peteharvey

Presently, I own the GS300, and I'll probably buy the new GS350 too.
However, the new GS350 does have certain strengths and weaknesses.
I want Lexus to do as well as possible against the E Class and the 5 Series.
I know for a fact that in the USA and worldwide, the GS is lagging in sales well behind the E Class and 5 Series very badly, and I would like to see this situation change if possible.
There are certain areas where the new GS can still improve on.

That is interesting that the new GS has more cubic space in the boot than the E and 5; that's great for all of us Clublexus members.
The Camry being front wheel drive is well ahead, with no rear axle.
The A6 is hampered by it's 4WD mechanicals.
I put the Camry's relative size in for comparison purposes only; not to mock the new GS at all.
The new GS's boot size is fine; virtually perfect.
In fact, what Lexus may have done with this GS is to increase the GS's boot on behalf of the hybrid - possibly at the expense of shortening the cabin???
Coz the new cabin feels shorter with less leg room than before; else the seat backrests are thicker?

Handling-wise, the new GS is a little sharper than my recently superseded GS.
I did say originally too, that the GS now has the best engine, ride, and refinement in it's class.
I forgot to add that the new GS has a very good handling/ride balance; almost perfect for this class!
The 5 Series and the Jaguar XF are both a little firmer, especially the Jaguar.
Life is a compromise. Horses for courses. So the 5 and XF don't ride as well.
The 5 and XF will appeal to those who want more performance, at the expense of ride.

I use to own the current model IS250 as well, and due to it's compact size, lighter mass, and much firmer suspension, the IS250 is much sharper, changes directions faster, and has more terminal grip than all the 3/4 size sedans like the 5 Series, Jag XF, E Class etc.
Many years ago, I owned an IS200, and it's the best handling car ever! It was the most go-cart like car, with a small steering wheel, the sharpest and quickest turn-in, the highest terminal grip, and the most chuckable car.
But of course, that's unfair to compare a midsizer against a 3/4 sizer.

As for Motor Trend's slalom times, we must be very careful.
These figures are a guide only.
Unfortunately they are not directly comparable unless made back to back, on the same day, temperature, humidity and conditions etc.
For example, cars will run quicker, with lower fuel consumption on colder days, when the air is more dense.

You know, they use to say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
However, nowadays we know that beauty is a science, and that there are certain traits that make something look beautiful.

I may buy this new GS350 very soon.
However, I must be honest in that the new GS doesn't look as slick as it can be.
The C pillar, and the tail are okay after a while.
The new GS's C pillar and tail are not as instantly as beautiful as the old GS, nor as instantly attractive as the current model LS and RX350 SUV; it just isn't.
Overall, I think the exterior, including the sides and the tail grow on you.
I think the greatest weakness now is the sat nav surround.
The interior is generally not as simple, smooth, and timeless as the old model; rather complicated, more lines, more boxes, fussier, and faster aging; see the two photos below.
The door trims look nice enough; so too the centre console.
Have you ever noticed how cars with sharp lines like the current model E Class, and to a lesser extent the C Class, age very quickly?

The new GS is by no means a perfect car.
However, for all it's shortcomings including the questionable sat nav surround, and the new found louder engine noise on acceleration, personally I still like it more than the E350 and the 535i, and I may buy the GS350 very soon.
However, to outsell the E Class and 5 Series, we know Lexus still has a lot of work to do.
We all want Lexus to at least sell more competitively relative to the E and 5; we don't want new GS sales to be significantly lagging behind the E and 5 like previous generations.
We know that low sales volume is no accident; it is caused by certain traits and deficiencies.

The two greatest factors in diverting customers in the sales race towards the E and 5 would be the new GS's styling, and the still somewhat limited interior space, especially rear foot room.
Mechanically, drive train and suspension, I believe the new GS is superior to the E Class and 5 Series.
The E Class' 3.5 litre 90 degree V6 is coarse, while the 535i's 3 litre turbo has the usual unavoidable turbo lag flat spot, followed by a less controllable turbo boom/turbo thrust characteristics as the turbo kicks in; a naturally aspirated engine is always sweeter and more neutral and controllable.
Lexus would be really smart if they participate in this forum and improve on the GS's weaknesses so that it can one day outsell the E and 5, just like the Cressida from the 1980's, and the number 1 selling Camry today.
We all want Lexus to do better; that's all...




Notice how the old model looks a lot slicker?



Not one of the best angles for the new GS?




The old model interior is simple, clean, smooth, and more timeless in design; it will age more gracefully.



The new GS interior is complex, with lots of lines, and lots of panels and details; it may age quickly.
The centre console and the door trims look nice.
The sat nav surround, and the styling above the glove box is not that slick, and therefore questionable.

This time around, the questionable styling may cost the new GS dearly in the sales race against the E Class and 5 Series.
We should all encourage Lexus to do a more major facelift for the new GS at mid-term, redesigning the tail lights, and the dashboard...

Blackraven

Anyways, commercial break for now.

Here's a casual review of a Lexus GS F-sport.........from North Carolina:

Enjoy

[youtube]-7asJfrCzbQ[/youtube]

jj14

I do wonder what (if any) damage these higher than usual RPMs (5k+ rpms at times in the video) do to the car's engine with just about 100 or so miles on the odo. (and if this car is sold to a customer, do they know about this?)

qualityday

Makes you happy doesn't it?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...luxury_sedans/

ydooby

On paper the A6 should've won, but it's good to see the one that's the most fun to drive wins in the end.

GX4704ME

Great article and +1 for the 4G! I am sure this article will be printed and displayed across Lexus dealerships throughout the U.S. and beyond.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i don't think it will affect anything.

these engines when "tested" at factory they go through all these already

LexPaul

Excellent article. Indeed, Lexus has risen to the challenge and finally over-took the Germans. I never had any doubts, this is the reason the dealers can't keep this car on their lots, the car sells itself. Exterior beautifully executed IMO and the interior is 'light years' ahead of the outgoing model. You can almost sell the car just on the interior alone, This time around the facts were just too hard to ignore and the folks over at Motor Trend were all over the GS in praises. This is a big deal, especially considering the source. I was at the dealer over the weekend and a client advisor told me he attended a coporate meeting, and that he was told that Lexus will now update their cars every 3 years instead of 4 and that more of the LFA technology will be pushed down to the other models, so the best is yet to come.

LexFather

Wow, Motor Trend deserves kudos for awarding the best driving car the winner without any stupid excuses or reasons to award something else.

GS69

2013 Lexus GS 450h 1st Test

Are you 1 of the countless anonymous identities on the Internet threatened by the influx of alternatively propelled vehicles for reasons that go on ad infinitum? If so, you'll be devastated to learn the all-new 2013 Lexus GS 450h we recently tested did not self-implode.

While V-8s and luxury sedans are a vintage union, there's been a divorce with the new GS. Further evidence of the auto industry's pervasive powertrain downsizing trend, the new, 338-horsepower GS 450h has replaced the V-8-powered, 342-hp GS 460 and the 340-hp GS 450h. Lexus' edict to spruce up the GS lineup's handling for the 2013 model year has also furnished the GS 450h with startlingly amenable dynamic behavior, a quality that didn't feel like a priority on the previous gen car. Hybridized, luxurious, and genuinely sporty -- how many vehicles today fit that bill?

The GS 450h has been fitted with much of the latest technological wizardry of the Toyota empire, starting with the 2nd-gen version of Lexus Hybrid Drive. The gas portion of the power-split hybrid system is a 3.5-liter V-6 programmed to operate on the Atkinson cycle with an upgraded D-4S direct/port injection system, a first for the company (the preceding GS 450h had D-4S but ran the Otto cycle). The end result: a 13.0:1 compression ratio (up from 11.8:1), 286 hp (less 6 hp), and 254 pound-feet of torque (less 13 lb-ft). Increasing engine efficiency plays a hefty role in improving fuel economy from a humdrum 22/25 mpg city/highway on the '11 model to a that's-more-like-it 29/34 mpg city/highway on the 2013 GS 450h (up 33% combined mpg).

Refining the electric side helps too. A 200-hp motor handles the glamorous tractive and regenerative braking responsibilities, whereas a secondary 180-hp motor acts as a generator, engine starter, and engine speed controller. Lexus won't divulge the torque output of each motor, claiming the hybrid-averse individuals of the world just combine engine and motor torque into one erroneous figure, and that's not how these specs add up. (The same can be said for hp as well, notice the GS 450h's combined system hp rating is 338 and not 486 hp.) A 1.9-kilowatt-hour nickel-metal-hydride battery stores and doles out electrons, and the pack design has been reshaped enough to permit a relatively roomy 13.2-cubic-foot trunk. The electric system's cooling performance was also beefed up. And we can't disregard the continuously variable transmission, accountable for keeping the 2013 GS hybrid moving under electric, gas, or blended electric/gas power.

The Lexus Hybrid Drive system is mechanically complex (the related planetary gear set diagram we saw demanded sharp eyes), but the tradeoff for seamless operation pays dividends. The CVT, uninspiring in the twisties even with paddle shifters, works just fine during sedate driving. The hybrid system appears to be very protective of the NiMH battery, constantly charging it to maintain a high state of charge (per the car's readout). You can be traveling on the freeway with the gas engine shouldering most of the motive load, with the battery showing more than three-quarters full on the digital display's energy monitor, and the system will still divert some engine power to top off the battery. In addition to the Eco, Normal, Sport, and Sport+ settings on the Drive Mode ****, separate Snow and EV buttons (selectable in any of the four principal modes) add a greater range of efficacy. If driven leisurely in EV mode, the driver can coast up to 40 mph on the electric motor and battery alone. Throttle action is dulled significantly in Snow to help in icy conditions.

As a luxury car, the GS 450h should deliver flawless acceleration. And it does, zipping from 0-60 mph in 6.0 seconds and gliding through the quarter mile in 14.4 seconds at 101.8 mph with beguiling composure. But to hit these marks, the 6-cylinder latches to 6000 rpm where peak horsepower is developed, and the car wails into the distance with an apathetic, monotone note that reminds enthusiasts why CVTs aren't for them. The numbers don't fully stack up against the last GS 460 we tested - 5.6 seconds to 60 mph, 14.0 seconds at 102 mph - but it's a solid baseline for future hybrids.

Despite weighing 118 pounds more than said GS 460, the GS 450h shows its cards in feats of dexterity. With the Drive Mode selector in Sport+, which dials in more shock damping (Lexus calls it Adaptive Variable Suspension), tightens the steering, and sharpens throttle response, the figure eight was lapped in 26.3 seconds at 0.70 average g. The aforementioned GS 460 managed the same course in 27.0 seconds at 0.65 average g. At 4132 pounds with the weight split 51/49 front/rear, the GS 450h is a heavy car, and it shows through the steering and when transitioning side to side. Nevertheless, it's well-mannered with less roll than anticipated when reacting to driver demands, and even allows brief tail-out strokes (with stability control on!) if provoked. Heavy, yes; cumbersome, not at all.

The rejuvenated, quite un-Lexus-like roadholding has plentiful vehicular enhancements to thank: wider tracks (plus 1.6 and 2.0 inches, respectively, front and rear), a 14$ stiffer body, all-new double A-arm front and multi-link rear suspension that doesn't skimp on aluminum, and traction-management electronics with respectable thresholds. My scale tells me the 18-inch wheels and 235/45-18 Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050 summer tires weigh 52 pounds apiece, and gripping the asphalt never feels like it's a burden.

Critically for brand loyalists, there's no degradation in ride quality. The utter road isolation we've become familiar with in the Lexus family is gone, but what's left is an appeasing setup that easily soaks up the road. Road and wind noise are minimal, and the ride isn't so firm in Sport+ that you couldn't drive it daily in that mode. The Luxury Package's masterfully crafted, 18-way power front seats have not 1, but 2 switches for 4-way lower lumbar support, and it's obvious a high level of importance was placed on improving occupant comfort. For the more enthusiastic drivers, you can adjust the side bolsters for greater torso containment. About that backseat: I'm typically the guy who gets the 5th-passenger middle seat, but even I'd hesitate getting into the GS 450's last-resort position.

Centered in the dash is another piece of technology we all knew was inevitably coming to the automobile: a very big multimedia screen for drivers to play with that will dazzle tech geeks. Required with the optional navigation system, the 12.3-inch rectangular display is recessed within the dashboard and benefits from a well-structured and user-friendly graphic interface with an ingenious split-screen layout. The bad: If your family is patched in via a Bluetooth-enabled phone call and tells you to hurry to the hospital post-haste, you'll need to come to a complete stop before you're allowed to put the address into the nav system. There's also no physical "back" button near the non-self-centering mouse dedicated to accessing the GUI, which would make scrolling through the menus a little easier.

The cars of today (and tomorrow) are expected to be even more uncompromising than their forbears. Understandably, sophisticated and multifaceted vehicles like this Lexus are scrutinized fairly severely, given their numerous declared talents. The GS 450h probably won't have much of a sales impact when it goes on sale in May as it's a niche car for now, but it proves that good hybrid-luxury-sporty cars are a reality. It's also established a beachhead for a future that guarantees more exotic vehicular combinations, whether they're initially appreciated or not.

2013 Lexus GS 450h
POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT Front engine, RWD
ENGINE TYPE Atkinson cycle 60-deg V-6, alum block/heads, plus AC electric motors
VALVETRAIN DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
DISPLACEMENT 210.9 cu in/3456 cc
COMPRESSION RATIO 13.0:1
BATTERY TYPE Nickel-metal hydride
POWER (SAE NET) 286 (gas)/200 (elec)/338 (comb) hp
TORQUE (SAE NET) 254 (gas)
REDLINE 6000 rpm
WEIGHT TO POWER 12.2 lb/hp
TRANSMISSION Cont. variable auto
AXLE/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO 3.27:1/N/A
SUSPENSION, FRONT; REAR Control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multi-link, coil springs, anti-roll bar
STEERING RATIO 13.2:1
TURNS LOCK-TO-LOCK 2.8
BRAKES, F;R 13.1-in vented disc; 12.2-in vented disc, ABS
WHEELS 8.0 x 18-in, cast aluminum
TIRES 235/45R18 94Y Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050
DIMENSIONS
WHEELBASE 112.2 in
TRACK, F/R 62.0/62.6 in
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 190.7 x 72.4 x 57.3 in
TURNING CIRCLE 34.8 ft
CURB WEIGHT 4132 lb
WEIGHT DIST., F/R 51/49 %
SEATING CAPACITY 5
HEADROOM, F/R 38.0/37.8 in
LEGROOM 42.3/36.3 in
SHOULDER ROOM, F/R 57.3/55.7 in
CARGO VOLUME 13.2 cu ft
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0-30 2.4 sec
0-40 3.5
0-50 4.7
0-60 6.0
0-70 7.8
0-80 9.6
0-90 11.6
0-100 14.0
PASSING, 45-65 MPH 2.8
QUARTER MILE 14.4 sec @ 101.8 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 116 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.89 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 26.3 sec @ 0.70 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 1050 rpm
CONSUMER INFO
BASE PRICE $59,825
PRICE AS TESTED $70,000 (est)
STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL Yes/Yes
AIRBAGS Dual front, f/r side, f/r curtain, front knee
BASIC WARRANTY 4 yrs/50,000 miles
POWERTRAIN WARRANTY 6 yrs/70,000 miles
ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE 4 yrs/Unlimited miles
FUEL CAPACITY 17.4 gal
EPA CITY/HWY ECON 29/34 mpg
ENERGY CONSUMPTION, CITY/HWY 116/99 kW-hrs/100 miles
CO2 EMISSIONS 0.62 lb/mile
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded premium

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1rdhe7jc4

LexFather

The article where the GS wins 1st

FSport21

I'm not sure if many of you have seen this already, and I'm surprised no one has posted about it. But, the 2013 Lexus GS F Sport took first place against the Infiniti M35S, BMW 535i and Audi A6 3.0T in a luxury and performance comparison. I'm incredibly proud to be driving a 2013 Lexus GS F Sport!

This is what the editors had to say about the new GS,

Remember that E60 535i I mentioned, the one we adored and awarded first place in a February 2010 comparison test? Well, this new Lexus GS 350 F Sport reminds us of that car. A lot. Nimble, balanced, precise, and quick, the GS is a (retired) BMW cloaked in Lexus steel. At 3834 pounds, the GS is the lightest of the four and it feels it -- turn-in is sharp and accurate, and weight transfer, whether lateral or longitudinal, is neutral and composed. The Lexus proved the most entertaining, rewarding, and confidence-inspiring up, down, and along our demanding Malibu road loop. Ultimate driving machine? Oh, yeah.

Lieberman: "Great steering. Balanced, communicative, properly weighted. Just a joy to drive. Neutral without being leaden. Very Mazda-like, in fact. And I say all this having driven the car in Sport instead of Sport Plus." Evans: "This is a Lexus? Really impressed with the handling and confidence in the car. Holds the road much better than expected. Can really fling it at the corners." Martinez: "The Sport Plus algorithm allows for a proper testing of its grip thresholds, and on the loop's tight technical zigzags, it was just right. Only once did any traction control light flash, and, unlike the Infiniti, shifts were clean, fast, and when you wanted them. Also unlike the Infiniti: The Lexus felt way smaller than it was. Like, really smaller."

In driving feel, the Lexus does exactly what you want it to do -- it shrinks around you. Yet, when it comes to pampering, it opens up, inviting you into the richest, most aesthetically pleasing cabin in its class. Lieberman: "Gorgeous interior. Love the metalwork, especially the volume and tune *****. Feels like they're off my old Marantz Quadradial. Extremely solid and finely made." Martinez: "From the classy analog clock to the soft leather lining the seats, center console, and doors to the near-perfect sport steering wheel and massive and clear multimedia display, this Lexus oozes modern sophistication." Evans: "This is my favorite Lexus interior ever. So refined and stylish. Not boring and not overdone."

Here are some numbers to consider: 0-60 in 5.4 seconds; the quarter mile in 14.0 at 101.0 mph; lateral acceleration of 0.94 g; figure eight of 25.4 seconds at 0.71 g; EPA fuel economy of 19/28; and observed mpg of 18.9. Not first, not last; just right in the sweet spot. Only 60-0 braking, at 110 feet, was behind the curve, but only by 4 feet versus the Audi and BMW. Then there's price. At $58,800 as tested, the GS F Sport, again, sits comfortably in the sweet spot.
OK, now for the whale in the room: the prehistoric fish face. "Predator," "Vader," and "abstract art piece" were some of the other terms thrown around. But as Lieberman summed up: "Please don't let the looks detract you from buying the Lexus GS, because it's without doubt the best car of these four."
So go ahead and trade in that old IS. This GS is a midlife crisis cure-all.


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1rkqgNR6l

Got PSI

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...otortrend.html

ydooby

I'm surprised you didn't look at the post right before you. But yeah, this is actually pretty much in line with the reviews from R&T and C&D, in which the GS is consistently the most fun-to-drive of them all.

To quote:

Road and Track:
"On a purely emotional front, it’s the F Sport that gets our attention, as it’s the car both Kim and I are most excited to drive at the end of the day."

Car and Driver:
"Though the Audi aced the objective testing, the GS got our nod in subjective handling. More significant, check the fun-to-drive score."

gyung

iTrader: (1)

I've read through some of the comments on the review sites and people keep trying to bash the Lexus. I take this as a good sign - they are scared of a real competitor