4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
10-07-10, 08:56 PM
#856
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I had a very similar experience a couple years ago. I had always thought Audi's had class leading interiors from pics and reviews and liked many of the older ones even though I never spent much time in them. I went to a auto show and spent some time sitting in various Audi's and examining the interiors and was shocked and disappointed with the interiors in their design and quality. They did not feel any higher in quality or were better looking then most of the Lexus or Acura interiors I was familiar with although the quality of materials in the Audi's was noticeably better then the Mercedes vehicles at the show. When sitting in the Audi's and pressing buttons they did not give a satisfying feedback, felt like cheap hard plastic, and give this annoying cheap sounding loud click. The A6 interior was very plain to me and not a very good design especially with all that flat featureless plastic around the gauges and upper center dash area. The leather felt rough and unimpressive. I later sat in a Acura RL, MDX, and Lexus LS460 and thought they had much better designs, better quality, and more satisfying precise tactile feedback when operating controls. The A8 was the only Audi interior I was impressed with quality and design wise.
(it is as well put together as a Hyundai Excel)so we have to take the opinion with a grain of salt. The A6 has a fantastic interior. It is GERMAN in design, so it seems colder and more businesslike than Japanese designs.
It is very well built, I feel it was more solid than my 2GS and 3GS.
FYI no one considers Acura anywhere near the best interiors. They are good but not on Lexus or Audi levels.
10-07-10, 08:59 PM
#857
The only thing the 2nd gen Acura TL really does well is exterior aesthetics. The 2nd gen TL/TL-S is a flat out good looking car, period. Other than that, it was wrong wheel drive and its interior left a lot to be desired.
The newest TL is absolutely abysmal on the exterior front, but then again I admit that this is purely subjective.
The newest TL is absolutely abysmal on the exterior front, but then again I admit that this is purely subjective.
10-08-10, 12:05 AM
#858
first, it's quick if you go from stop to 60 and that's about it. anything above that, and especially on at speed pick up, the v8 is going to destroy the v6. whenever i try to pick up speed from 60mph i can feel the car is working hard. v8 with the tq will have no problem keep on pulling
and that's the other point of v8, the smoothness and quietness. i can honestly say the v6 works harder and a bit louder when working, whereas the v8 is smoother and less effortless.
there is no replacement for displacement, that still holds
10-08-10, 01:18 AM
#860
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i am not sure if gsf design started 4-5 yrs ago? even for the isf, it wasn't until 2is was pretty much done and then just 2 people in the lab working. that was around 2005-06 time frame. if at that time there were already gsf project started, then the isf should have been able to leverage off much more.
and for the v10, the lfa engine i am sure would be on the more gas efficient side. but knowing how it works and also the high rev, i would really want to see how reality sets in with the EPA numbers (i think 14/20?). just like the v10 in the m5, EPA numbers and reality is very different. in reality the high rev engine eats up on gas much worse.
plus with the future gas mileage requirement, with the gsf using v10, then other lexus lineup will need to do more to help balance things out
and for the v10, the lfa engine i am sure would be on the more gas efficient side. but knowing how it works and also the high rev, i would really want to see how reality sets in with the EPA numbers (i think 14/20?). just like the v10 in the m5, EPA numbers and reality is very different. in reality the high rev engine eats up on gas much worse.
plus with the future gas mileage requirement, with the gsf using v10, then other lexus lineup will need to do more to help balance things out
You're right, reality is different, but it all depends how you drive. If you stop-light race an LFA I'm sure you can really bring down the fuel economy, but during regular driving it should be fairly efficient for the power it makes.
However, if you start talking about something like electric-assist turbos, then some of the drawbacks of conventional turbo engines are solved.
10-08-10, 01:43 AM
#861
I'm shocked to hear your A6 interior comments. That would be the first negative view of an Audi interior I've come across in a long long time. Audi interiors are known to use some of the best materials in the industry. Are you sure you just did not like the styling of the interior? Because that I would agree with. The arch over the gauges and top leading edge of the dash looks old-fashioned to me. Also, Audi leather is built tougher and more durable than Lexus leather. It doesn't feel as soft or look as plush, but it lasts a long time.
. I thought it would be a bit above Lexus, but it really felt one class below... everyone who compared our two cars felt the same.Keep in mind that with Audi you can pick different leathers, and this one definitely did not look upscale to me. Also interior was easily scratched. It was fine car, but from all the german mag reviews, it was supposed to blow me away. I was also suprised with the harsh ride, it felt like Toyota and not premium car... and in tests you read how Lexus is harsh and Audi is smooth, it is not true at all, my GS is considerably smoother car... Also transmission shifted harder as well
.So at the end, except for HUGE trunk, there is no way I would get A6... it feels to me (3 year owner of GS) as step below... for similar price, I can get GS450h with everything in it.
Next is 530xd, maybe wagon version. I kind of dont want the GS since I had it for 3 years and it is time to change anyway, plus I want AWD and cant get it here.
10-08-10, 03:43 AM
#862
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i know how it rates, thats why I was disappointed in it . I thought it would be a bit above Lexus, but it really felt one class below... everyone who compared our two cars felt the same.
Keep in mind that with Audi you can pick different leathers, and this one definitely did not look upscale to me. Also interior was easily scratched. It was fine car, but from all the german mag reviews, it was supposed to blow me away. I was also suprised with the harsh ride, it felt like Toyota and not premium car... and in tests you read how Lexus is harsh and Audi is smooth, it is not true at all, my GS is considerably smoother car... Also transmission shifted harder as well.
So at the end, except for HUGE trunk, there is no way I would get A6... it feels to me (3 year owner of GS) as step below... for similar price, I can get GS450h with everything in it.
Next is 530xd, maybe wagon version. I kind of dont want the GS since I had it for 3 years and it is time to change anyway, plus I want AWD and cant get it here.
. I thought it would be a bit above Lexus, but it really felt one class below... everyone who compared our two cars felt the same.Keep in mind that with Audi you can pick different leathers, and this one definitely did not look upscale to me. Also interior was easily scratched. It was fine car, but from all the german mag reviews, it was supposed to blow me away. I was also suprised with the harsh ride, it felt like Toyota and not premium car... and in tests you read how Lexus is harsh and Audi is smooth, it is not true at all, my GS is considerably smoother car... Also transmission shifted harder as well
.So at the end, except for HUGE trunk, there is no way I would get A6... it feels to me (3 year owner of GS) as step below... for similar price, I can get GS450h with everything in it.
Next is 530xd, maybe wagon version. I kind of dont want the GS since I had it for 3 years and it is time to change anyway, plus I want AWD and cant get it here.
10-08-10, 04:46 AM
#863
... I am looking for 2 year old models myself because they drop more than 50% in value in germany these days, which makes them good buys (both A6 and 530xd).
10-08-10, 06:42 AM
#864
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Sounds perfect to ME!!! There is no reason to put a V8 variant in the GSF..
It will be a slightly toned down version of the LFA V-10 motor...
It will also be a $75-$80K solution to get some of that LFA hp..
The GS-F renderings are already on the drawing tables and we will see it within 2 years of this post that I am typing right now.
Joe Z
It will be a slightly toned down version of the LFA V-10 motor...
It will also be a $75-$80K solution to get some of that LFA hp..
The GS-F renderings are already on the drawing tables and we will see it within 2 years of this post that I am typing right now.
Joe Z
10-08-10, 07:14 AM
#865
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The GS350 is about as quick as the GS460 only because the GS460's V8 was deprived of its 380hp potential. If the 550i even with a 408hp twin-turbo V8 needs 5 seconds to go from 0 to 60, I'm fairly sure that the GS can at least match that if given a proper V8 without even needing forced induction. The GS-F can then kick it up another notch by adding a supercharger and some lightness treatments.
Ideally for me, I would love to see;
a 3650lb/330hp GS350
a 3750lb/420hp GS460
a 3859lb/540hp GS F
A GSh with Li batteries and impressive fuel economy would fall ideally between the 350 and 460. Personally, I don't think Lexus would make the GS to come close to those weight targets, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I'm intruiged about the rumored "e-diff", I really want to see the GS make a statement like the 2ng gen, ISF and LFA have.
Like I said before, Motortrend seems to think that Lexus is going to keep the weight down, and if that's the case there's no need for absurd amounts of power. The LFA has 552hp, but it can better cars with over 600hp around race tracks. It's not the lightest car in the woods but it's all about dynamics. Lexus is onto something and I bet the GS-F and regular GS will be much better in that sense than previous cars. If what MT says is true about this torque vectoring technology, I bet it'll be quite the performer. I'm betting Lexus has a few tricks up their sleeve. The IS-F is as fast as the M3, why would the GS-F not be as fast as the M5?
10-08-10, 08:37 AM
#868
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MR_F1 brings up weight. IF and its a big IF Lexus can hold the weight down or even lose weight while gaining the RWD torque vectoring system and steering improves, they could get a magazine darling.
The GS and 5 series used to be lightest in class by far. The new 5 is now based off the bigger heavier 7 so the 5 series is now 3900-4550 lbs! Its heavier than a Panamera in many cases.
Currently the GS 450h weighs 4100lbs (which is accurate as I weighed it at the track and got 4120) which is now lighter than most new V-8 cars in its class.
We have heard rumors the GS isn't growing in size but that would be hard to do since every car in this class now has grown in width, height and length. It would be hard for Lexus to not grow the GS again (the 3GS is only .2 inches longer than the 2GS).
The GS and 5 series used to be lightest in class by far. The new 5 is now based off the bigger heavier 7 so the 5 series is now 3900-4550 lbs! Its heavier than a Panamera in many cases.
Currently the GS 450h weighs 4100lbs (which is accurate as I weighed it at the track and got 4120) which is now lighter than most new V-8 cars in its class.
We have heard rumors the GS isn't growing in size but that would be hard to do since every car in this class now has grown in width, height and length. It would be hard for Lexus to not grow the GS again (the 3GS is only .2 inches longer than the 2GS).
10-08-10, 08:48 AM
#869
MR_F1 brings up weight. IF and its a big IF Lexus can hold the weight down or even lose weight while gaining the RWD torque vectoring system and steering improves, they could get a magazine darling.
The GS and 5 series used to be lightest in class by far. The new 5 is now based off the bigger heavier 7 so the 5 series is now 3900-4550 lbs! Its heavier than a Panamera in many cases.
Currently the GS 450h weighs 4100lbs (which is accurate as I weighed it at the track and got 4120) which is now lighter than most new V-8 cars in its class.
We have heard rumors the GS isn't growing in size but that would be hard to do since every car in this class now has grown in width, height and length. It would be hard for Lexus to not grow the GS again (the 3GS is only .2 inches longer than the 2GS).
The GS and 5 series used to be lightest in class by far. The new 5 is now based off the bigger heavier 7 so the 5 series is now 3900-4550 lbs! Its heavier than a Panamera in many cases.
Currently the GS 450h weighs 4100lbs (which is accurate as I weighed it at the track and got 4120) which is now lighter than most new V-8 cars in its class.
We have heard rumors the GS isn't growing in size but that would be hard to do since every car in this class now has grown in width, height and length. It would be hard for Lexus to not grow the GS again (the 3GS is only .2 inches longer than the 2GS).
it would be super awesome to see drop in weight, though my gut feeling says increase
10-08-10, 11:17 AM
#870
Lexus Champion
Well, if the next IS is based off the next GS, I'm sure keeping weight down in the GS will help keep the weight down in the IS. The weight is a lot of sound deadening materials as well. Lexus is usually among the quietest in it's class. Motortred has been close on plenty of things before. They usually don't say things that are way off the mark, and there's nothing to indicate their statements about the next GS are anything different than mostly on point. The torque vectoring is what were hearing, and let me remind you that Motortrend said this earlier in the year. So they were one of the first to state this, and now it's accepted as pretty much a given on the GS-F, maybe even the regular GS. It's not too hard to keep weight down if the new car isn't going to grow in size. The dimensions are said to be similar, making better use of the space it has. It will grow it width though, we can see this from spy shots of the test mule. Increased track size can help with cornering. I don't see anything wrong with what MT is reporting. Everything has to be taken with a grain of salt but they seem pretty accurate to me.