SLegacy99

I would think that the next generation would help, given that the current wasn't designed with the intention of being a hybrid. Or at least I doubt that it was. As for the V8, I'd prefer to see a GS550-600h as opposed to a 460.

pagemaster

This is a right move by Lexus.

The current GS is priced to high in every configuration. Moving it down a step is a good idea with GS250. The GSF will replace the GS460 which is also the right move because the GS460 really is pointless.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

gs is priced too high? we run out of words on competitors

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

You do know that GS is in the same segment as the 5-series, E-class and A6 right? Do you know how much those cost? No? Well then... Google is your friend...

Also, if the GS460 is pointless then the 550i, E550 and A6 4.2 are all pointless... Is that what you are trying to say?

Do you even KNOW what are coming out of your mouth (or fingers in this case....)?

Mister Two

While I strongly disagree that the idea of the GS460 is pointless for the reasons the posters above me have mentioned, I agree that the current GS460 is quite pointless because of its crippled engine output rendering it barely if at all faster than the GS350 while consuming more fuel.

I certainly expect/hope the next GS will be packaged a lot better to fit a big engine without crippling it.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i agree with this statement. if the current gs460 pushes the same 380hp as the ls460, then the car is very "pointful"

spwolf

lets hope so... they reconfigured both GS450h and LS600h to get bigger trunk space, admitting that it was an problem. Such mid life changes are very unusual for toyota/lexus...

... I spoke to one regional Toyota exec here about GS450h when it just came out, and he was telling me that trunk did not matter as it was 2nd or 3rd car in the family. Thank god they saw error of their ways ;-).

(Cj)

Agreed.

Lexus can pull some of it's weight, but my point is that's it's not completely neccessary, especially with Toyota launching more Prius branded 50+mpg cars and plug in Priuses in the near future. Lexus should continue to be the most fuel efficient luxury car brand but it doesn't need to pull it's ENTIRE weight where CAFE numbers are concerned.

I also believe that there will be a V8 GS with the next generation, but fyi the current V8 sold pretty well initially but once the competition caught up and added more hp to their V8s the GS460 lost it's appeal and after that the majority sold were V6s. If Lexus makes the next V8 in the GS competitive (meaning a minimum of 380hp but preferably 400+hp) than sales of V8 GS's will pick up, especially if it retains class leading efficiency.

I also agree that they need to improve the packaging of the hybrid model, but if Lexus uses Lithium Ion batteries, there's going to be a ton more space in the trunk. They also need to pump up the hp on the hybrid model. If the Prius can have an 80hp electric motor the GS should have one too. I'm hoping they can get a total output of 400hp on the hybrid (even if it means raising the price into the low $60s USD).

(Cj)

WTF? Does every Lexus have to be $35K lol

If the IS can have a 5.0L V8 the GS surely can also

spwolf

I think you are mis-reading electric motor strenght (difference between max power from the battery and max electric power), GS450h has far bigger motors than Prius ;-). Thats why it flies like it does. And it does fly.

And on the other hand, i hope they do not go crazy with the engine. They can use setup similar to RX450h, with bigger electric motors to make it go faster. Next GS450h should be at least 10% lighter than RX. That is if we want it to be more fuel efficient than before, and GS would probably gain up to 10% on RX, if based on similar tech ;-). Those are almost HS250h's numbers ;-).

spwolf

p.s. i dont think lexus will put lithium batteries in the GS, yet... they probably cost the double, and you would save half of the weight of batteries alone (not whole system)... which is not that much 30-40kg at maximum... I would like that GS450h would be ateinable to me, which means mid 50's max... might seem selfish, but it should be model that sells well. they need to keep the price down.

LexFather

Ignore him....its been nice here but seems like he is back to stir the pot

(Cj)

Thanks for the info on the battery tech! But I believe Lexus is going to make the GSh more performance versus efficiency focused. The RX and HS are more on the efficiency side of the equation so I expect them to maximize horsepower and torque on the electric system for the GS and make high performance the number one goal (meaning 400hp should be attainable).

But I could be wrong. With an F model coming, then the hybrid doesn't have to be as performance focused, also over there in Europe the HS isn't sold so I can see the desire for a more fuel efficient hybrid sedan.

Lexus may sell a GS300h (2.5L + electric motor) over there to satisfy the more efficiency focused people in Europe and Asia, but in the US where the HS and potentially an ES hybrid is sold, Lexus can go all out performance with the hybrid

(Cj)

Haha. The upcoming Infiniti M hybrid has lithium ion batteries, and most of the German hybrids have them. Even the plug in Prius has them. I think it would be logical for Lexus to showcase the new batteries on the next GS.

Yes the price would be higher but so would the performance and efficiency. It also makes sense to me because then the V8 and hybrid wouldn't be the same price (which is a "problem" now). The hybrid could then slot between the top level V8 and F model in price and performance.

And I'm talking about the US here anyway. Most of the sales will be V6s regardless, even if the hybrid was priced below the V8. Having a V8 and high powered hybrid just adds to the prestige and interest of the GS line.

spwolf

German hybrids are mostly not real hybrids, and ones that are full hybrids, have nimh batteries ;-). There would be no significant performance or fuel benefits. You save 40kg and pay 2-3k for it. Dont get sucked into the hype, would you pay 2k-3k for 40kg less weight?

GS was already performance hybrid. It was faster than V8, and at speed acceleration was even faster than 460. Just ask mike ;-).

And guess what - people did not buy it. With RX's setup + larger electric motors than RX, it would have around the same speed as 2009 GS 450h, yet get at least 10% extra efficiency. Imagine sub 6 second times, and 32 MPG average? and 55k nicely equipped!