vwwtchr

You were talking about why the new GS didn't win the comparison. I'm saying that looks can easily sway which car wins when the cars are extremely close. The new GS in performance and handling is right up there with the class (and in handling is probably tops in class), but there are other criteria, and looks are one of them.

Why not accept that the new GS is a great start, but there are a few areas that need improvement, some will be easy (engine, tranny), some won't (polarizing looks).

It's okay to say Lexus has built a class competitive car with no other qualifiers. Not every model from every maker can be tops in each class. It's just not possible.

LexFather

Why are you here making things up then spreading filth and propaganda on other websites about CL and myself? No where has anyone said the GS is untouchable and no one has said the GS doesn't have opportunities. This forum is filled with good debates and points on where the GS could improve including looks and powertrain.

You are not reading, you are just here to prod and instigate then run back to another site and insult people here. We already stated the GS only lost by a few points what we are saying is why all of the sudden sport, usually the main factor in a sport sedan review is suddenly not as important. This suddenly coincides when the GS is sportier than the Audi in both comparisons. Thus we are questioning when did all of the sudden did sport, in a sport sedan comapro, not weigh as much?? In the past Lexus and others lost points in comparisons for not being sporty or as sporty.

That is the simple point we are questioning and debating.

spwolf

if you actually read the review, they rated (by points) looks of the both cars the same. So looks is not why it won.

I personally love how A7 looks, i dont like it $20k more though :-).

Mr. Burns

Their sound level measurements must be a typo, there is no way a GS will register 74db, not even a Corolla is that loud at 70mph. They either mistyped a "7" instead of a "6" or were talking when taking measurements. Going to a more trusted source, Insideline's sound measurements of the GS F-sport are as follows:

Which is comparable to their measurements of the A7:

So this R&T comparison is BS in more ways than one.

Out of all the GS trim levels they picked the F-sport, which strongly implies they were after the more entertaining car. The GS is their favorite in that regard, but loses the comparison to the larger, heavier, and less dynamic A7 (itself a very nice car). Questioning this logic is valid, because if there was a role reversal here they would never pick the softer car (which is how Lexus has been treated in the past in these comparos). The reason they picked the A7, in their own words, is "torque". You have a lot of torque available at low RPMs thanks to the supercharger, and it makes the Audi go like heck. But there are a lot of muscle cars that offer that, surely this parameter alone is not a deciding factor when trying to find the sportiest car.

This is all ignoring that the comparison is flawed from the get go. The A7 is larger, heavier, and considerably more expensive than the GS, with a different mission. Comparing them makes as much sense as comparing the A6 to the CLS.

Mr. Burns

How can you be objective about something so subjective? And the GS can be a stunning looker in the right guise.







Evil looking car that can hold its own standing next to any top trim Audi A6.

natnut

Regarding the Road and Track comparison of the GS350 F-Sport vs the A7.

One online comment sums it all up(from the Lexus Enthusiast Blog) :

That is all that needs to be said LOL.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

Awesome quote.

mehran888

Did anyone read this?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

I don't get it - did this guy drive the same car(s) I did? Does he have it out for Lexus? I can understand not liking the car - but calling it boring and comparing it to someone's couch? Really? Has he driven anything else in its class?

ydooby

Wow.. comfy couch? Seriously?

"For one thing, this car handles like Aunt Lillian's comfy couch. There is so much under-damped chassis movement, even in Sport+ mode, that the car threatens to come unstuck, bounding with increasing amplitude across less-than-perfect roads. It feels downright miserable when pushed. And this is the case even though Lexus has revised the GS to make it wider, and overhauled the suspension, now comprising all-alloy double wishbones in front and multilink in back. An active suspension damping system is available; my test car suggests the GS chassis is lost without a more interventionist damping system."

natnut

Sounds like he came into the test drive with preconceived notions of how a Lexus should drive and refused to admit what his own senses were telling him : That the GS350 is a dynamically sound car and will give any German car a run for its money in the handling stakes. Most objective empirical testing have shown the GS350 putting superior numbers to its equivalent German counterpart.

mehran888

Maybe he drove his neighbours 1995 ES300 and didn't realize Lexus has different models?

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

This reviewer in the WSJ is an idiot. He did not really use the Sport + mode as he did not have the F-Sport but rather a premium version GS. Thus he did not get the feel for the sharper F-Sport. This guy is boring overrall.

He reviewed the 2011 BMW 535i and said

Everything you want, except fun!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...lumn?track=rss

Jeez!!

My F-Sport is much more engaging than my 2011 BMW 5. This guy is dated and should drive a focus instead.

GS69

RoadTest:
2013 Lexus GS 350

Having sampled the latest Lexus GS 350 at its launch, which included hot laps at Laguna Seca raceway, it’s always interesting to drive the same vehicle on home turf, just doing the things 1 normally does with a car. This aspect is particularly meaningful when the gap between preview and 1st drive is but a few weeks. In some instances, it teaches that the initial impression was wide of the mark — many previews are conducted so as to showcase the new car in its best possible light. Invariably, this means it never shines quite as brightly when driven away from that venue. In this case, it served to reinforce my 1st impressions — the GS is as much sports car as it is luxury sedan.

At the preview, I was impressed by just how light the full-bodied GS felt on its tires. It felt no less lithe on home turf. The adaptive suspension does a very good job of quelling body roll without beating the riders up on a rough road. Likewise, the steering is both poised and precise. The latter is accentuated when the test subject is wearing the F Sport package — it brings a better variable-rate steering rack and, on the rear-drive car, active rear steering. The latter can turn the rear wheels by up to 2 degrees, which improves the turn-in and overall precision. The F Sport option brings a number of other upgrades. Along with better seats and a steering wheel that has a pleasing heft to it come boy racer pedals and a body kit that adds some sporting flair, as well as better P235/40 front and P265/35 rear tires mounted on attractive alloy rims. It also allows the driver to tweak the manner in which the GS drives. Along with the Normal and Eco (forget this setting!) modes come Sport and Sport+. The Sport mode alters the throttle and transmission response, while the Sport+ mode also firms the suspension and steering as well as moving the stability control’s intervention point further out. Generally, the Sport mode is the right one for all eventualities. It is accommodating when tooling about town yet sharp enough to tackle a more enthusiastic charge.

The other important F Sport upgrade is found in the brakes. The addition of 2-piece front rotors pushes fade out to the point where it is a non-issue, even after standing on the pedal repeatedly. In the end, the F Sport package is well worth the $7,000 it commands. Indeed, I would not consider the GS without it.

The GS 350 arrives with a 3.5-litre V6 engine that delivers 306 horsepower and 277 pound-feet of torque. The numbers do a surprisingly good job of motivating 1,750 kilograms of leather-lined opulence. I clocked the zero-to-100-kilometres-an-hour run at 6 seconds and the 80-to-120-km/h passing test at 4.7 seconds. Both times are more than up to snuff. Lexus also did a good job of making the GS 350 produce the right noises when it’s worked. The siren is rewardingly throaty — there’s an acoustic amplifier built into the intake system! If there is a powertrain disappointment, it is the number of gears in the transmission. Certainly, the 6 speeds work very well with the engine and the shifts are smooth when loafing along, yet they are snappy when the driver flicks 1 of the steering wheel-mounted paddles. However, given the 7-speed (Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz) and eight-speed (Audi and BMW) boxes that are becoming commonplace, it would behoove Lexus to drop the 8-speed transmission from the LS 430 into the GS 350, especially when it’s equipped with the F Sport package.

On the flip side, the GS 350 F Sport is a true luxury car. The cabin is lined with excellent materials, the leather is 1st-rate and the toys are all in place, up to and including heated and cooled front buckets along with the navigation system that’s included with the F Sport package. As is rapidly becoming the norm, most of the GS’s key functions are accessed via a centrally mounted controller. Yes, there are some standalone buttons, but the deeper functions are accessed through the second-generation Lexus Remote Touch system. It looks after the media, climate, trip, navigation and phone functions. The latter proved to have surprisingly handy features. When an email or text comes into a paired phone, the system allows the driver to open it and have it read aloud by an automated voice. This simple extension eliminated the need to play with my hand-held device.

The only other minor complaint is found in the trunk. As the rear seats are fixed (there’s only a ski pass-through), the volume is capped at 14.3 cubic feet. Thankfully, the space is nicely squared off and, as such, all of it is usable.

The new GS signals a change in philosophy for Lexus. It is still predominantly a luxury car, but it now has the jam needed to be considered a real threat to its German competition. More remarkable is the pricing strategy. The starting point for the 2013 GS 350 is $10,000 less than the GS 300 from a decade ago. Factor in the technological advances, increased content, better performance and superior fuel economy and the latest GS is a real bargain.

THE SPECS

Type of vehicle: Rear-wheel-drive sports sedan

Engine: 3.5L DOHC V6

Power: 306 hp @ 6,400 rpm; 277 lb-ft of torque @ 4,800 rpm

Transmission 6-speed manumatic

Brakes: Four-wheel disc with ABS

Tires: P225/50R17

Price: base/as tested: $51,900/$58,950

Destination charge: $1,950

Transport Canada fuel economy L/100 km: 10.7 city, 7.1 hwy.

Standard features: Tri-zone automatic climate control, power locks, windows, heated mirrors and sunroof, cruise control, heated/cooled power 10-way front seats, leather, power tilt and telescopic steering wheel, AM/FM/XM/CD/MP3 audio with 12 speakers, Bluetooth, smart key with push button start, electrochromatic rear-view mirror, Remote Touch controller

Options: F Sport package ($7,050), including voice activated navigation system with 12.3-inch screen, heated steering wheel, sport+ mode, active front/rear-wheel steering, P235/40R19 front/P265/35R19 rear tires, larger brakes, 16-way driver’s seat, power trunk close, body kit, sport pedals

peteharvey

I tested one last week.
Here is what I believe to be the strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths:
The new spindle front end is good.
The boot is a little larger than before, but no match for a capacious front drive Camry!
The interior has higher seats, and there is a little more head room; no match for a Camry though.
At idle, the insulation is even more impressive than the outgoing model.
Also, cruising along, the new model is even more isolated than it's predecessor.
The power steering is now actually lighter, yet more feel.
It is a little sharper than before.
The ride has improved substantially.
The old GS was a little too soft on the springs, too soft on the dampers resulting in floatiness, and too short in travel, always bottoming out.
The new GS has such long travel, like a truly large car etc.
The new GS is a fraction firmer in the springs for greater steering sharpness.
It is also slightly better damped for less floatiness.
However, the travel is really long now, giving an impressively comfortable ride.
The body structure is also more rigid than before, with no squeaks and rattles in around the glove box and the central console like the old model.
The handling is better, but not a great deal; the 5 Series is still firmer on the springs and sharper than the GS.
The current model IS250 would simply leave the new GS behind for dead on a handling circuit.
The new GS 2.5L V6 is not actually an IS250 engine.
Now it has bags of bottom end torque!

The new GS has an impressively improved equipment list including:
Fully electric boot closing.
Much more adjustments for driver's seat.
Fully automatic parking brake, synchronised with the "P" setting on the auto tranny.
Significantly more powerful, more effortless, and cleaner hi-fi system.
Clearer sat nav display.
Blind spot and lane changing indicators.
Auto dipping hi beam.
Head-up display.
Rear window sunshades.
Rear adjustment for fore/aft of front passenger seat, to improve rear chauffer driven passenger legroom.
Rear adjustment of temperature, fanspeed, and stereo system.

Overall, the greatest advancement of the new GS is the longer suspension travel benefiting the ride a great deal!!!
There is also a little more room, more bottom end torque, lighter steering with more feel and more sharpness, and heaps of equipment.
The GS now has the very best engine, ride and refinement in it's class.


Weaknesses:
However, the brake cooling intakes and the foglights are bland.
The C pillar area is bland; the old GS C pillar treatment, or the C pillar treatment on the LS would be much better.
The new GS tail is very bland, some likening it to a Hyundai Sonata; the tail is no match for the prototype which it is based on.
Constructively, the GS tail end styling should have taken off the LS, or at least the IS, or even a refinement of the old GS tail end styling!
The interior styling is complex, untidy, boring, designed for the older person aka 60+, and will age very quickly; Benz and Beamer have GS beaten solidly here!
The interior only has a little more headroom, not a great deal, and certainly no match for an E Class or 5 Series.
Disappointingly, the rear foot room is only a little bigger than before; just a touch roomier - very disappointing.
The rear leg room, and the rear hip room seems to have actually diminished!
Although the new 2.5 V6 has bags of bottom end torque, it is moderately louder, and not as smooth.
The hi fi system has lost the 6 disc stacker! Now it only takes 1 disc, and it relies on you using an mp3 device.
Remember, mp3 music is actually compressed music! Not for the purist, but for 99% of the population, it sounds fine.

The greatest drawback of the new 2012 GS lies in the poor styling, outside and inside!
Then there's the louder engines, something that is not Lexus-like, but bearable.


Conclusion
Overall, the new GS is a mixed bag compared with the old model.
In comes the superb stiffer platform and super duper ride, with lighter power steering with more feel, and greater sharpness, and a brilliant stereo.
Out goes the slick, and timeless styling, and the insulated engines.

Thus, the old GS had style, but fair mechanicals.
The new GS has the mechanicals, but only fair style.

The E Class and the 5 Series will continue to romp away with sales.
The main advantage of the E Class and 5 Series over the new GS is two fold:
(1) new GS poor styling inside and out, and
(2) GS's slightly smaller interior.
If the new GS had retained the old GS's quietness under acceleration, then that would be a big boon to the new GS.

However, this new GS should be able to solidly kill and outsell the Audi A6 and the Jag XF this time around.
Btw, the unconventional styling of the Infiniti M37 has no hope of competing against the new Lexus GS.


Edit: Looking at some of the photos in this particular thread, the new GS does grow on you.
It seems to look better [or at least more satisfactory] in lighter colours where the tail light lenses can stand out?
These are the best photos I've seen of the GS so far.
The GS photos on the Lexus website are terrible.
Maybe I'll have to buy another GS.
Now, only the styling of the sat nav housing remains controversial...













Only the styling of the sat nav housing remains questionable...

natnut

To be fair though, the GS is aimed at other RWD sedans like the Eclass and the 5 series and in regards to boot space, the GS 14.3 cubit feet beats the A6's 14.1, the 5 series 14.0 and the Eclass' 13 cubit feet. The FWD Camry's rear space would beat the A6,E-class and 5 series rear space too. So I'm a little mystified why you're bringing the Camry into this comparison : It's in a totally different league and meant for a completely different purpose.

Regarding the handling and your claims that the 5 series and IS250 are superior on handling, it seems to contradict Motor Trend's slalom times :
Figure 8 slalom times
2013 GS350 F-Sport 25.7s@0.70g
2006 IS350 27.1s@0.64g
2011 IS250 F-Sport 26.1s@0.67 g
E60 535i M-sport 26.5s@0.67g
F10 550i 26.1s@0.70g
Doesn't seem like "The current model IS250 would simply leave the new GS behind for dead." or that the 5 series is superior in handling at all. The current generation V8 5 series and the lighter previous gen E60 5 series(widely acknowledged as being a superior handling 5er compared to this current gen F10) both lose out in slalom times.

Regarding the interior, you are entitled to your opinion of course but your opinion seems at odds to most reviewers who have judged the new GS interior as easily a step up over the E-class and arguably better than the 5 series. In fact the main complaint against the new interior is that is may be too high tech for the older generation!