
His steering feedback/precision is lacking compared to the old generation, but overall an improvement in terms of technology, comfort, top notch materials,the 8 speed auto, and the amazing Twin Turbo V8, damn, thats fast!!

LB23

That was the best position ever for a GS, considering all generations? 3rd best? Got any numbers?

I like that one. I belive they can do a great interior.
Yeah, GS350 will continue with a bump in HP, of course needed, but what a bump in fuel efficiency as well? They probably can`t/won`t forget about that one.
A good V8 is a must, since all their competitors offer one, and they are very powerful ones (except the 4.2L V8 of the A6)


I agree with you that hopefully they come out with very good engines from the start. Nonetheless, that not always happens, given a specific time frame set by the manufacturer to release the all new model.

Take for instance the all new E90, MY 06 was the 330i, and then the year later, they come strong with the new TT I6 335i.
The 07 cx-9 started with a 3.5L V6, year later they got the 3.7LV6.
The 08 lancer started with a 2.0L for the GTS, next year they added a new 2.4L.

Besides, the 06 GS300 despite having the same engine displacement as before, was an all new engine, with an aluminum block instead of iron, with state of the art technologies like Direct Injection, variable valve timing system, which now adjusts both intake and exhaust cams, that plus the new 6 speed auto.

So I believe its all about as time frames and business case and not rushing new engines for the sake of image but then have quality/reliability problems that affect more. Besides, all new gen does sell more than just selling a carryover old model one more year for the sake of waiting for a new engine, doesn`t it?


That is incorrect.
3500-3600 pounds would be correct if you are talking about the GS300 RWD.
Which in fact, was 100 pounds lighter than the 2 gen GS300.
But with the new 3.5L V6 taking over, the GS350 RWD now weighs 3700lbs.

jjbenzo

According to Edmunds.com, the 2012 GS460 has a target launch date of "Spring 2011." Prices from $55,800. So...hopefully we will see something maybe at the Detroit or Chicago auto shows. And the best part of all is that a V8 is expected to remain (although hopefully with more power).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

prices FROM 55k? well i won't really believe it until i see it, but man if that's true, that's gonna hurt

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well, but get this. the very exact same year, in japan, lexus directly went with the gs350. gs300 was never released in japan at all. so my question would be why not gs350 here from the very beginning, why that one year of gs300?

imho, it has a lot to do with image. it made the 3gs a very "soft" release. a gs300 with a new v6 without impressive power. a gs430 with the exact same 430 engine from before. so the body style and techs are new, but drivetrain were so-so. if they came out with the gs350 and the gs450h together in one shot? imagine the impact of that. personally i believe the soft release of the 3gs contribute to its not-so-impressive sales over the years

and if you talk about not to rush out with a new engine design, i actually think the 3gs was a rush release in other aspects too. audio system upgraded the next year. navigation system upgraded the next year.

that's why for the 4gs i really hope they plan it out well with a strong statement

jjbenzo

That is for a V8 GS...not the V6. This is only a couple hundred more than what the 2011 GS460 starts at.

LexFather

I'm with you. While I understand that Lexus said they wanted to have more engine updates during the 3GS life than the 1/2GS life (the GS 300 used the same engine from 93-05) the fact is they released the car with engines that were not exactly thrilling.

The thing is if the GS 350 debuted with the GS 430 the 430 would have looked real redundant. I also think Lexus wants the 4.6 to debut in the LS first.

Numbers have been posted might have to search. At its best the 3GS sold over 32,000 units in 2005 as a 2006 model. The GS 400 sold slightly over 30,000 units a couple of years.

Driving excitement back at Lexus? Lexus has always been more luxury than sport. Today we have sporty Lexus in the IS, GS and then IS F and LFA. No matter what people say, the 3GS drives sportier than the last models and is no slouch, its the steering feel that is vague.

Why hump turbos when Lexus has hybrids? The GS 450h offers power and better MPG. The competition is now "Catching up"

Its amazing to me to see people knock Lexus when they don't offer something and ignore Lexus when they lead with something.

Sorry the Infiniti M does not look too good to me. Way to many curves with a bland rear and SUV face. No thanks. I agree the interior is well done with materials but again, the constant zig zag lines makes me dizzy.

The GS and M and RL and MKS etc will NEVER out sell the 5/E class. It makes no sense to say they stink b/c they don't outsell the 5/E. They have lower sales targets.

Infiniti's new M37/56 is not exactly selling great. It's selling 1200 units a month which is 50% less than what the last model sold its first year. Infiniti has already countered with agressive discounts and leases.

I think you might have joined the wrong site if you think the IS is too small, the GS is too slow, the LS is too mediocre and you bash the HS with your second post.

*Batman*

As a performance enthusiast I cannot accept hybrids as a substitute for a V8 with turbos, for 2 reasons:
1) Additional weight which leads to diminished cornering speeds
2) Loss of trunk space which is not acceptable to those of us where the big sedan is the only car in the house with a proper trunk.