jj14

Funny - the image on cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2013-l...contentBody;1r) shows "Editor's choice Apr 12", but they make no mention of it in the article.

Also, " The high gap between wheel and fender is due to the all-wheel-drive system." <-- no... it is bad even on the RWD too...

But I agree with their rating - excellent!

sydtoosic

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...163325425.html this dude is funny

bumski667

bravo lexus, well played!

hziemba

My 06 GS disables the radio RDS messages, like artist and title, as soon as the car starts moving. Did they fix this nanny feature in the 2013 version? That is, does the message get disabled?

Does the phone pad get disabled"

What other nanny features does it have?

LexFather

That bamboo wood is growing on me

GS69

2012 Audi A6 3.0 Quattro
vs
Lexus GS350 F-Sport

Take a good long look at the photos accompanying this article. Go ahead, these words will still be here when you get back. There’s a lot to take in, visually, when seeing the 2012 Audi A6 and 2013 Lexus GS paired up with one another. It’s clear immediately that these aren’t boring cars, gods be praised. These are extraordinary sedans. You can see it.

These 2 cars are worlds apart in terms of appearance. The Audi is stunning. The GS looks great, too, but where the A6 is graceful, sleek, and easy, the Lexus looks focused, hard, and serious. The German is more of a traditional crowd-pleaser, while the Japanese offering is going to attract a driver who means business, and wants to look the part. We’ll let you decide which is more favorable, while noting that we wouldn’t kick either of these babies out of bed.

Inside, the cars both smack of sporting luxury, but in very different ways. The Audi feels more traditional, with a grey and brown interior, with use of wood grain on the dash, doors, and tunnel. It has a country lounge feel to it and is quite a relaxed and homey space. Our tester featured the touch pad next to the gear selector, where we could actually write letters with our fingers to spell out our destination in the navigation system. The multimedia screen rising from the dash when we started the car, along with the two Bang & Olufsen speakers up front, felt particularly special.

The GS’s interior was mostly black, with brushed metal trim where the A6 had wood. It feels a bit more sporting, especially with the shine of the metal pedals. Instead of a touchscreen, the Lexus offered a version of the brand’s computer-mouse-like interface, offering feedback and resistance corresponding to what the display was showing and how it was divided. In all, it requires fewer physical buttons that you can accidentally hit with your elbow than the Audi, with most of these controls behind the gear lever. Really, deciding which is superior is a subjective matter; we’ll just say that the Audi offers a richer interface, while that of the Lexus feels more streamlined. Onward to the good part.

The GS offers sharp response, and, at least on turn-in, it eagerly takes aim at the apex of a corner. The problem, though, comes after that, as it seems to fight against its own weight a bit as it tackles the rest of the turn (despite weighing less than the Audi—we’ll chalk it up to rear-wheel drive). Pushed hard, stability control is quick to chime in and govern the fun (and the speed) that 1 could’ve carried through the curve. At high speeds, the steering can feel a bit twitchy, which hurts stability a bit. Finally, the weight of the tiller feels a bit artificial, and you can feel it trying to predict your moves and boost the wheel accordingly.

The Audi A6 doesn’t have the sharpness in steering as the Lexus, but it feels a bit more willing to rotate on turn-in. Progression through the steering wheel is smooth and easy to work with, and the car doesn’t struggle when pushed into a turn. For mot practical and enthusiastic applications, we’d trade the GS’s synaptic on-center-response for the Audi’s overall more natural, telepathic steering response—one that is good from lock to lock, and not just at certain angles of input.

Throttle response in the Audi is very sharp, and acceleration is immediate, especially lower in the rev range. Tap the right pedal, and the motor springs to life, pushing occupants back in their seats. There’s definitely a visceral moment one feels when accelerating through a gear. When it comes time to slow the car down, the brakes are also very responsive, making it easy to shed speed quickly and confidently.

The sound of the A6’s motor is a bit subdued, and it’s hard to hear it in the cabin unless you’re keeping it good and hot. What sounds do come through are very pleasant, exhilarating, and technical sounding. You hear more of the engine than the exhaust, and its voice speaks with precision. Listen closely, and the sound of the supercharger will make the hair on your arms stand up. Combined with that surging physical rush it offers in the lower part of the rev band, and the experience really comes together as a rewarding one, if not quite as sonically rich as it could be.

The GS, on the other hand, sounds more throaty and muscular. It’s a bit bolder about making its voice heard, and it booms heartily when run through the revs. The sound is good for keeping the driver engaged, and for letting him know what is going on under the hood, especially when shifting manually. This motor has presence, and will cause others to turn their heads when they hear it coming.

The nature of the Lexus’s power delivery seems like a natural fit with the noise it generates. It’s not as quick to jump forward from a stop or a crawl, but it has the endurance to wring out every horsepower high into the powerband. High-speed maneuvers are effortless, and passing slower drivers on the highway happens in precious few, very entertaining moments. The trick in driving the GS fast is keeping the revs high. It can feel very average lower in the range, and only really begins to feel fast when the motor is working very hard. The car’s 6 gears felt ample for all types of driving, but shifts were just a smidge slower. Also, after a shift, it takes just a moment for the revs to climb into that peak power area (this, however, is preferable to the confused response that Lexus’s eight-speed gearbox produces in other cars from that brand).

The GS offers very different driving styles, dialed up by the **** below the gear lever. In Sport+ the feeling through the suspension changes dramatically, and a lot of the on-center chatter that was muted in Normal and Eco is telegraphed clearly through the floorboards and the steering wheel. We’re sure the nineteen-inch F-Sport wheels on our tester had a lot to do with it, but no matter how you slice it, you won’t hear us calling this Lexus isolated, at least not when dialed into its sportiest setting.

The Audi, regardless of what drive mode is selected, just isn’t as talkative at the Lexus. You get a sense of what’s going on between tire and tarmac through the suspension, but it takes a bit of concentration to discern it. The steering remains calm and quiet, but you can hear the subtle movements through the chassis when the road surface changes.

That may not matter much in the overall scheme of things, as the A6 feels more planted to the road. While the Lexus’s stance and more artificial-feeling steering feels just a bit wobblier. This is especially true in the corners, where the Audi feels a bit more glued down, and always points where aimed.

The Audi’s transmission handles shifting very rapidly and easily. It’s easy to change 1 or 2 gears via the steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters. It has eight gears total, which helps for fuel economy (though the two cars were matched at 19/28 miles per gallon, highway/city), but feels unnecessary for performance, as so much power is available down low. Wait it out, then shift, and the tachometer needle lands pretty high in the rev range. It sounds absolutely terrific when this happens under spirited driving, but it robs us of some of the fun offered in the low revs. Oh well. This also means you can shift short, and not be stuck sucking wind.

In either car, when using manual mode, if you slack off a bit, the car will resume control for you, shifting itself at redline regardless of transmission mode. While idiot-proofing the transmission will make less experienced drivers feel more heroic when the tach needle doesn’t bounce off the redline, we prefer a car that only does what we tell it, when we tell it. You won’t find that with either of these offerings.

Neither the Audi A6 nor the Lexus GS are what we would call enthusiast cars. They both do a good job, though, of bringing a lot of that sports appeal with them as they bridge the gap between sports sedan and luxury barges. They serve as great ways to get from place to place quickly, and in a way that feels comfortable, classy and slick. Both of these cars serve that purpose especially well.

But since who we are dictates that we’re looking for a car that’s the most entertaining, we feel compelled to call the Audi A6 the superior way to get from one place to another very quickly. A supercharger and all-wheel drive will do that. An all-wheel drive version of the GS is available, but the Audi’s controls simply feel more natural and responsive when pushed toward their limits. We know there are those out there who will feel differently; we think a lot of people are really going to love this GS, and that makes us glad, because it deserves a lot of appreciation as well.

Each car feels very special in its own way. Gaze upon them yet again. We can’t promise that you, gentle reader, will like 1 more than another, that you’ll share our taste in driving style, accommodations, appearance, or appreciate our hell-bent favoring of involvement (the last 1 there being just enough to to tip the scales in the A6’s direction, as far as we’re concerned).

We can promise you, though, that both vehicles are brimming with personality. Get behind the wheel of either 1, and take it for a drive on your favorite roads, be they curvy, wide-open, steep, scenic, fresh, or decaying. Either car will provide you with a unique driving experience you won’t soon forget.

2013 Lexus GS350 F-Sport
Engine: V-6, 3.5 liters, 24v
Output: 306 hp/277 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.7 sec
Top Speed: 142 mph
Weight: 3795 lb
Base Price: $52,590
Price As Tested: $55,869

2012 Audi A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro
Engine: Supercharged V6, 3.0 liters, 24v
Output: 310 hp/325 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.3 sec
Top Speed: 130 mph
Weight: 4045 lb
Base Price: $49,900
Price As Tested: $67,430

Mr. Burns

Here's the thing with the press and German cars. They take an Audi A6 specced out with full LED lights, AWD, huge wheels and all the gadgets resulting in an $11,561 premium over the GS they're comparing it to and generally write in the Audi's favor. The average reader reads this and concludes that the German cars are still the ones to beat. For $11,561 more?

No.

$67,430 would have bought a very nicely optioned GS450h, with tons more low end torque, full LED lights, beautiful bamboo interior, and much better fuel economy (and performance). But then the A6 wouldn't look so hot in comparison.

natnut

The difference between the base price and the as-tested price of the A6($11,561) makes me suspect that it has the Sports Differential and Handling Package.

And I'm betting that the GS did not come with DRS, considering the as-tested price. The DRS would have evened things up in the handling stakes. Many have described a DRS-equipped GS F-Sport's cornering and stability "as if it were on rails."

vednam

Guys, we just tested the GS350 F Sport yesterday, and the 535i and A6 today.

The GS has an acceptible front end, however bland at the rear quarter. I'm not so sure it looks that similar to a Sonata from another thread, and not sure if the GS took off the Sonata either for that matter; however both cars have bland rear styling. The dash is rather bland too. The dash looks like a direct take from a 5 Series, and the jog dial is a direct take off a 5 Series too, while the center console forearm rest is a direct take of an E Class. But then the A6's sat nav is a direct take from the 2007 C Class Mercedes.

The front is fine for space. However the rear is the tighest for space amongst between the GS and the three Germans.
It does have the highest rear seat squab, however the poorest foot room, and the easily the least leg and the least shoulder room. The smaller size of the GS is quite noticeable.
Bootwise, the GS is a fraction larger than the three Germans thanks too the highest waist line, the highest rear parcel shelf, the highest boot lid, and the least tapered sides on the rear overhang.

However, owing to the highest waist line, and consequently the highest rear parcel shelf, the GS has easily the most poor forward and all round visibility. You really need to rely on the rear vision camera and the auto-dipping wing mirrors to reverse the GS. The Germans are far airier in visibility.

The 3.5 in the GS350 is a total delight. A bit rougher and louder than my friend's old third generation GS300. However the 3.5 is much smoother and quieter than the GS250 2.5 that I drove on business in Singapore last week. The 2.5 and 3.5 are totally different in refinement. The 2.5 in Singapore is loud and coarse. The 3.5 is much smoother and quieter. The dealer said that the 2.5 has some voice box - whatever it is, they should get rid of it. The 3.5 is so much smoother and quieter. The 3.5 is also a delight compared to the three Germans, although the A6 Turbo Diesel and the A6 3.0 Supercharged were both even faster than the GS350 and the 535i. However I don't like diesels or superchargers, nor the 535i's turbo, so the GS350's engine is still my fav.

The GS350 F Sport's has a smaller and thicker rim than my friend's old third gen GS. It has more feel to the steering, and sharper. It rides beautifully with longer suspension travel. It handles more sharply than both the 535i and A6. Yet it still rides better than both of them. They really got the F Sport's chassis worked out. The GS was easily the quietest car for refinement.

There are the facts. So in the end, it's still in the air for me and my two friends. My two friend's are leaning towards the 535i, or the A6 Turbo Diesel. For me, it's still in the air. Not sure which way to go. Both the F Sport and the 535i have advantages and disadvantages.
The Beamer and Audi are stronger on styling, space, and visibility, and good enough everywhere else. The F Sport has a great engine, chassis, and ride, but falls short on styling, space and visibility. The rear passenger compartment space is very important for me; the A6 is easily the best here. Just depends on what's more important for you really. Either styling, space and visibility, or mechanical engine, chassis and refinement? I'll let this sit for now. Time will decide for me. I could always wait for the mid life update.

sydtoosic

IMO..... Take it or leave it. either you like it or you don't , it's not rocket science. i tested the MB, BMW and AUDI. inside and out the GSF-SPORT was the last car i tested. guess what,,,,,,,, my decision was instant, it didn't take me days weeks months. when i got out of the GS after test driving was when i made my decision. guess what i picked? check the SIG.

Mr. Burns

Space and visibility is where theoretically the ES is supposed to come in.






Jury is still out on how good that car is, but they claim it's good enough to run with the A6, E-class, etc...

vednam

I just read in detail GS69's long article posted above. GS69, you're a very good driver. You've had a lot of test track experience I presume? Where we can really push the car to its limits. I have never been on a test track before. I suspect that if a skilled driver were to push the car to its limits, then full time four wheel drive will be able to deliver power earlier, even on entry, and combined with the extra linear acceleration, the A6 3.0 Supercharged AWD will be able to deliver faster lap times then the GS350 F Sport. However, the GS F Sport's atheletic abilities is good enough for my average ability.

http://www.windingroad.com/photos/ga...gs350-f-sport/ . Thanks for the photographs you provided also. At first I thought a silver GS was a bit ordinary. A red GS also seemed ordinary in the rear because the red tail light lenses could not stand out from the red paintwork. But now I see the F Sport in black, I'm beginning to like it. The black paintwork allows the F Sport's red tail light lenses to stand out. Also, in the photos, the Audi's front and rear lights slope downwards, giving a sad look; while the F Sport's front and rear lights slope upwards giving a happier smiling look. I also find that the 535 and E350 don't look that great either. And none of them look that great in the inside either. I think all these cars could do with improvement to their outside and inside styling. So the GS is beginning to grow on me.

As for rear passenger space, I think I'll just have to accept it. All Lexus models from IS, to GS to LS are smaller tahn their German counterparts like the S class, 7 series and A8. It's a good thing I don't really transport adults in the rear for now anyway.

And as to the visibility, the F Sport has the highest rear parcel shelf and the highest rear boot deck, hence restricted rear visibility. And it has the highest waist line along the side too. Maybe the highest dashboard at the front too. Indeed the F Sport glass looks shallower to the Germans. I think I'm just going to have to accept this too, and just use the rear vision camera, the automatic dipping wing mirrors, and the lane change warning sensors to drive. I can accept the GS visibility.

So the GS is beginning to win me over. I think at the middle life update, and the GS could be really good, fixing up or refining a few of those styling cues. I read the thread below complaining about the "Rear Styling", but I thnk the key to understanding here is that the E350 and the 535, and the A6 don't look that good either. Outside or inside. None of them look that good. I actually thought the old E, the old 5 and the old A6 were actually more attractive than their current brethrens; exterior and interior. Thus, the GS isn't that bad after all in this present company. The GS's space and visibility, I'm beginning to just accept it.

spwolf

you will get used to it... i just got IS220d and at first it was hell to park, after few days it is like any other car.
as to the back, if you have kids? thats fine... more than fine... IS220d has a lot less space and it is perfect for kids. my kids love it.

GS69

AsiaOne: Lexus GS250

You could say that the new Lexus GS, with its distinctive spindle grille and arrowhead lamps, has finally come a full circle - stylistically at least. When Lexus first introduced this mid-sized sedan 2 decades ago, it bore the stamp of the legendary Italian master designer Giugiaro. But by the 2nd and 3rd generations, the GS line was losing its visual impact and started looking like just another ordinary Japanese saloon.

Fortunately, the 4th-generation car has re-discovered its mojo and the new GS is cool once again.

In fact, the new styling is nothing short of revolutionary as the car embodies the latest development of the Lexus L-finesse design philosophy.

While the proportions and platform are brand new, the footprint is virtually unchanged - the GS is still 4,850 mm long with a 2,850 mm wheelbase. But for improved vehicle dynamics, the front overhang is 10 mm shorter and both the front and rear track are wider.

The smallest engine has also been downsized in keeping with the more eco-friendly times. There is still a GS350 and a GS Hybrid but the entry-level variant is now the GS250 with a 2.5-litre V6 engine - not like the previous GS300 with a 3.0-litre V6.

The GS250 with its 209 hp and 253 Nm delivered to the rear wheels via a 6-speed automatic gearbox is a familiar Lexus powertrain. But what is novel is the high level of equipment. Apart from the LED running lights, air-conditioned front seats, parking assist system with rear view camera and 10 airbags (front, knee, front side, rear side and curtain), the GS250 also has a blind spot indicator as standard.

For the towkay in the back, the rear centre armrest has integrated controls for the audio and air-con and more importantly, the front passenger seat in front of him can be controlled with easily accessed buttons on the side.

There are 4 variants of the GS250 - basic, Premium, Luxury and F-Sport - with the last 3 adding anything from a head up display and Mark Levinson audio system, to a "nanoe" moisturing air-con system and adaptive variable suspension.

The last 1 accentuates the newfound agility of the GS with its 4 driving modes. This mid-sized Lexus used to be a comfortable and refined executive express but now it is also fun to drive. The steering is more accurate with improved feedback and the GS250 changes direction more enthusiastically - even the headroom for taller drivers is better.

What helps is the increased rigidity of the new GS body, as well as its lightened suspension components.

Perhaps the most surprising aspect of all is that the GS250 does not feel as underpowered as it sounds. With kerb weight of 1,640 kg, it is a mere 10 kg less than the GS350. But performance is credible, especially when the gearbox is manually changed using the steering wheel-mounted shift paddles.

As with all Lexi, though, the GS250's unique selling point is still its ride comfort and calm cabin ambience. This quiet performer's interior materials and features also look and feel more luxurious, such as the understated aluminium analogue clock and the world's biggest colour display at 12.3 inches. The new GS has redefined the Lexus brand.

Lexus GS250
Price:$254,000 (with COE)
Engine: 2,500cc V6
Transmission: 6-speed automatic
Max Power: 209 hp @ 6,400 rpm
Max Torque: 253 Nm @ 4,800 rpm
0-100kmh: 8.6 secs
Top speed: 225 kmh
CO2 emissions: 215 g/km
Distributor: Distributor Borneo Motors 6631 1388

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Still waiting for it to grow on me.

Maybe I should drive one.