4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
02-10-11 | 09:51 AM
#1351
if it has the lfa engine, put it the other way, i don't think it will be under 100k. you have to read about the construction of that engine
and what does engine by itself has to do with the price of a car? coz' it's v10? v8 in e63 makes the car 100k. there are a lot more that goes into a car to determine the price (granted, that doesn't make me think 100k on e63 and m5 is reasonable)
and what does engine by itself has to do with the price of a car? coz' it's v10? v8 in e63 makes the car 100k. there are a lot more that goes into a car to determine the price (granted, that doesn't make me think 100k on e63 and m5 is reasonable)
I mean, if you think about it. How much is the car going to cost without the engine, without the sport suspension and other modified parts the GSF might have? I'd say around $35K? Now there is a $40K gap, between the 35 and 75K. And I really think that the engine, suspension and other parts fit well in that $40k range.
02-10-11 | 11:36 AM
#1352
I do think a V10 or V12 makes it easier for people to justify paying a premium.
Conversely, if you look at the X5:
xDrive50, 4.4 V8 Twinpower Turbo with 400 hp and 450 lbft of torque, $58k
X5M, 4.4 V8 M Twinpower Turbo with 555hp and 500 lbft of torque, $85k
Dinan xDrive50 4.4V8 Twinpower Turbo has 495hp and 570 lbft, $61k
So option 3 - Dinan significantly reduces the price-value of the M model because they can achieve similar engine performance increase at a fraction of cost. Yes there are other differences - suspension, brakes, cosmetics. But this option 3 didn't exist when these cars were naturally aspirated.
So my point is simple - the move by German OEMs to FI has diminished the value proposition of their tuner sub-brands.
Conversely, if you look at the X5:
xDrive50, 4.4 V8 Twinpower Turbo with 400 hp and 450 lbft of torque, $58k
X5M, 4.4 V8 M Twinpower Turbo with 555hp and 500 lbft of torque, $85k
Dinan xDrive50 4.4V8 Twinpower Turbo has 495hp and 570 lbft, $61k
So option 3 - Dinan significantly reduces the price-value of the M model because they can achieve similar engine performance increase at a fraction of cost. Yes there are other differences - suspension, brakes, cosmetics. But this option 3 didn't exist when these cars were naturally aspirated.
So my point is simple - the move by German OEMs to FI has diminished the value proposition of their tuner sub-brands.
but i think that's also party why bmw goes with FI on their m cars as well. one can talk about dinan normal lineup, but imagine a dinan m car, it just pushes the bar even higher
Yeah, with the LFA engine it will never be under 100k that is for sure. Which is why I said that if they are going to use the ISF engine, then the car will most likely cost around 75K.
I mean, if you think about it. How much is the car going to cost without the engine, without the sport suspension and other modified parts the GSF might have? I'd say around $35K? Now there is a $40K gap, between the 35 and 75K. And I really think that the engine, suspension and other parts fit well in that $40k range.
I mean, if you think about it. How much is the car going to cost without the engine, without the sport suspension and other modified parts the GSF might have? I'd say around $35K? Now there is a $40K gap, between the 35 and 75K. And I really think that the engine, suspension and other parts fit well in that $40k range.
i see your point, but what i am trying to say is one shouldn't just look at the engine (or suspension or anything else) and determine the price. it should be the overall package (maybe even include the luxury / gadget aspect) and see what its value should be.
with all that say, i personally think 80k is a good spot for the gsf, if they make it. again that's assuming they have on par hp numbers and performance aspect. if not, it will be one resistance. on the other hand, if the price of the car hits 90k, that's going to be another tough selling point too
02-10-11 | 01:04 PM
#1353
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,277
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From: USA
i see your point, but what i am trying to say is one shouldn't just look at the engine (or suspension or anything else) and determine the price. it should be the overall package (maybe even include the luxury / gadget aspect) and see what its value should be.
with all that say, i personally think 80k is a good spot for the gsf, if they make it. again that's assuming they have on par hp numbers and performance aspect. if not, it will be one resistance. on the other hand, if the price of the car hits 90k, that's going to be another tough selling point too
with all that say, i personally think 80k is a good spot for the gsf, if they make it. again that's assuming they have on par hp numbers and performance aspect. if not, it will be one resistance. on the other hand, if the price of the car hits 90k, that's going to be another tough selling point too
Would be great if GSF is AWD
02-10-11 | 02:32 PM
#1354
The other factor I think will be interesting with F10 M5 will be whether the M5 has AWD. With the hp wars, these cars are beginning to reach limits of traction. The 550xi Dinan is noticeable quicker off the line than the 550i. You see same thing with Panamera S and 4S.
Would be great if GSF is AWD
Would be great if GSF is AWD
i thought cars lost traction long ago already
even with my gs400 and 275 tires, i could light it up any time. my m3 with 265 ps2, same thing
02-10-11 | 02:53 PM
#1355
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,277
Likes: 3
From: USA
personally i don't think (and i don't know) that the f10 m5 is awd. i rather have a rwd performance car all the time. audi is the only one i would look at awd
i thought cars lost traction long ago already even with my gs400 and 275 tires, i could light it up any time. my m3 with 265 ps2, same thing
i thought cars lost traction long ago already
even with my gs400 and 275 tires, i could light it up any time. my m3 with 265 ps2, same thing
02-10-11 | 06:57 PM
#1356
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Posts: n/a
and CDNRockies lolWe are in the market to buy a new car this year. As it stands, I am only interested in V8 models. There is no way I would sell one of my V8 sport sedans for a V6...even if it has 320 hp. I want the grunt of the V8, the sound of the V8 and the prestige of the V8. There is nothing more fun than a torque monsterious V8. I think it would be a mistake for Lexus to drop the V8 model, even if they bring a GSF on board! Currently the Mercedes E550 is looking like the winner for the money. As far as I'm concerned, a middle weight, sport sedan like this must offer a V8. I would love to love the new GS, but if it looks anything like the bland car in the photos, I'll pass.
FYI, according to Japanese car magazine, they expect the price of GSF in Japan will be in range between 9M yen and 10M yen.
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold at the price of 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold at the price of 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
The other factor I think will be interesting with F10 M5 will be whether the M5 has AWD. With the hp wars, these cars are beginning to reach limits of traction. The 550xi Dinan is noticeable quicker off the line than the 550i. You see same thing with Panamera S and 4S.
Would be great if GSF is AWD
Would be great if GSF is AWD
Also guys remember the M3 and IS F are outmatched by the C63 and CTS-V but all 4 sell. Lexus has some great attributes that people want.
02-10-11 | 07:02 PM
#1357
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,277
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From: USA
CTS-V is a great car though - comfortable, well made, luxurious, and fast as hell. I really consider it the benchmark in the compact sedan segment.
If the GSF were the CTS-V of the mid-size segment, combined with the best-in-the-world reliability and dealer network, this would establish F-Sport as a leader.
02-11-11 | 03:20 PM
#1358
02-11-11 | 04:05 PM
#1359
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,277
Likes: 3
From: USA
Since they made the Genesis and the Equus.
They may not be a luxury brand, but they are a luxury car manufacturer.
BTW The Genesis R-Spec is an impressive product. I'm a badge snob and I like paying for posh dealerships so I wouldn't do it, but I really think this is the sensible man's buy.
They may not be a luxury brand, but they are a luxury car manufacturer.
BTW The Genesis R-Spec is an impressive product. I'm a badge snob and I like paying for posh dealerships so I wouldn't do it, but I really think this is the sensible man's buy.
02-11-11 | 10:13 PM
#1360
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Posts: n/a
Hmmm, the 3GS debuted in 2004 at the Detroit Auto Show. It was sold in Feb 05 as an 06 model.
So if Lexus had kept that cycle, the 4GS would have debuted in Detroit last month to be sold in Feb 12 as a 13 model.
LFA "Ring" model officially debuts in Geneva next month. Maybe the GS as well?
So if Lexus had kept that cycle, the 4GS would have debuted in Detroit last month to be sold in Feb 12 as a 13 model.
LFA "Ring" model officially debuts in Geneva next month. Maybe the GS as well?
02-12-11 | 11:42 AM
#1361
Hmmm, the 3GS debuted in 2004 at the Detroit Auto Show. It was sold in Feb 05 as an 06 model.
So if Lexus had kept that cycle, the 4GS would have debuted in Detroit last month to be sold in Feb 12 as a 13 model.
LFA "Ring" model officially debuts in Geneva next month. Maybe the GS as well?
So if Lexus had kept that cycle, the 4GS would have debuted in Detroit last month to be sold in Feb 12 as a 13 model.
LFA "Ring" model officially debuts in Geneva next month. Maybe the GS as well?
but yeah, i think they definitely should break up the time between 4gs and 3is
02-13-11 | 02:55 PM
#1362
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: NYC Raised But ATL is where I stay.
02-15-11 | 08:56 PM
#1363
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Joined: Dec 2010
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02-16-11 | 10:37 PM
#1364
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Nov 2010
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http://www.coolpicturegallery.net/20...iced-from.html
Wow, If this is the new GS I'll also be disappointed.
But I found this pic of CT200
If you see the background / trees/ road.
Seems to me the magazine pic is a photoshop image... what you guys think?
Wow, If this is the new GS I'll also be disappointed.
But I found this pic of CT200
If you see the background / trees/ road.
Seems to me the magazine pic is a photoshop image... what you guys think?
