4th Generation GS Reviews Thread
04-20-12, 12:04 PM
#256
Pole Position
Here are 2 Australian car website reviews that compares the handling of the Luxury vs the F-sport(with DRS) :
http://www.caradvice.com.au/166510/l...w-gs250-gs350/
http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...h-review-29679
BTW, they both loved the GS and think the GS will be a great threat to the Germans.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/166510/l...w-gs250-gs350/
Around the bends the GS feels just like a 5 Series. Stable, composed and determined. The main difference here is the rear steering system. The difference that a mere two degrees of turning angle for the rear wheels can make, is astounding. Lexus gave us the opportunity to drive the previous generation GS, a new GS with standard suspension, a new GS with variable suspension and the crème of the crop, a new GS with the lot, including rear steering, through an autocross course.
The result? Unbelievably better cornering feel with rear steering ticked. It initially feels as though the rear end is about to come loose to enter an oversteer situation, but it’s simply turning in. It feels like a totally different car, able to enter and exit corners at a much higher speed.
The result? Unbelievably better cornering feel with rear steering ticked. It initially feels as though the rear end is about to come loose to enter an oversteer situation, but it’s simply turning in. It feels like a totally different car, able to enter and exit corners at a much higher speed.
For the autocross we were able to pit the previous generation GS 300 against the GS 350 Luxury with steel suspension, GS 350 Sport Luxury with electronically variable suspension and a GS 350 F Sport with the whole box and dice, including dynamic rear steering. The course mapped out was a straight slalom followed by a short straight, wide hairpin and two swerve-and-avoid exercises.
It's plainly not the sort of motor sport event to which most Lexus GS owners will subject their cars, but it was instructive. The old GS 300 was imprecise and understeered at lower speeds in the slalom. Changing to the steel-sprung GS 350 produced an immediate gain, with the newer car skating around in a much more lively and precise way. It even seemed to offer better traction accelerating out of a turn. The migration to the variable damper setup produced better results again and the rear-steer-equipped car was dynamite.
DRS (Dynamic Rear-wheel Steering) helped turn the car in sooner and minimised understeer. Since the speed through the slalom was below 80km/h the car's rear wheels were counter-steering, turning the car through a tighter radius. If it provoked oversteer at any point, the VDIM 5 stability control stepped in and corrected the car's line. In all, the top-spec chassis of the GS 350 F Sport made the steel-sprung GS 350 look out of its depth in the same way that car showed up the old GS 300. In fairness to the basic GS 350, it didn't have the 19-inch alloys, the two-piece rotor brake upgrade, the Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) — or of course the DRS.
It's plainly not the sort of motor sport event to which most Lexus GS owners will subject their cars, but it was instructive. The old GS 300 was imprecise and understeered at lower speeds in the slalom. Changing to the steel-sprung GS 350 produced an immediate gain, with the newer car skating around in a much more lively and precise way. It even seemed to offer better traction accelerating out of a turn. The migration to the variable damper setup produced better results again and the rear-steer-equipped car was dynamite.
DRS (Dynamic Rear-wheel Steering) helped turn the car in sooner and minimised understeer. Since the speed through the slalom was below 80km/h the car's rear wheels were counter-steering, turning the car through a tighter radius. If it provoked oversteer at any point, the VDIM 5 stability control stepped in and corrected the car's line. In all, the top-spec chassis of the GS 350 F Sport made the steel-sprung GS 350 look out of its depth in the same way that car showed up the old GS 300. In fairness to the basic GS 350, it didn't have the 19-inch alloys, the two-piece rotor brake upgrade, the Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS) — or of course the DRS.
04-20-12, 07:39 PM
#257
Pole Position
Very interesting mini-review :
http://speedydaddy.com/2013-lexus-gs...from-the-iihs/
http://speedydaddy.com/2013-lexus-gs...from-the-iihs/
Our own Michael Harley has spent plenty of time behind the wheel of the new 2013 Lexus GS 350 F Sport, and the self-confessed BMW fan and current Audi owner says that in the mid-luxury sport sedan segment, the Lexus is the car to get for rousing runs on favorite back roads. Not the 5 Series. Not the A6. The Lexus.
Before you dismiss such statements as the ravings of a lunatic, know that Harley has driven all the really cool stuff for Autoblog. He’s traveled the world and sampled some of the greatest racetracks on the planet while driving some of the best cars ever made. The man races a Porsche Boxster on weekends, and wins. When he told me the Lexus GS 350 F Sport was his pick as the driver’s car in the class, I had no choice but to believe him
04-23-12, 04:57 AM
#258
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
MotorTrend: M35h vs 450h vs Panamera Hybrid
Every time I observe somebody calculating a hybrid's "payback miles" -- that is, its price premium (if you can figure that out) amortized by its mileage improvement -- I cringe. For those who need simple answers, I guess it's hard to resist, but the trade-offs embodied by these cars are more complex than simpleminded division. Let me flip the conversation: How many people figure out the payback cost effec-tiveness of a concert-hall-quality sound system? A bigger engine? Carbon-ceramic brakes? Nobody. But for some reason, the word "hybrid" brings the calculators out.
If the value proposition of mainstream hybrids is prickly business, grappling with expensive, high-performance, ueber-luxury ones is a cactus hug. And the 3 most recent examples of this predicament are perfect examples: the new Infiniti M35h, Lexus GS 450h, and Porsche Panamera Hybrid we've gathered here.
To untie the complicated knots these vehicles represent, we decided to tug at the strings from 3 separate directions. We looked at how they rate as luxury cars, how they compare as performance cars, and, of course, whether they're any good at being hybrids in the first place. This idea of subdividing the problem into a trio of attributes inspired the photos on these pages, which are meant to suggest a triathlon.
Hey, play along.
Now, I can already hear the eruption of angry keyboard clatter when you note that one of our three triathletes showed up wearing gold-embroidered running shoes. While the base prices of the M35h and GS 450h are $54,595 and $64,650, respectively, the Panamera Hybrid thudded upon our doorstep at 30 to 40 grand more -- $95,975. To suppress the outrage of any of you 2 Percenters confronted with a 1 Percent car, let's agree now that, if the Infiniti and Lexus fit your wallet, but a 95-grand Porsche just gets you mad, whenever you see the word "Porsche," just skip right over the offending paragraphs. Pretend they aren't there. Deal? Deal.
So let's start with the "luxury" part. Although all 3 can readily produce long lists of the requisite lap-of-luxury features -- a funny one being the Infiniti's lane-departure chime, which repeatedly sounded around the Cypress College track during our photo shoot (it was detecting the running lanes!) -- luxury is really something you know when you see it. And feel it. Although each of these cars appears to date from a different automotive era, you can see and feel luxury in all 3.
The M35h's interior has a delightful touch of lurid boudoir going on. Its undulating dash and door sculpting is shaped like a dozing anaconda cast in high-gloss wood and puffed leather upholstery. This would be the car in which to take your future mother-in-law to lunch and watch in the rearview mirror as she caresses its backseat surfaces. "My, what a fancy carrr..." There's loads of rear legroom for crossing her legs, and big door openings for getting in and (more important) out. Plenty of shoulder room for her twin giant poodles, too, and surprisingly little trunk space for her luggage, despite this hybrid M's smaller, higher energy-density lithium ion battery pack.
The GS seems contemporary almost to a fault -- a perfect example of Toyota's skill at predicting what will be fashionable for precisely the next hour and 15 minutes. In our GS hybrid's case, the tread-lightly bamboo inlays on the dash and steering wheel made everybody smile. "Love the reclaimed bowling-lane wood on the dash and the doors," quipped Mike Febbo, though his acute eye also noted that the GS' engineers must have business degrees, too, as the car's best quality materials are noticeably confined to your fingertip touch points. Me? I'm convinced its 17-inch, high-resolution, multifunction, and dividable screen (you can choose to have navigation on the left, audio on the right) is a preview of big-screen things to come in dashboards. Its haptic hand controller may be an acquired taste, but it, and its companion easy-read screen graphics, are at least soldiers on your side in the battle to understand the car's dizzying functions.
I'm not so convinced about the Panamera's alliance. Every time I see one of these 4-door Porsches, it reminds me of a rolling submarine, and trying to navigate its controls must be akin to what U.S. sailors felt when they first climbed into captured U-boats. There were moments when I just sat back and muttered, "I have absolutely no idea what's going on here." On the other hand, the interior's design, materials, and craftsmanship are so magnificent that Mr. Febbo and Benson Kong and I emphatically agreed that it's of a quality simply "worth any amount of money." Ninety-five thousand dollars? If you can, sign the check. I don't think I've ever seen a more beautiful interior design. And, its missing center rear seat aside, it's remarkably functional. Rear room isn't bad at all, and the seats fold down to make way for objects that can't come close to fitting in the back of the Infiniti or Lexus.
To wrap my tender mind around how each of the hybrids works, I set about to graphically render their basic drivetrain components. (See their professionally redrawn versions at left/right.) Understand that these are simplified to an extent akin to that famous New York subway map that conveys only what's absolutely relevant. (The actual parts look nothing like this.) In the case of the Infiniti and Porsche, perhaps 90 percent of their drivetrain components are just where a car mechanic would expect them. The exceptions are dry clutches between their engines and transmissions to decouple their V-6s while stopped, when accelerating moderately (now, via their electric motors), and when lifting off the throttle (when the engines are freewheeling -- or "sailing," as those famous German yachtsman like to say). Behind their transmissions, the Infiniti adds another clutch, this one wet (making it a 1M2Cl or one-motor, two-clutch design), while the Porsche opts for a torque converter between its motor and 8-speed transmission. These designs don't sound earthshaking, but they open all sorts of clever opportunities. For instance, when the batteries need charging, the engines can raise their output (lessening throttle losses) and send the excess to the motor (acting as a generator) without the car's motion being changed at all. While stopping, the Lexus strives to send as much braking force as possible to the rear wheels, which, in this layout, are its regen wheels.
However, in the case of the Infiniti, the envisioned cleverness often seemed beyond the software's sophistication. Its interplay between engine and motor were frequently drivetrain jolts, such as when the motor while propelling the car is asked to simultaneously start the engine. That's a tricky software task, and this whole drivetrain reinforces my belief that the future of cars really belongs to their software authors.
While Infiniti and Porsche have performed targeted engineering interventions to net many of a hybrid's practical benefits with as little pain as possible, Lexus has spent the yen and brain-wattage in creating a fascinatingly original and integrated solution. The GS' seamless driving behavior reflects it, and its graphical representation (a still complicated one, I'll confess) at least lets you see there's something very unusual here. Basically, it's an upsized rear-drive Prius-style arrangement (its electric motor acts as a CVT-ratio controller, starter, generator, and even motor when need be) entirely rearranged into a longitudinal configuration. But that's not the biggest difference. Where, schematically, the Prius locates its second, single-ratio primary drive motor, the GS 450h integrates an additional planetary gearset allowing for two speeds, making the GS more efficient and responsive at higher speeds. While the M35h and Panamera Hybrid periodically drive with the shuttering gait of gas/electric Frankensteins composed of imperfectly integrated parts, the GS is -- right down at a genetic level -- a new and better species.
Our test drive, from Orange County south to the roads around Mount Palomar and back, underlined all this. On the freeway drives, the Lexus led the mileage pack at 33.5 mpg, followed by the Infiniti (31.5) and Porsche (30.3). But in the stop-and-go miles approaching the mountain, the GS not only magnified its advantage (35.0 versus 30.2 and 29.5, respectively), but began to flaunt its almost Rolls-Royce-ian drivetrain velvety-ness. That was in stark relief (double meaning intended) to the M 35h's jolty acceleration and puzzling episodes of seeming lost in its gear changes.
But it was while looping the Palomar grade that the Porsche did something magical: It transformed from being a Stuttgart-built four-seat sedan with a hybridized V-6 engine and a battery into a 380-hp multi-passenger 911 with 0.99 g of lateral grip and 5.2 seconds standing between it and 60 mph. Wow. Without ever touching its brakes, it could stay almost comically ahead of the tire-growling, brake-keening, body-rolling Japanese pair. The contrast was pure ridiculousness. Once again, that 95 grand reappeared as a defensible investment rather than a crazy high price.
But at least as unexpected was the GS' handling while trailing in the Porsche's wake. Though much slower, its tail actually drifted, its throttle modulations adeptly fine-tuned its understeer, and its turn-in was sweet. When I figure-eight-tested the car, I actually yelled out, "I can't believe this is a hybrid!" as it oversteered out of the corners (and with more delicacy than the Panamera, which tended to abruptly snap back into line -- ouch, the neck). A head nod to its Dynamic Rear Steering (active rear wheel steering), which countersteers up to 1.5 degrees below 50 mph for agility and parallel steers above that for enhanced stability. It's not nearly as fast as the Porsche, of course, but -- hold on here -- is it actually out-scoring the Porsche in our three triathlon qualities? The following weekend would give me a chance to live with this marvel in the real world.
After I drove the Panamera up to L.A. to see the documentary "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" (neat documentary if you're into raw fish), my wife offered to drive back, and, being bone tired, I settled into the passenger seat. No farther than the first right turn, I shouted, "Curb!" -- because, from my side-window vantage, we were on a collision trajectory to scrape a wheel worth more than my first car. "You drive, then," she said and immediately pulled over. It took exactly one turn for the Panamera's lengthy wheelbase and porthole-view outward vision to cause an argument. A car shouldn't cause arguments this quickly, and there are many more examples like this that I can cite of the Porsche's unease at coexisting with humans. The Panamera is like having a 200-pound panther as a pet. It's happy racing through the neighborhood jungle, but around the house it tends to knock the coffee table over, wine glasses flying everywhere.
After our comparison drive, editor at large Angus MacKenzie asked me which of these cars I'd really prefer to drive. I responded, "Around a racetrack" -- suspecting that's what he was getting at -- "no question, the Porsche. But to the racetrack, the Lexus."
And most of our lives are spent, metaphorically speaking, driving to the racetrack.
3rd Place: Infiniti M35h
A luxurious and fast-accelerating sedan powered by a clever, minimalist drivetrain. However, it's in desperate need of better software to tame its rough operation.
2nd Place: Porsche Panamera S Hybrid
Who would have believed that Porsche could create a 4-door, four-seat, front-engined hybrid that handles like a big 911? Now, we do.
1st Place: Lexus GS 450h
The best fuel economy here, and substantially superior in terms of driveability. And it handles better than you'd expect too.
PHP Code:
2012 Infiniti M35h 2013 Lexus GS 450h 2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid
POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT Front engine, RWD Front engine, RWD Front engine, RWD
ENGINE TYPE 60-deg V-6, alum block/heads, plus AC electric motor Atkinson cycle 60-deg V-6, alum block/heads, plus AC electric motors Supercharged 90-deg V-6, alum block/heads, plus AC electric motor
VALVETRAIN DOHC, 4 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
DISPLACEMENT 213.5 cu in/3498 cc 210.9 cu in/3456 cc 182.9 cu in/2997 cc
COMPRESSION RATIO 10.6:1 13.0:1 10.5:1
BATTERY TYPE Lithium-ion Nickel-metal hydride Nickel-metal hydride
POWER (SAE NET) 302 (gas)/67 (elec)/360 (comb) hp 286 (gas)/200 (elec)/338 (comb) hp 333 (gas)/47 (elec)/380 (comb) hp
TORQUE (SAE NET) 258 (gas)/199 (elec) lb-ft 254 (gas) 325 (gas)/221 (elec)/428 (comb) lb-ft
REDLINE 7000 rpm 6000 rpm 6700 rpm
WEIGHT TO POWER 11.6 lb/hp 12.2 lb/hp 11.9 lb/hp
TRANSMISSION 7-speed automatic Cont. variable auto 8-speed automatic
AXLE/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO 2.61:1/2.03:1 3.27:1/NA 2.92:1/2.01:1
SUSPENSION, FRONT; REAR Control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multi-link, coil springs, anti-roll bar Control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multi-link, coil springs, anti-roll bar Control arms, air springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multi-link, air springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar
STEERING RATIO 16.9:1 13.2:1 13.8-17.1:1
TURNS LOCK-TO-LOCK 3.1 2.8 2.5
BRAKES, F;R 12.6-in vented disc; 12.1-in vented disc, ABS 13.1-in vented disc; 12.2-in vented disc, ABS 14.2-in vented, slotted disc; 13.0-in vented, slotted disc, ABS
WHEELS 8.0 x 18-in, cast aluminum 8.0 x 18-in, cast aluminum 9.5 x 20-in; 11.0 x 20-in, cast aluminum
TIRES 245/50R18 99V Michelin Primacy MXM4 235/45R18 94Y Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050 255/40R20 101Y; 295/35R20 105Y Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
DIMENSIONS
WHEELBASE 114.2 in 112.2 in 114.9 in
TRACK, F/R 62.0/61.8 in 62.0/62.6 in 65.3/65.4 in
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 194.7 x 72.6 x 59.1 in 190.7 x 72.4 x 57.3 in 195.7 x 83.2 x 55.8 in
TURNING CIRCLE 36.7 ft 34.8 ft 39.0 ft
CURB WEIGHT 4159 lb 4132 lb 4539 lb
WEIGHT DIST., F/R 51/49 % 51/49 % 50/50 %
SEATING CAPACITY 5 5 4
HEADROOM, F/R 39.1/37.7 in 38.0/37.8 in 38.0/38.2 in
LEGROOM, F/R 44.4/36.2 in 42.3/36.3 in 41.9/33.3 in
SHOULDER ROOM, F/R 58.4/56.7 in 57.3/55.7 in 51.9/51.7 in
CARGO VOLUME 11.3 cu ft 13.2 cu ft 11.8 cu ft
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0-30 2.0 sec 2.4 sec 1.8 sec
0-40 2.8 3.5 2.9
0-50 3.9 4.7 4.0
0-60 5.1 6.0 5.2
0-70 6.7 7.8 6.8
0-80 8.6 9.6 8.6
0-90 10.9 11.6 10.5
0-100 13.6 14.0 13.3
PASSING, 45-65 MPH 2.4 2.8 2.6
QUARTER MILE 13.8 sec @ 100.7 mph 14.4 sec @ 101.8 mph 13.8 sec @ 101.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 118 ft 116 ft 104 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.85 g (avg) 0.89 g (avg) 0.99 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 26.3 sec @ 0.71 g (avg) 26.3 sec @ 0.70 g (avg) 24.7 sec @ 0.78 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 1500 rpm 1050 rpm 1550 rpm
CONSUMER INFO
BASE PRICE $54,595 $61,000 (est) $95,975
PRICE AS TESTED $65,395 $71,000 (est) $0
STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL Yes/Yes Yes/Yes Yes/Yes
AIRBAGS Dual front, front side, f/r curtain Dual front, f/r side, f/r curtain, front knee Dual front, f/r side, f/r curtain, front knee
BASIC WARRANTY 4 yrs/60,000 miles 4 yrs/50,000 miles 4 yrs/50,000 miles
POWERTRAIN WARRANTY 6 yrs/70,000 miles 6 yrs/70,000 miles 4 yrs/50,000 miles
ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE 4 yrs/Unlimited miles 4 yrs/Unlimited miles 4 yrs/50,000 miles
FUEL CAPACITY 17.8 gal 17.4 gal 21.0 gal
EPA CITY/HWY ECON 27/32 mpg 29/34 mpg 22/30 mpg
ENERGY CONSUMPTION, CITY/HWY 125/105 kW-hrs/100 miles 116/99 kW-hrs/100 miles 153/112 kW-hrs/100 miles
CO2 EMISSIONS 0.67 lb/mile 0.62 lb/mile 0.78 lb/mile
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded premium Unleaded premium Unleaded premium
Lexus GS 450H Infiniti M35h Porsche Panamera Hybrid Front End In Motion
Lexus GS 450H Infiniti M35h Porsche Panamera Hybrid Side
Lexus GS 450H Infiniti M35h Porsche Panamera Hybrid Rear Three Quarters In Motion
Lexus GS 450H Infiniti M35h Porsche Panamera Hybrid Rear Front Three Quarter
Lexus GS 450H Infiniti M35h Porsche Panamera Hybrid Rear Three Quarters In Motion 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Side
2013 Lexus GS 450H Rear Three Quarters
2013 Lexus GS 450H Rear Three Quarter Low
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front Three Quarters In Motion
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front Three Quarters 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front Three Quarter Low
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front End
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front End 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Rear Badge
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front Grille
2013 Lexus GS 450H Front Headlamp
2013 Lexus GS 450H Badge
2013 Lexus GS 450H Badge 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Steering Wheel
2013 Lexus GS 450H Rear Center Console
2013 Lexus GS 450H Rear Air Vents
2013 Lexus GS 450H Interior Detail
2013 Lexus GS 450H Engine Cover
2013 Lexus GS 450H ECO Sport Mode
2013 Lexus GS 450H ECO Sport Mode 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Door Panel Detail
2013 Lexus GS 450H Door Sill
2013 Lexus GS 450H Center Console
2013 Lexus GS 450H Center Console 2
2013 Lexus GS 450H Cockpit
2012 Lexus GS 450H Interior Seats
2013 Lexus GS 450H Audio Climate Controls
2013 Lexus GS 450H Analog Clock
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front Three Quarters 2
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front End
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front End 3
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Rear Three Quarters 3
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Rear Three Quarter 2
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front Three Quarters In Motion
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Side
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front Three Quarter
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Rear Three Quarters 4
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Key Fob
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Side In Motion
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Wheels
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Side Badge
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Front Three Quarter In Motion
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Badge 2
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Taillight
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Volume Control
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Instrument Gauges
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Center Console
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Door Sill
2012 Infiniti M35h Front End 2
2012 Infiniti M35h Front End
2012 Infiniti M35h Front Three Quarter In Motion
2012 Infiniti M35h Front Three Quarter Low
2012 Infiniti M35h Rear Three Quarter Low
2012 Infiniti M35h Center Stack
2012 Infiniti M35h Rear Three Quarter
2012 Infiniti M35h Wheels
2012 Infiniti M35h ECO Mode
2012 Infiniti M35h Center Console
2012 Infiniti M35h Engine
2012 Infiniti M35h Bose Speaker
2012 Infiniti M35h Cockpit
2012 Infiniti M35h Door Sill
2012 Infiniti M35h Gear Shift ****
2012 Infiniti M35h Instrument Gauges
2012 Infiniti M35h Key Fob
2012 Infiniti M35h Steering Wheel
2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid Driver Seat
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MSRP
Base Engine
Torque
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2013 Porsche
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$75,850
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295 @ 3750 RPM
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Last edited by GS69; 04-23-12 at 05:09 AM.
04-23-12, 06:43 AM
#259
Speaks French in Russian
Lexus GSh slowest to 60mph but posted the fastest 1/4 mile time. Highway passing power must be nice. Engine turns at 1050rpm at 60mph. lol. Its practically idling. 
Of course the best observed MPG. And I thought hybrid wasnt available with the Rear steer option?
Of course the best observed MPG. And I thought hybrid wasnt available with the Rear steer option?
04-23-12, 01:18 PM
#262
Lexus Champion
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Though much slower, its tail actually drifted, its throttle modulations adeptly fine-tuned its understeer, and its turn-in was sweet. When I figure-eight-tested the car, I actually yelled out, "I can't believe this is a hybrid!" as it oversteered out of the corners (and with more delicacy than the Panamera, which tended to abruptly snap back into line -- ouch, the neck). A head nod to its Dynamic Rear Steering (active rear wheel steering), which countersteers up to 1.5 degrees below 50 mph for agility and parallel steers above that for enhanced stability. It's not nearly as fast as the Porsche, of course, but -- hold on here -- is it actually out-scoring the Porsche in our three triathlon qualities? The following weekend would give me a chance to live with this marvel in the real world.
This is not the GS450h F-Sport (which we don't get in the US) and therefore does not have the Dynamic Rear Steering (nor the sports-tuned steering/suspension settings), which actually makes it all the more impressive that the regular GS450h manages handle as well as the author says it does. 
Last edited by ydooby; 04-23-12 at 03:26 PM.
04-24-12, 08:47 AM
#264
Nanoe
Both of the reviews from Australia mention a negative ion device in the A/C developed by Panasonic. For example ...
"20-way adjustable front seats are an absolute treat, as is the air-conditioning system which sends out negatively charged microscopic nanoe ions that have about 1,000 times greater water content than regular air ions, to help prevent dry skin and hair (something the missus will easily get sold on)."
I also read about this in early reviews but have not heard or read about it since. Does anyone know if this system exists in the US models, and if so, is it just an available option for the Lux model?
"20-way adjustable front seats are an absolute treat, as is the air-conditioning system which sends out negatively charged microscopic nanoe ions that have about 1,000 times greater water content than regular air ions, to help prevent dry skin and hair (something the missus will easily get sold on)."
I also read about this in early reviews but have not heard or read about it since. Does anyone know if this system exists in the US models, and if so, is it just an available option for the Lux model?
04-25-12, 01:44 AM
#265
Lexus Champion
Both of the reviews from Australia mention a negative ion device in the A/C developed by Panasonic. For example ...
"20-way adjustable front seats are an absolute treat, as is the air-conditioning system which sends out negatively charged microscopic nanoe ions that have about 1,000 times greater water content than regular air ions, to help prevent dry skin and hair (something the missus will easily get sold on)."
I also read about this in early reviews but have not heard or read about it since. Does anyone know if this system exists in the US models, and if so, is it just an available option for the Lux model?
"20-way adjustable front seats are an absolute treat, as is the air-conditioning system which sends out negatively charged microscopic nanoe ions that have about 1,000 times greater water content than regular air ions, to help prevent dry skin and hair (something the missus will easily get sold on)."
I also read about this in early reviews but have not heard or read about it since. Does anyone know if this system exists in the US models, and if so, is it just an available option for the Lux model?
04-25-12, 03:25 AM
#266
I was reading a comparo yesterday of the GS350 F Sport vs 535i vs A6 vs M37. It's in one of the mags I get in the mail. Forgot which one, it's in the bathroom.
Anyway, the GS won. Remember the days when Bimmers won every comparo. The GS seems to be winning them all.
In the end, the writer admits the cars' looks are going to turn some people off. The drivers' comments included but not limited to Darth Vader, Predator, etc.
Not to beat that same dead horse but we all know that buying a car is very much an emotional decision. Not many want to drive a car they either don't like its looks or believe that most others don't like its looks.
I'm still happy a Lexus is doing so well in magazine testing. I just wish it looked better. Think of it...Lexus could be raking in the bucks like crazy right now. I'm all for a more aggressive looking car.....but come on....make it look better!
Last edited by Ice350; 04-25-12 at 11:49 AM.
04-25-12, 07:41 AM
#267
Lexus Champion
Here's a good casual review:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...japanese-spec/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...japanese-spec/
Review From The Backseat: 2013 Lexus GS 350 F Sport (Japanese Spec)
By Bertel Schmitt on February 10, 2012
Someone (I can’t find it, our search function sucks) once said that “when Bertel Schmitt reviews a car, he does it from the back seat, with a driver.” Which is true.
Heads of state will agree, being driven is the most dignified mode of transportation. Add to that the fact that the Lexus GS 350 has been driven and reviewed multiple times by Jack Baruth AND Alex Dykes, and you will understand why I chose to review the Lexus GS 350 from a position of power: From the back seat. Which, after all, is the most appropriate perspective to view a luxury vehicle from.
My normal driver Matthias had to remain back in China, due to visa problems. Thankfully, Martin Koelling, East Asia correspondent of Germany’s Handelsblatt, volunteered as a stand-in. I’d say he looks the part of a Brooklyn livery driver. I climb into the back seat, and off we go.
Let’s inspect my area first. Nice leather seats, burgundy red. I would have preferred black leather in a black car, but this is the F Sport version of the GS 350. If you had to ask, in Japan, this car would set your trust-fund back 6.8 million yen ($87,500) for the rear-wheel drive version, and $90,000 for the all-wheel-drive version.
When the rear seat center armrest is down, a hatch is revealed that lets you access the trunk of the car. Comes in handy if you work for the Yakuza, and you want to demonstrate your compassion by feeding peeled grapes to the two people you had locked in the trunk.
There is plenty space for both.
There is no TV screen in the back. It would not be necessary. The 12.3 inch high res display in the dashboard, the world’s largest in a mass-production vehicle, is big enough to be read back from where I sit.
I sit in comfort. Headroom is perfect for this 6 foot frame. Legroom is ample, especially when the front seat is pushed forward. Legroom behind the driver’s seat: Not so much. It’s lonely at the top.
Meanwhile, driver Martin has found his way out of the lush park that surrounds the Grande Ocean Resort, and it is time to demonstrate our empathy for the help by inquiring how he’s doing up front. He answers:
“That mouse takes a little getting used to. I am used to a touch screen, not to a mouse. It’s not bad, it’s different. Whenever you learn something new, you need to negotiate your way through it first.”
When driver Martin talks about “the mouse,” he refers to a button in the center console. It moves a cursor on the screen, like a mouse on a computer.
The map was sent by voice: Martin talked to an operator, said he wanted to go from Miyazaki to Kagoshima, but please via the scenic route, and dozo, the map was sent to our screen. Very convenient.
Asked about the ride quality, driver Martin says:
“The ride is taut, yet gentle. Japanese motorways have many seams, because of the earthquakes, the roads have to be able to move, via interlocked steel bands. That’s why in the olden days, Japanese cars always were softer sprung than their German equivalents.”
A car for executives must be able to accelerate without breaking the back of the principal. You want him to be happy, not being smashed into the backrest by exploding g-forces. Martin thinks the Lexus is doing a fine job.
“The acceleration is fine. We are in Sport+ mode. I drove the Nissan Fuga Hybrid the other day, and it has an acceleration fitting for a jet fighter, not for a chauffeur driven car, it pulls your socks off. The Lexus accelerates with verve, but not as brutally and unrefined as the Nissan.”
Martin likes his workplace:
“This cockpit is something for people who don’t like to fuss around. Nice armrest, you can steer with your fingertips, everything is within reach of your fingertips, you barely have to raise a hand. This is my first time in this car, and all is where it should be.”
He likes the attention to detail that allows the car to be driven by touch alone. He points at two buttons in the steering wheel – Martin thinks they are for the cruise control – and says:
“Look, the up button has a raised label, the down button has the label sunk.”
If you spend as much time in a car as a professional driver, you want good seats. And, says Martin,
“the seats are super, especially compared to the old Lexus. Seats feel like made to measure. I could work here all day without getting tired – something I definitely cannot say for the old GS.”
The super–wide screen is more than just a cinemascopic view. According to Martin,
“with a regular screen, the map goes away if you operate, say, the radio. Here, a window on the side goes up, and the map stays. I like it.”
Martin doesn’t just like the screen, he likes the whole car.
“Spoken as a chauffeur, l would say this is the perfect chauffeur’s car.”
I like how Martin drives. Should forest-based media completely go away, there is always the possibility for a second career.
My legroom was fine, but I would like to have a companion sometimes who can stretch her finely shaped legs.
The next day, I inquire with Lexus chief Kiyotaka Ise (the engineer) about the possibility of a long version. He does not like the idea. It would destroy the finely tuned balance of the car, Ise says. Sure, sure, but what about China? An upscale car must have a long version for China, no? Ise answers carefully
“For China, we may have to rethink our strategy in this regard.”
Lexus paid for airfare, hotel, gas, food,even the toll.
By Bertel Schmitt on February 10, 2012
Someone (I can’t find it, our search function sucks) once said that “when Bertel Schmitt reviews a car, he does it from the back seat, with a driver.” Which is true.
Heads of state will agree, being driven is the most dignified mode of transportation. Add to that the fact that the Lexus GS 350 has been driven and reviewed multiple times by Jack Baruth AND Alex Dykes, and you will understand why I chose to review the Lexus GS 350 from a position of power: From the back seat. Which, after all, is the most appropriate perspective to view a luxury vehicle from.
My normal driver Matthias had to remain back in China, due to visa problems. Thankfully, Martin Koelling, East Asia correspondent of Germany’s Handelsblatt, volunteered as a stand-in. I’d say he looks the part of a Brooklyn livery driver. I climb into the back seat, and off we go.
Let’s inspect my area first. Nice leather seats, burgundy red. I would have preferred black leather in a black car, but this is the F Sport version of the GS 350. If you had to ask, in Japan, this car would set your trust-fund back 6.8 million yen ($87,500) for the rear-wheel drive version, and $90,000 for the all-wheel-drive version.
When the rear seat center armrest is down, a hatch is revealed that lets you access the trunk of the car. Comes in handy if you work for the Yakuza, and you want to demonstrate your compassion by feeding peeled grapes to the two people you had locked in the trunk.
There is plenty space for both.
There is no TV screen in the back. It would not be necessary. The 12.3 inch high res display in the dashboard, the world’s largest in a mass-production vehicle, is big enough to be read back from where I sit.
I sit in comfort. Headroom is perfect for this 6 foot frame. Legroom is ample, especially when the front seat is pushed forward. Legroom behind the driver’s seat: Not so much. It’s lonely at the top.
Meanwhile, driver Martin has found his way out of the lush park that surrounds the Grande Ocean Resort, and it is time to demonstrate our empathy for the help by inquiring how he’s doing up front. He answers:
“That mouse takes a little getting used to. I am used to a touch screen, not to a mouse. It’s not bad, it’s different. Whenever you learn something new, you need to negotiate your way through it first.”
When driver Martin talks about “the mouse,” he refers to a button in the center console. It moves a cursor on the screen, like a mouse on a computer.
The map was sent by voice: Martin talked to an operator, said he wanted to go from Miyazaki to Kagoshima, but please via the scenic route, and dozo, the map was sent to our screen. Very convenient.
Asked about the ride quality, driver Martin says:
“The ride is taut, yet gentle. Japanese motorways have many seams, because of the earthquakes, the roads have to be able to move, via interlocked steel bands. That’s why in the olden days, Japanese cars always were softer sprung than their German equivalents.”
A car for executives must be able to accelerate without breaking the back of the principal. You want him to be happy, not being smashed into the backrest by exploding g-forces. Martin thinks the Lexus is doing a fine job.
“The acceleration is fine. We are in Sport+ mode. I drove the Nissan Fuga Hybrid the other day, and it has an acceleration fitting for a jet fighter, not for a chauffeur driven car, it pulls your socks off. The Lexus accelerates with verve, but not as brutally and unrefined as the Nissan.”
Martin likes his workplace:
“This cockpit is something for people who don’t like to fuss around. Nice armrest, you can steer with your fingertips, everything is within reach of your fingertips, you barely have to raise a hand. This is my first time in this car, and all is where it should be.”
He likes the attention to detail that allows the car to be driven by touch alone. He points at two buttons in the steering wheel – Martin thinks they are for the cruise control – and says:
“Look, the up button has a raised label, the down button has the label sunk.”
If you spend as much time in a car as a professional driver, you want good seats. And, says Martin,
“the seats are super, especially compared to the old Lexus. Seats feel like made to measure. I could work here all day without getting tired – something I definitely cannot say for the old GS.”
The super–wide screen is more than just a cinemascopic view. According to Martin,
“with a regular screen, the map goes away if you operate, say, the radio. Here, a window on the side goes up, and the map stays. I like it.”
Martin doesn’t just like the screen, he likes the whole car.
“Spoken as a chauffeur, l would say this is the perfect chauffeur’s car.”
I like how Martin drives. Should forest-based media completely go away, there is always the possibility for a second career.
My legroom was fine, but I would like to have a companion sometimes who can stretch her finely shaped legs.
The next day, I inquire with Lexus chief Kiyotaka Ise (the engineer) about the possibility of a long version. He does not like the idea. It would destroy the finely tuned balance of the car, Ise says. Sure, sure, but what about China? An upscale car must have a long version for China, no? Ise answers carefully
“For China, we may have to rethink our strategy in this regard.”
Lexus paid for airfare, hotel, gas, food,even the toll.
04-25-12, 11:59 AM
#269
Just got back in from lunch.
Finally had an opportunity to drive next to a 4GS.
I can't help but to report that it actually looks worse on the road than I thought it would.
Much has been said about the front so I'll leave that alone.
I didn't expect to be put off by the rear this much.
The car looked boxy, plain and tall from the rear. The new Camry looks better.
I could say more but I'll leave it here. Last comment is I can't wait to see one lowered with wheels, hoping I like it so much more.
Not enough to consider buying one....because it's a Lexus and more than that, it's a GS. The 1, 2 and 3GS were all cars to aspire to. I want to see the 4GS take its place and even surpass the others.
Finally had an opportunity to drive next to a 4GS.
I can't help but to report that it actually looks worse on the road than I thought it would.
Much has been said about the front so I'll leave that alone.
I didn't expect to be put off by the rear this much.
The car looked boxy, plain and tall from the rear. The new Camry looks better.
I could say more but I'll leave it here. Last comment is I can't wait to see one lowered with wheels, hoping I like it so much more.
Not enough to consider buying one....because it's a Lexus and more than that, it's a GS. The 1, 2 and 3GS were all cars to aspire to. I want to see the 4GS take its place and even surpass the others.
05-01-12, 04:45 AM
#270
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Cnet
The good: The F Sport package on the 2013 Lexus GS 350 includes an adjustable suspension, improving handling. The navigation system uses a 12.3-inch LCD, the current largest for a production car. Lexus' Enform system integrates Yelp, Bing search, Pandora, and other apps.
The bad: Real-world fuel economy averaged under 20 mpg. The cabin tech interface controller lacked the heft that should be present in a luxury vehicle.
The bottom line: The 2013 Lexus GS 350 makes for a convincing high-tech cruiser. With the F Sport package, it has some real performance chops, although it falls short of a BMW M or Mercedes-Benz AMG.
For its 2013 model year, Lexus gave the GS 350 a fierce look and performance options that make it one of the best-handling Lexus models, and let it begin to approach the sport levels achieved by the German competition. Catching the eye first of all, however, is the tremendous 12.3-inch LCD sitting in the dashboard.The bad: Real-world fuel economy averaged under 20 mpg. The cabin tech interface controller lacked the heft that should be present in a luxury vehicle.
The bottom line: The 2013 Lexus GS 350 makes for a convincing high-tech cruiser. With the F Sport package, it has some real performance chops, although it falls short of a BMW M or Mercedes-Benz AMG.
Beyond the main menu screen, this whopping display shows its information in a perpetual split, using about 2/3s of the area for maps, destination input, audio selection, and phone calls. The other 3rd shows current audio, phone, climate control, and fuel economy.
Lexus launched its mouselike controller for in-cabin electronics a few years ago, and this system was refined for the GS 350. Where before it felt like a joystick, now it slides around more like a mouse. Previously, the pointer could move anywhere on the screen, but now it more securely snaps to the onscreen buttons, making it easier to use while driving.
Lexus also took away the Enter buttons, previously mounted on either side of the controller, replacing that function with a push down on the controller. I found the controller a little too sensitive, as it too easily jumped to a different button when I tried to press down. Looking into the settings, there was no way to reduce the sensitivity, but it was possible to raise the level of haptic response, so the controller would be less likely to skip off a selected button. The controller also felt too much like a cheap, plastic mouse; I would expect more heft for switchgear in a luxury car.
Along with the controller upgrade, Lexus improved its voice command. Pressing the voice command gave me a lot of top-level options for navigation, phone, and audio. I could place a call by saying the name of a person in my phone's contact list, or request music from an attached iPod or USB drive by saying the artist name or album. Entering a destination still required saying the city, street name, and number individually, instead of as one string.
The GS 350's massive 12.3-inch screen can show maps in a dual display, and still have room left over for an audio display.
(Credit: Josh Miller/CNET)
Despite the large screen, Lexus' navigation remains unchanged from that of prior model years. Maps, stored on a hard drive, only offer 2D views. The system uses traffic data from satellite to avoid jams, but does not offer text-to-speech for route guidance. The system offers quite a few ways to enter addresses, including the new eDestination feature, which lets you send destinations from a PC through the Lexus telematics system.
More impressive is the system's integration with Lexus' Enform apps system. Enform is very much like the Toyota Entune system. It requires either an Android phone or iPhone running the Enform app. Android phones can connect over Bluetooth, but the iPhone must be plugged into the USB port. And as I have found with recent Toyota cars, my iPhone 3GS would only connect to the system sporadically, although the iPhone 4 and 4S seem to connect consistently.
In the GS 350, the Enform apps complement the data brought in through satellite radio. Along with the aforementioned traffic information, satellite radio provides weather forecasts, gas prices, stock prices, and sports scores. Enform offers well-known apps such as Bing search, OpenTable, and Yelp. Lexus could do a better job of putting these different apps into a uniform interface, as a driver doesn't really need to differentiate between apps powered by satellite and ones that get data over a connected smartphone.
Of the Enform apps, I found Yelp the most useful. The navigation system's own stored database of restaurants and other points of interest came up short on a couple of occasions. Yelp does a very good job of noting when a restaurant or other listing has closed, and it provides much more information about each listing than the point-of-interest database. Best of all, the system let me input the address of any listing as a destination in the navigation system, directly from its Yelp page.
Enform's Yelp listings include a link to the map location, which can be used to set the destination in the navigation system.
(Credit: Josh Miller/CNET)
Enform also includes Pandora and iHeartRadio, two apps that work as audio sources for the stereo. They complement an already robust set of audio sources that includes a USB port for iPods and thumbdrives, and satellite and HD Radio. I was impressed by how the system analyzed the MP3 tracks on my 8GB thumbdrive, letting me browse by artist and album.
CNET's car came with the standard audio system, using 12 speakers and 5.1 surround processing for very good sound quality. This system is well-balanced, producing distinct sound with good depth. I was pleased with its production of background percussion instruments on some tracks, and vocals came through with a pleasant richness. Better would have been the optional Mark Levinson audio system, which uses an 835-watt amp and 17 Green Edge speakers. Toyota started deploying these premium speakers in cars last year; they're supposed to consume less power than speakers of equivalent quality.
The stereo gets some competition from the engine, which makes a delightfully loud purr with the gas pedal floored. The 3.5-liter V-6 in the GS 350 is the same as what Lexus put in the IS 350, and uses an interesting mix of port and direct injection. At low speeds, the engine uses its port-injection system, less efficient but quieter, while at higher acceleration it switches to the direct injectors, delivering more power. The extra noise of the direct injection gets swamped by the overall road noise at higher speed. Or so the thinking goes.
Other automakers are increasingly going to direct-injection engines for the increased efficiency, and dealing well with the extra engine noise. Lexus should lose the complexity of this system and just go to straight direct injection.
This engine produces 306 horsepower and 277 pound-feet of torque, generally satisfactory but at times not enough to get the nearly 2-ton GS 350 out of its own way. CNET's car came with all-wheel drive, an option that adds about $3,000 to the total price, and the F Sport package, which brings in an extensive amount of performance gear, including an adaptive suspension.
A large dial on the console changes the drive modes between Eco, Normal, Sport, and Sport Plus. In Eco mode, the accelerator is detuned, a helper designed to force slower starts, and therefore better fuel economy. The EPA estimates put the GS 350 at 19 mpg city and 26 mpg highway, but I rarely saw the average fuel economy rise above 20 mpg. After a week of driving, its average came out to 19.4 mpg. A couple of extra gears in the transmission should raise the average.
The dial behind the shifter lets you choose from Eco, Normal, Sport, and Sport Plus modes.
(Credit: Josh Miller/CNET)
The Sport and Sport Plus settings are new features for Lexus, and not as aggressive as similarly labeled settings in competitors' cars. Put the GS 350 in Sport mode and the six-speed automatic transmission holds its gears longer, and downshifts aggressively in response to braking. Put it into Sport Plus, and the suspension takes on a more rigid character. The GS 350's Sport Plus does not go quite so far as BMW's similar mode, which changes the traction control profile.
Taking advantage of the full Sport Plus setting, I enjoyed the performance of the GS 350. Letting the transmission shift automatically, it held high engine revs as I pounded the gas pedal in the straights, letting the engine sound off with its satisfying growl. Getting into the brakes ahead of a turn, I found the transmission downshifted fast, keeping the revs up so I had power through the corner.
In the turns, the GS 350 gripped well, letting me keep a good amount of speed. The all-wheel drive must have also been doing its job, helping the front wheels claw for some grip to aid the overall handling, but I couldn't really feel the effect. With the rigid suspension setting, the car tried to remain flat, but there was still slight roll, the car's weight being too much for the suspension to hold back. I never really got a feeling of rotation in the turns.
A few other problems with the GS 350's performance made themselves known, suggesting it will never be a real track competitor. Getting close to the limits in the turns, it showed understeer, losing the responsive steering character it had at moderate speeds. And the engine just did not have enough oomph to push it convincingly out of the turns. Clearing an apex with a good straightaway ahead, I slammed the gas, but even with the revs well above 5,000 the engine didn't have the power for a fast exit.
The F Sport package gives the GS 350 custom wheels. The high gap between wheel and fender is due to the all-wheel-drive system.
(Credit: Josh Miller/CNET)
In really tight corners, the car became terribly bound up by its own traction control. The system reacted to a lot of wheel turn by stripping out the power, leaving me with no response on the accelerator. That behavior may also be due to the all-wheel-drive system, as some can bind at steering lock. The all-wheel drive also has the effect of raising the car height half an inch, which will adversely affect handling.
With the dial set for Normal mode while cruising down the freeway, the GS 350 showed all the luxury I would expect from a Lexus. The ride quality is very nice, although prone to oscillation over wavy roads. Unlike typical Lexus power steering, where you can turn the wheel with one finger, the GS 350 feels more responsive and in touch with the road at all times.
To ease long-range driving, CNET's GS 350 came with radar-based adaptive cruise control. Typical for these systems, it let me choose among 3following distances. It also brought the car to a complete stop when a vehicle in front of me slowed for a right turn off a highway.
The Lane Keeping Assistant was a nice complement to the adaptive cruise control. When I let the car drift over a lane line, it first beeped, then tugged the wheel to put the car back in its lane. The car also had a blind-spot detection system, lighting up an icon in the side-view mirror when another car was obscured by the GS 350's C pillar.
In sum
Lexus offers some real cutting-edge tech in the 2013 GS 350, from Enform app integration to the driver assistance systems. CNET's car lacked some of these features, such as the head-up display and the Mark Levinson audio system, but I was impressed by what it did have. The new voice command system is also very capable, and the sheer size of the LCD is impressive.
For performance, the GS 350 with the F Sport package sits near the IS F as one of the few Lexus models that can really hold its own in the corners. Fun on a country road, it lacks the power and handling at the limits to be taken seriously on the track. Fuel economy is also well short of impressive.
Tech specs
Model 2013 Lexus GS 350
Trim AWD
Power train Direct- and port-injection 3.5-liter V-6, 6-speed automatic transmission
EPA fuel economy 19 mpg city/26 mpg highway
Observed fuel economy 19.4 mpg
Navigation Optional hard-drive-based, with integrated traffic data
Bluetooth phone support Standard, with contact list integration
Disc player MP3-compatible single-CD
MP3 player support iPod integration
Other digital audio Pandora, iHeartRadio, Bluetooth audio streaming, USB drive, auxiliary input, satellite radio, HD Radio
Audio system Standard 12-speaker system, optional Mark Levinson 835-watt 17-speaker system
Driver aids Adaptive cruise control, lane departure prevention, blind-spot detection, head-up display, rearview camera
Base price $49,450
Price as tested $60,824
Last edited by GS69; 05-01-12 at 05:01 AM.