4th Generation GS Reviews Thread
03-25-12, 08:53 AM
#211
Lexus Champion
They picked the Audi or BMW, despite common sense. Now they are still picking the Audi or BMW.
03-25-12, 04:10 PM
#212
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So basically that would mean their comparisons in the past were invalid. That means the metrics Lexus (and others) used to dominate in outside of sport in the past should have mattered more in those comparisons.
I glanced around and its hilarious that people commenting on this comparison didn't really read it and seem to solely be talking about the GS exterior looks and how fast the Audi is and THAT IS IT.
Enthusiasts? lol
Again Lexus shouldn't feel bad at all here. It's clear the Lexus was the sportier car which was a Lexus goal with the GS and it really only lost by what 6-7 points to a more expensive vehicle.
(side commentary, it is painfully obvious if the GS had a new engine(s) they really might have catapulted to the top)
03-25-12, 04:36 PM
#213
And mind you, its not like any car tested is bad. In this particular case, the A7 will be much rarer, some people prefer the looks, the hatchback gives it some great cargo usage and it is very quick. The A7 is clearly a good car.This isn't 1999, every entrant seems to be on point. What is utterly amusing is Lexus now has arguably the best driving car and sportiest in the segment and that still is not good enough. How many times has the slower car or the more expensive car won b/c it was sportier? These magazines for the past decade has really pushed the needle to sport in comparisons, Lexus responded in kind and now the other metrics matter more?
So basically that would mean their comparisons in the past were invalid. That means the metrics Lexus (and others) used to dominate in outside of sport in the past should have mattered more in those comparisons.
I glanced around and its hilarious that people commenting on this comparison didn't really read it and seem to solely be talking about the GS exterior looks and how fast the Audi is and THAT IS IT.
Enthusiasts? lol
Again Lexus shouldn't feel bad at all here. It's clear the Lexus was the sportier car which was a Lexus goal with the GS and it really only lost by what 6-7 points to a more expensive vehicle.
(side commentary, it is painfully obvious if the GS had a new engine(s) they really might have catapulted to the top)
So basically that would mean their comparisons in the past were invalid. That means the metrics Lexus (and others) used to dominate in outside of sport in the past should have mattered more in those comparisons.
I glanced around and its hilarious that people commenting on this comparison didn't really read it and seem to solely be talking about the GS exterior looks and how fast the Audi is and THAT IS IT.
Enthusiasts? lol
Again Lexus shouldn't feel bad at all here. It's clear the Lexus was the sportier car which was a Lexus goal with the GS and it really only lost by what 6-7 points to a more expensive vehicle.
(side commentary, it is painfully obvious if the GS had a new engine(s) they really might have catapulted to the top)
this is how usually their winners were decided in the past, ie "Lexus might be reliable, last forever, and if this was other magazine, we would call it a winner. But for us, the most important is how the car drives and so Audi/BMW win because they just feel best to drive".
:-)
03-25-12, 05:11 PM
#214
And mind you, its not like any car tested is bad. In this particular case, the A7 will be much rarer, some people prefer the looks, the hatchback gives it some great cargo usage and it is very quick. The A7 is clearly a good car.This isn't 1999, every entrant seems to be on point. What is utterly amusing is Lexus now has arguably the best driving car and sportiest in the segment and that still is not good enough. How many times has the slower car or the more expensive car won b/c it was sportier? These magazines for the past decade has really pushed the needle to sport in comparisons, Lexus responded in kind and now the other metrics matter more?
So basically that would mean their comparisons in the past were invalid. That means the metrics Lexus (and others) used to dominate in outside of sport in the past should have mattered more in those comparisons.
I glanced around and its hilarious that people commenting on this comparison didn't really read it and seem to solely be talking about the GS exterior looks and how fast the Audi is and THAT IS IT.
Enthusiasts? lol
Again Lexus shouldn't feel bad at all here. It's clear the Lexus was the sportier car which was a Lexus goal with the GS and it really only lost by what 6-7 points to a more expensive vehicle.
(side commentary, it is painfully obvious if the GS had a new engine(s) they really might have catapulted to the top)
So basically that would mean their comparisons in the past were invalid. That means the metrics Lexus (and others) used to dominate in outside of sport in the past should have mattered more in those comparisons.
I glanced around and its hilarious that people commenting on this comparison didn't really read it and seem to solely be talking about the GS exterior looks and how fast the Audi is and THAT IS IT.
Enthusiasts? lol
Again Lexus shouldn't feel bad at all here. It's clear the Lexus was the sportier car which was a Lexus goal with the GS and it really only lost by what 6-7 points to a more expensive vehicle.
(side commentary, it is painfully obvious if the GS had a new engine(s) they really might have catapulted to the top)
I agree Lexus shouldn't be concerned. They still have luxury oriented cars with the LS and ES.
03-25-12, 05:50 PM
#215
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i doubt engine would change anything, they clearly said that lexus is the sportier and the one that they would want do drive.
this is how usually their winners were decided in the past, ie "Lexus might be reliable, last forever, and if this was other magazine, we would call it a winner. But for us, the most important is how the car drives and so Audi/BMW win because they just feel best to drive".
:-)
this is how usually their winners were decided in the past, ie "Lexus might be reliable, last forever, and if this was other magazine, we would call it a winner. But for us, the most important is how the car drives and so Audi/BMW win because they just feel best to drive".
:-)
I completely agree with your last paragraph. So the reviewers said they were prefer to drive the GS yet it loses? As you stated this used to be the EXACT phrases used in old comparisons to award a German car in the past. Now it no longer applies!!
Again this is no slap or slight to the A7. These inconsistent reviews are a travesty to the people that read them. I used to read them like the bible as a youth. How many youths are fooled with these reviews?
What is the next cop out?
Good observation. I've noticed that other brands are making their car more isolated while Lexus went for more sport. The very thing others complained about with Lexus the other brands are emulating. Makes sense too. Lexus was king. In the auto world, success is easily copied.
I agree Lexus shouldn't be concerned. They still have luxury oriented cars with the LS and ES.
I agree Lexus shouldn't be concerned. They still have luxury oriented cars with the LS and ES.
Sales show consumers are very happy with the GS, which is the bottom line (in its first month
). Heads are exploding. Lexus/Toyota are making some of the sportiest vehicles around. These fake enthusiasts are not too pleased.
03-25-12, 06:53 PM
#216
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Exactly. We are living in a blending world, noted by a few of us a couple of years ago. There seems to be all brands merging to the middle. Brands that were less sporty in the past are more sporty. Brands that focused more on sport now focus on luxury as well.
Sales show consumers are very happy with the GS, which is the bottom line (in its first month
). Heads are exploding. Lexus/Toyota are making some of the sportiest vehicles around. These fake enthusiasts are not too pleased.
Nah must just be hatred.
03-25-12, 06:56 PM
#218
03-25-12, 07:18 PM
#219
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If you actually took the time to read the review, you would see they scored both the A7 and GS a 15 for exterior styling the highest score a car can get.
Don't join here just to argue, twist words, make things up without even reading the article in question. I clearly stated the powertrain for the GS is an opportunity for Lexus.
03-25-12, 07:33 PM
#220
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You're kidding right? How do you think the TL would have fared if it had actually been non-ugly. To suggest that a beautiful car might not have a leg up on the competition, or conversely a car best described as polarizing might get demerits based on looks is not looking at previous comparisons objectively.
03-25-12, 07:42 PM
#221
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Ahhhh yes, exactly what I mean by people that don't read reviews. Did anyone mention hatred?
If you actually took the time to read the review, you would see they scored both the A7 and GS a 15 for exterior styling the highest score a car can get.
Don't join here just to argue, twist words, make things up without even reading the article in question. I clearly stated the powertrain for the GS is an opportunity for Lexus.
If you actually took the time to read the review, you would see they scored both the A7 and GS a 15 for exterior styling the highest score a car can get.
Don't join here just to argue, twist words, make things up without even reading the article in question. I clearly stated the powertrain for the GS is an opportunity for Lexus.
Have always love the current LS and the IS and IS-F.
But I can be objective in that the new GS is no looker, and the performace is only midpack. It's a fine car, but to pretend that there is no possible reason someone could prefer another car (even if it's only by a slight margin) is not reasonable.
03-25-12, 07:54 PM
#222
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I don't hate Lexus, far from it. I absolutely love the new GS interior, and based on reviews it handles amazingly well. I just wish there was a better powertrain to match the car (or at least a timeline for a newer engine).
Have always love the current LS and the IS and IS-F.
But I can be objective in that the new GS is no looker, and the performace is only midpack. It's a fine car, but to pretend that there is no possible reason someone could prefer another car (even if it's only by a slight margin) is not reasonable.
Have always love the current LS and the IS and IS-F.
But I can be objective in that the new GS is no looker, and the performace is only midpack. It's a fine car, but to pretend that there is no possible reason someone could prefer another car (even if it's only by a slight margin) is not reasonable.
You brought the word hate into the conversation. You might not think the GS is a looker. It sold 3rd best in class last month and over 1,000 units over the 4th place finisher. It is back selling at its solid 3rd place. The review again gave it a 15 for looks, tied with the A7 and the highest score a car can get for looks. I don't have to explain myself to you on what I think about the looks, its well documented here but cliffs, I am not in love with it. No one is saying not to like another car in class.
We are laughing at how sport used to be the determining factor in a car to win a review and now sport is no longer the determining factor since Lexus makes arguably the sportiest car in class. I think you should take the time to read the review and read what people are saying before jumping to conclusions to argue.
03-25-12, 07:56 PM
#223
I still ended up being a Toyota/Lexus fan - but that was mostly based on the reliability of the two cars I was comparing as a kid (a VW Jetta, Toyota 4Runner, and Merc E300 - can you guess which one outlasted all the rest?).
Coming back to this review - the 15 points for styling is being both are probably seen as a toss-up in styling, and they always need to give full points to a "winner", so in the case of a tie, they both get 15. It doesn't mean they're both awesome in design, it could actually mean they're both horrendous.
But yes, all the "driving" criteria, the Lexus wins - but somehow it loses in a magazine called "Road and Track", mostly because of the engine, but also because of the interior space.
03-25-12, 08:05 PM
#224
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Me too - I used to believe everything I read in car magazines, and now I'm realizing that what I believed was shaped by what I read, which was shaped by someone else's agenda. Oh well...
I still ended up being a Toyota/Lexus fan - but that was mostly based on the reliability of the two cars I was comparing as a kid (a VW Jetta, Toyota 4Runner, and Merc E300 - can you guess which one outlasted all the rest?).
Coming back to this review - the 15 points for styling is being both are probably seen as a toss-up in styling, and they always need to give full points to a "winner", so in the case of a tie, they both get 15. It doesn't mean they're both awesome in design, it could actually mean they're both horrendous.
But yes, all the "driving" criteria, the Lexus wins - but somehow it loses in a magazine called "Road and Track", mostly because of the engine, but also because of the interior space.
I still ended up being a Toyota/Lexus fan - but that was mostly based on the reliability of the two cars I was comparing as a kid (a VW Jetta, Toyota 4Runner, and Merc E300 - can you guess which one outlasted all the rest?).
Coming back to this review - the 15 points for styling is being both are probably seen as a toss-up in styling, and they always need to give full points to a "winner", so in the case of a tie, they both get 15. It doesn't mean they're both awesome in design, it could actually mean they're both horrendous.
But yes, all the "driving" criteria, the Lexus wins - but somehow it loses in a magazine called "Road and Track", mostly because of the engine, but also because of the interior space.
I think in regards to styling (and I was stunned both got a 15, I am not in love with either design) the higher the score the better they like it. Probably most would agree a 15 for both is odd.
You hit the nail on the head with the last part. Now the mag called "Road and Track" doesn't award the car they would rather drive as the winner.
The summary is rather odd.
So what of the results? This race was closer than they usually come, but Audi’s ultimate victory was certainly hard earned and well deserved. Lexus, however, doesn’t leave empty-handed either, finally earning some contender street cred that further separates it from its somewhat staid, uninspiring image. On a purely emotional front, it’s the F Sport that gets our attention, as it’s the car both Kim and I are most excited to drive at the end of the day. But for now, our hats go off to the Audi A7.
Hell the summary mostly talks about the GS and doesn't even explain why the A7 won. What a weird summary, English 101 would be displeased
03-26-12, 05:49 AM
#225
You're kidding right? How do you think the TL would have fared if it had actually been non-ugly. To suggest that a beautiful car might not have a leg up on the competition, or conversely a car best described as polarizing might get demerits based on looks is not looking at previous comparisons objectively.
This thread is about our frustration over the slap Lexus cars received for not being sporty enough over the years. Lexus finally makes a sportier sedan but they move the target to more luxurious. Its not logical...which means it was never about the product. People love to hate the brand at the top. Thats the only explanation here.
As for you...I think it would be better if you were less polarizing in your approach. You're new here. Nothing wrong with saying your point but try to be more careful. You only get one chance to make a first impression.