Official GS-F discussion
09-05-13, 01:38 PM
#481
Knowing Lexus it will definitely be underpowered compared to other vehicles in the same segment. I know it's cost effective to use the same engine, but the GS- F should have more power than the RC-F (at least 500 hp). You don't see BMW having the same power ratings for the M4 & M5. 
09-05-13, 02:22 PM
#482
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Agreed
Extra body kit and four tailpipes on a 4GS is real amazing.
HOWEVER
having only 465 HP does not exude along of confidence in the vehicle segment that it's competing in.
With that kind of power output range, it seems that it's competing in a lower playing field filled with the likes of:
1) Chevrolet SS (420 horsepower via 6.2 liter naturally-aspirated V8)
2) Chrysler 300C SRT-8 (470 horsepower via 6.4 liter HEMI V8)
It's like saying: "It has the body of something that can match an Audi RS6...............but only has an engine that competes with an S6."
Point is simple: It needs AT LEAST 500 horsepower if you want it to compete on a playing field of the Audi RS6, BMW M5, MB E63 AMG and Jaguar XF-R
Otherwise, if it falls short, then it's rather pointless that this car should be called a "GS-F"............and then you might as well just call it a "GS460 F-sport" or a "GS500 F-sport"
Just saying....
Extra body kit and four tailpipes on a 4GS is real amazing.
HOWEVER
having only 465 HP does not exude along of confidence in the vehicle segment that it's competing in.
With that kind of power output range, it seems that it's competing in a lower playing field filled with the likes of:
1) Chevrolet SS (420 horsepower via 6.2 liter naturally-aspirated V8)
2) Chrysler 300C SRT-8 (470 horsepower via 6.4 liter HEMI V8)
It's like saying: "It has the body of something that can match an Audi RS6...............but only has an engine that competes with an S6."
Point is simple: It needs AT LEAST 500 horsepower if you want it to compete on a playing field of the Audi RS6, BMW M5, MB E63 AMG and Jaguar XF-R
Otherwise, if it falls short, then it's rather pointless that this car should be called a "GS-F"............and then you might as well just call it a "GS460 F-sport" or a "GS500 F-sport"
Just saying....
Calling it the GS500 F-Sport sounds good to me.
Last edited by ydooby; 09-05-13 at 02:31 PM.
09-05-13, 02:24 PM
#483
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09-05-13, 02:33 PM
#484
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Well I'll be one happy F owner cheapening the brand and I guess you can talk bad about me on the internet next year.
09-05-13, 02:49 PM
#485
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Is logical reasoning too much for you? I did not say the GS-F would cheapen the F badge period; I'm saying the GS-F would cheapen the F badge IF it's only barely matching the 550i M-Sport and the S6 as it's seemingly shaping up to be right now. It simply can't be too far from the M5 and the RS6 if Lexus intends the F brand to be mentioned in the same breadth as the M, the AMG, the RS and the likes. It's not just me who's saying this as many in this thread have already expressed the same sentiment. We all want the wicked 1998 to come again, and to do that Lexus needs to not only match the competition but exceed them, and 465hp simply isn't going to cut it in this segment.
Last edited by ydooby; 09-05-13 at 02:53 PM.
09-05-13, 02:59 PM
#487
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Yes then call it the GS500 F-Sport and return the regular 4GS line the V8 it deserved in the first place. Develop a true, worthy GS-F as the next step. Don't try to jump 2 steps but end up falling short.
Last edited by ydooby; 09-05-13 at 03:07 PM.
09-05-13, 03:26 PM
#488
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Is logical reasoning too much for you? I did not say the GS-F would cheapen the F badge period; I'm saying the GS-F would cheapen the F badge IF it's only barely matching the 550i M-Sport and the S6 as it's seemingly shaping up to be right now. It simply can't be too far from the M5 and the RS6 if Lexus intends the F brand to be mentioned in the same breadth as the M, the AMG, the RS and the likes. It's not just me who's saying this as many in this thread have already expressed the same sentiment. We all want the wicked 1998 to come again, and to do that Lexus needs to not only match the competition but exceed them, and 465hp simply isn't going to cut it in this segment.
Do you know that Rome was not built in a day? In 2013 people are beating off to 500/550/650hp AMG/M cars and forgetting it took them decades to get to this point. It wasn't an overnight process, nor is the Lexus F program. So if its low so be it, especially since Lexus new sporting rides seem to out handle and have more drivers feedback than the others even if they are slightly slower.
Did you miss when the "underpowered" 420hp S7 spanked the M5 and E63 in a comparison? How about that underpowered Boxster/Cayman or FRS/BRZ? They are getting rave reviews though they may not be the most powerful.
Sure peak HP ratings sell and are a buying point. We should be happy that after 20 years, a proper GS F is coming. Some of us remember the 225hp GS 300 and its humble beginings and gasp, some of us have owned the GS for quite sometimes.
Its utterly amazing to me there are so many people bashing the car based on their views off peak horsepower ratings only.
09-05-13, 03:50 PM
#489
Exactly, look at it from the bottom up instead of from the top. All the 4GS have right now is a 300 hp V6, I am grateful just for having a V8, let alone a 465 hp one.
I agree it is cooler if you call it a GS500 F-Sport with 465 hp, then it is overachieving. But Lexus have to start somewhere, so this 1st GS-F may start weaker with a 465 hp, the next gen might come with TT and 550 hp.
I agree it is cooler if you call it a GS500 F-Sport with 465 hp, then it is overachieving. But Lexus have to start somewhere, so this 1st GS-F may start weaker with a 465 hp, the next gen might come with TT and 550 hp.
09-05-13, 03:55 PM
#490
I'm going to ignore your first sentence.
Do you know that Rome was not built in a day? In 2013 people are beating off to 500/550/650hp AMG/M cars and forgetting it took them decades to get to this point. It wasn't an overnight process, nor is the Lexus F program. So if its low so be it, especially since Lexus new sporting rides seem to out handle and have more drivers feedback than the others even if they are slightly slower.
Did you miss when the "underpowered" 420hp S7 spanked the M5 and E63 in a comparison? How about that underpowered Boxster/Cayman or FRS/BRZ? They are getting rave reviews though they may not be the most powerful.
Sure peak HP ratings sell and are a buying point. We should be happy that after 20 years, a proper GS F is coming. Some of us remember the 225hp GS 300 and its humble beginings and gasp, some of us have owned the GS for quite sometimes.
Its utterly amazing to me there are so many people bashing the car based on their views off peak horsepower ratings only.
Do you know that Rome was not built in a day? In 2013 people are beating off to 500/550/650hp AMG/M cars and forgetting it took them decades to get to this point. It wasn't an overnight process, nor is the Lexus F program. So if its low so be it, especially since Lexus new sporting rides seem to out handle and have more drivers feedback than the others even if they are slightly slower.
Did you miss when the "underpowered" 420hp S7 spanked the M5 and E63 in a comparison? How about that underpowered Boxster/Cayman or FRS/BRZ? They are getting rave reviews though they may not be the most powerful.
Sure peak HP ratings sell and are a buying point. We should be happy that after 20 years, a proper GS F is coming. Some of us remember the 225hp GS 300 and its humble beginings and gasp, some of us have owned the GS for quite sometimes.
Its utterly amazing to me there are so many people bashing the car based on their views off peak horsepower ratings only.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
09-05-13, 04:16 PM
#491
I am with you, from my memory (not going to look up facts to save time), the very 1st factory AMG E55 and S55 only got 350 hp or so, if anything Lexus is introducing performance model much quicker then AMG and M, it took them many decades to get to where they are right now.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
09-05-13, 04:25 PM
#492
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I am with you, from my memory (not going to look up facts to save time), the very 1st factory AMG E55 and S55 only got 350 hp or so, if anything Lexus is introducing performance model much quicker then AMG and M, it took them many decades to get to where they are right now.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
Last edited by ydooby; 09-05-13 at 04:29 PM.
09-05-13, 05:39 PM
#493
I am with you, from my memory (not going to look up facts to save time), the very 1st factory AMG E55 and S55 only got 350 hp or so, if anything Lexus is introducing performance model much quicker then AMG and M, it took them many decades to get to where they are right now.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
every time i bring up the isf as example it quiets down.
but honestly now. i am just as doubtful as the next guy about lexus having 500+hp on the gsf. and to certain extend i can see about "it takes time". but doesn't mean it's a good strategy and risk trashing the hard-built F badge?
see, people keep saying about how the s6/s7 stacks against the m5 and e63. sure yeah performance wise it does seem like those cars are awesome. however when it comes to badging, prestige status, and presence, what happens? i don't think they stack that well against the m5 and e63. not like what an rs6/rs7 would be. i am just afraid that will happen to lexus as well, and we know people get harsher on lexus (compared to audi) overall.
sure it's possible that reviews on the gsf will be awesome against the m5 and e63, and that will definitely be a plus as always. but look at the regular GS and IS, reviews are awesome, how's the market? keep in mind they already have comparable engine configs. i am in no way trying to down play lexus and what they have done (read my reviews), but i am just cautious on how little things can make it so much steeper for lexus to climb.
09-05-13, 05:48 PM
#494
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I am with you, from my memory (not going to look up facts to save time), the very 1st factory AMG E55 and S55 only got 350 hp or so, if anything Lexus is introducing performance model much quicker then AMG and M, it took them many decades to get to where they are right now.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
It is crazy to expect Lexus to go straight to a 550 hp powertrain on the very 1st GS-F. Just think the LFA only had 560 hp just a few years ago.
AMG really came around in 1993 or so with the C36 I believe..which became the C43..they only had ONE MODEL. Then Benz added the AMG "SPORT" package to their cars. Sound familiar?
The 2nd model was the 1999 E55 which made 349hp. Well the Jag XJR made 370 and the M5 394. The E55 wasn't clowned for not being a proper super sedan, it was welcomed.
Since that time they expanded AMG greatly but look, it took 2 decades to do so.
Lexus moves slow, we know this, in comparison to the Germans. While the GS F might be down on power, it just may offer the best balance as those 550hp cars haven't exactly gotten rave mind blowing reviews.
The LFA was not about peak power, it was also down compared to many supercars and it got rave reviews for being one of the best drives of all time.
09-05-13, 05:53 PM
#495
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didn't take lexus much time to get the isf to have the same power as m3 did they?
every time i bring up the isf as example it quiets down.
but honestly now. i am just as doubtful as the next guy about lexus having 500+hp on the gsf. and to certain extend i can see about "it takes time". but doesn't mean it's a good strategy and risk trashing the hard-built F badge?
see, people keep saying about how the s6/s7 stacks against the m5 and e63. sure yeah performance wise it does seem like those cars are awesome. however when it comes to badging, prestige status, and presence, what happens? i don't think they stack that well against the m5 and e63. not like what an rs6/rs7 would be. i am just afraid that will happen to lexus as well, and we know people get harsher on lexus (compared to audi) overall.
sure it's possible that reviews on the gsf will be awesome against the m5 and e63, and that will definitely be a plus as always. but look at the regular GS and IS, reviews are awesome, how's the market? keep in mind they already have comparable engine configs. i am in no way trying to down play lexus and what they have done (read my reviews), but i am just cautious on how little things can make it so much steeper for lexus to climb.
every time i bring up the isf as example it quiets down.
but honestly now. i am just as doubtful as the next guy about lexus having 500+hp on the gsf. and to certain extend i can see about "it takes time". but doesn't mean it's a good strategy and risk trashing the hard-built F badge?
see, people keep saying about how the s6/s7 stacks against the m5 and e63. sure yeah performance wise it does seem like those cars are awesome. however when it comes to badging, prestige status, and presence, what happens? i don't think they stack that well against the m5 and e63. not like what an rs6/rs7 would be. i am just afraid that will happen to lexus as well, and we know people get harsher on lexus (compared to audi) overall.
sure it's possible that reviews on the gsf will be awesome against the m5 and e63, and that will definitely be a plus as always. but look at the regular GS and IS, reviews are awesome, how's the market? keep in mind they already have comparable engine configs. i am in no way trying to down play lexus and what they have done (read my reviews), but i am just cautious on how little things can make it so much steeper for lexus to climb.
So really if these same people are going to bash a car like the LFA, the GS F doesn't stand a chance.
I completely agree with the badge/prestige thing and bragging rights. However Lexus is taking steps in the right direction.
Hell look at the GS F-sport. Here it is the best handling in class, a drivers car, and people are super quiet about it. Now its about rear seat room and trunk hinges.
